Members modulusman Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Originally Posted by tlbonehead Good luck! I played twice during the week and the bass player/keyboardist needed the weekend off. BTW, tell him to get some lighter amps for gosh sakes! I'm trying to talk him into some Peavey IPRs. The amps he has now are a pair ofTapco juices and a carver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jimiv Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by tlbonehead Powered = less to plug in? Are your speakers wireless? Think about it....it will eventually come to you. Or, not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by jimiv Think about it....it will eventually come to you. Or, not. Thought about it. If you have a light system , you have power at the FOH ,,, no extra work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by modulusman I'm trying to talk him into some Peavey IPRs. The amps he has now are a pair ofTapco juices and a carver. good choice, or the Crest ProLites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by TIMKEYS Thought about it. If you have a light system , you have power at the FOH ,,, no extra work. 2 cables instead of 1 for every powered cab. I don't know how doubling cable = less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by TIMKEYS Thought about it. If you have a light system , you have power at the FOH ,,, no extra work. We still get noise occasionally with all LED stuff. So we still keep sound/lighting power separate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jimiv Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Jesus, you guys can be mind-numbing sometimes. Let me do some splainin.... Ok, with MY system which used to be passive we bring three power amps (one is back-up) run {censored} between them, the board, crossover and the FOH passive mains and passive monitors. Now, mains and monitors are powered. Run each to power source and one line out from board to speakers/mains. For MY system and MY experience with MY previous passive system, now it is less {censored} to plug in and easier set-up/breakdown. Now, I have to get to the venue and plug in my POWERED mains and monitors which I highly recommend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jimiv Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by tlbonehead We still get noise occasionally with all LED stuff. So we still keep sound/lighting power separate. Always run lights from different source than sound. Some places though it isn't possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by tlbonehead 2 cables instead of 1 for every powered cab. I don't know how doubling cable = less. Well, in my case, it's an XLR from the snake to each sub, and then a small XLR to jump from the subs to the mains. And two power cables that drop from each cab to the power strip below. Not much work. The passive system was two XLRs per side running from the snake to the power amps, and then two speakers cables per side running from the power amps to the speakers. I count the same number of cables either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by jimiv Jesus, you guys can be mind-numbing sometimes. Let me do some splainin.... Ok, with MY system which used to be passive we bring three power amps (one is back-up) run {censored} between them, the board, crossover and the FOH passive mains and passive monitors. Now, mains and monitors are powered. Run each to power source and one line out from board to speakers/mains. For MY system and MY experience with MY previous passive system, now it is less {censored} to plug in and easier set-up/breakdown. Now, I have to get to the venue and plug in my POWERED mains and monitors which I highly recommend. well golly, you had absolutely no foresight on simplifying your old system? My old passive system had a bottom rack with 4 power amp for mains and subs, along with powerstrip, crossover, and main EQ. Top rack had mixer on top, and processor, monitor amp and EQ, and CD player in the bottom section. For setup, I had to connect power to both racks and connect 2 cables to connect the racks together. Then run speaker leads. This was a 9K + wattage system when using all speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by guido61 Well, in my case, it's an XLR from the snake to each sub, and then a small XLR to jump from the subs to the mains. And two power cables that drop from each cab to the power strip below. Not much work. The passive system was two XLRs per side running from the snake to the power amps, and then two speakers cables per side running from the power amps to the speakers. I count the same number of cables either way. no monitors, or IEMs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by tlbonehead no monitors, or IEMs? IEMs. But when we used floor monitors it was about the same six-of-one/half-a-dozen-of-the-other deal too. Especially since we ran 4 monitor sends. It required 4 XLRs to from the snake to the amps and 4 speaker cables to the monitors with passive vs. 4 XLRs from the snake to the speakers and 4 power cables. 8 cables either way. And more simple and cleaner with actives because there wasn't this box with all these cables running in and out of it and being a big mishmash on the side of the stage that'd I'd seemingly spend 1/2 an hour every gig twisted around sideways with a flashlight in my mouth trying to trace down some 'problem' or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by tlbonehead can also be used for bass, guitar, even keys, if any of them use a mixer, preamp, or effects processor. Or if just the power section died in a head of combo. And a big ol' heavy analog power amp is great for cooking up some grilled cheese sandwiches too! I've never used an extra power amp to fill in for a failed guitar amp, but I suppose some people do have systems where this could work. But seriously, I've spent FAR more time TALKING about system fails just TODAY than I've spent dealing with them in the 5-6 years since we went all active. And probably even before with the old passive system as well. Does your gear really fail you that often that this is really such a big concern for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by guido61 And a big ol' heavy analog power amp is great for cooking up some grilled cheese sandwiches too! I've never used an extra power amp to fill in for a failed guitar amp, but I suppose some people do have systems where this could work. But seriously, I've spent FAR more time TALKING about system fails just TODAY than I've spent dealing with them in the 5-6 years since we went all active. And probably even before with the old passive system as well. Does your gear really fail you that often that this is really such a big concern for you? My spare power amp weighs about 14lbs.And, no, a couple drivers here or there over the years but I haven't lost a power amp in my last 1000 gigs or so. A mixer a couple times, when I was stupid enough to trust a Behringer, but that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jimiv Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Speaking of fails, my mesa-boogie simul 2:90 crapped out on me at sound check at our Nov 3 gig. This was the biggest wedding gig we had booked this year last Nov 3rd. We even rented additional lighting. Large stage, big room. Great pay and lots of potential future clients and our first gig with a high profile wedding planner. Switched on, power lights came on.....nothing, no sound nothing. What a {censored}ty feeling. I use a little crate power block for back-up but only used it one other time a long while ago. I don't think anyone really noticed, but I was so bummed after the gig because my tone sucked so bad. Sounded so digitized out of that block. I'm still sorta bummed when I think of it. Thanks for reminding me of it btw. Hahahaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by tlbonehead My spare power amp weighs about 14lbs.And, no, a couple drivers here or there over the years but I haven't lost a power amp in my last 1000 gigs or so. A mixer a couple times, when I was stupid enough to trust a Behringer, but that's about it. Yeah, that's why I think all this talk about "failure" is sort of off the mark. Buy decent gear--either active or passive, and you shouldn't really have to worry about failure too much. Except, as I said at the outset, that passive gear almost certainly has a higher failure rate due to consumer mis-use. Just ask the speaker re-cone guys about how much less work they have these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by jimiv Speaking of fails, my mesa-boogie simul 2:90 crapped out on me at sound check at our Nov 3 gig. This was the biggest wedding gig we had booked this year last Nov 3rd. We even rented additional lighting. Large stage, big room. Great pay and lots of potential future clients and our first gig with a high profile wedding planner. Switched on, power lights came on.....nothing, no sound nothing. What a {censored}ty feeling. I use a little crate power block for back-up but only used it one other time a long while ago. I don't think anyone really noticed, but I was so bummed after the gig because my tone sucked so bad. Sounded so digitized out of that block. I'm still sorta bummed when I think of it. Thanks for reminding me of it btw. Hahahaha. Yeah, we've had far more problems with backline gear failing that active PA gear. Luckily we keep a certain degree of 'backup' gear too, but, like you, most of it sucks. I felt good about our PRX system last summer though when we did an outdoor gig in 100-degree heat for 2 days for a Tough Mudder event. Sun was beating right down on them and I thought for sure they'd shut down or worse from overheating. But they barreled through like champs. Wish I could say the same about the melting musicians onstage.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by tlbonehead man, that would suck! Our contract was with a different group who was renting the hall. Good thing we mentioned coming back to load out to the manager of the hall. He was going to be gone until the Tuesday, which really would have put us in a bind. But it all worked out and we will make sure to confirm the Sunday load out next year. Originally Posted by SpaceNorman Just curious ... how long does it take you to tear down. Both of my "big" projects (one is a 6 piece group, the other an 8 piece group) are usually packed and loaded out in a hair under an hour from the time the last note ends. In both of my scenarios - there's a significant keyboard rig, a full drum kit, a full PA (2 sub, 2 main, 4 monitor wedges, amp rack, FOH rack .. and all the cabling...) - as well as lights (a stand and a simple "4 bar" of lights on each side of the stage). It's rare that the wait staff isn't still picking up bottles and cleaning as we're walking out with the last piece of gear. Getting it done that fast means that we all walk of the stage after the final tune - take a minute or so to take a leak - and then get straight to tearing down. Our vocalists (female in one project, male in the other) are the only members of the band that do any "smoozing" during teardown (that's by design ... their job is to keep the patrons occupied so the rest of us can tear down our gear). Everybody approaches teardown and loadout with a sense of urgency. True. We are a typical setup. 2 tops 2 subs 5 monitors, centerfill Mixer 4 - 6 Power amps Lights 2 guitars Bass Drums Keys 4 vocal mics 2 wireless mics Lights I'm a bit anal with the cords, I over/under to a specific size so they fit in the cable trunks. We tear down our instruments, then after the drums are done they lower the lights, take then off and into the box, truss down and apart, stands down Then at the same time someone helps pull cords, out into a straight line do I can over under. Also have to take down the mixer, the power amps, the computer. It does take some doing. Load out the next day goes pretty quick. I quarterback the pack and everyone brings me the gear in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members New Trail Posted December 17, 2012 Members Share Posted December 17, 2012 OP, please let us know what you quoted the gig for, if you got it, and, if so, how it went! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members New Trail Posted December 20, 2012 Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 Any news?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by StratGuy22 I'm a bit anal with the cords, I over/under to a specific size so they fit in the cable trunks. ...someone helps pull cords, out into a straight line do I can over under. We handle the cords thing a little differently. My FOH rack is pretty much 100% prewired. It's a slant rack - with a MixWiz mounted on the slant, all our signal processing on the vertical - with roughly 4u of unused space at the bottom of the rack. I use two 30' Hosa Little Bro' 8 channel snakes - one of which gets placed at the rear of the stage to host all backline connections and one that gets placed at the front of the stage to host all frontline connections. I also have an 8 channel patch snake to carry all the FOH/Monitor outputs to the amp rack. The three snakes are 100% prewired within the FOH rack - and "live" coiled in the bottom of the rack during transport and storage. The arrangement I have with my bandmates is simple. I provide all the PA from the "drop box" back. Each band member is responsible for providing their own microphones (and/or DI boxes), mic stands and whatever cabling they need to connect whatever they need amplified (i.e. vocal mic, instrument) to their assigned input(s) on the drop box(s). Because of the physical location of the drop boxes - a single 20' mic cable is all that's needed to connect ANY mic or DI to the PA. Each band member is responsible for setting up their own gear - including patching it into the drop box during setup - as well as packing, transporting and storing their own MICs, cables and stands when we tear down. At setup time - I simply open the back of FOH rack, extend the snakes - placing the drop boxes in the appropriate place on stage - and making the patch snake connections into the back of the amp rack. When it's time to tear down - I disconnect everything from the two drop boxes, disconnect the patch snake from the amp rack - coil the snakes for storage in the bottom of the FOH rack - and close the door. Everybody deals with their mic cables as they see fit. I have a dozen or so mic cables in my case - but only use them if/when somebody forgets a cable or the rare occasion that a single 20' mic cable isn't quite long enough to reach the drop box. Since the lead vocalist only has a single mic to deal with - he's been assigned the task of dealing with the speaker cables. He runs them from the Amp rack to the speakers during setup - and then for disconnecting them from the speakers, then coiling and packing them during teardown. The result of all this means that instead of one guy dealing with a whole band's worth of individual mic cables - each bandmate deals with the 1 or 2 mic cables they use. While they're dealing with their stuff - I've simply got 3 snake cables to coil and store. The way our division of labor works out - we virtually NEVER find ourselves with guys standing around waiting for somebody else to finish packing PA stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted December 25, 2012 Members Share Posted December 25, 2012 we are pretty low tech on set up and tear down. We have two ATA road cases. All the power supply stuff in one. All the signal stuff in the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted December 25, 2012 Members Share Posted December 25, 2012 Originally Posted by SpaceNorman We handle the cords thing a little differently. My FOH rack is pretty much 100% prewired. It's a slant rack - with a MixWiz mounted on the slant, all our signal processing on the vertical - with roughly 4u of unused space at the bottom of the rack. I use two 30' Hosa Little Bro' 8 channel snakes - one of which gets placed at the rear of the stage to host all backline connections and one that gets placed at the front of the stage to host all frontline connections. I also have an 8 channel patch snake to carry all the FOH/Monitor outputs to the amp rack. The three snakes are 100% prewired within the FOH rack - and "live" coiled in the bottom of the rack during transport and storage. Nice. I'm a I one man show, providing sound for others. So I have all my poweramps, wireless mic receivers etc all in their own cases. Then I can also mix and match, depending on what the gig requires. I do carry a spare FOH & Monitor amp to my gigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members New Trail Posted December 25, 2012 Members Share Posted December 25, 2012 Whassup?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members race81 Posted December 26, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 26, 2012 Im having a meeting with the powers that be on new years eve at our gig.....Im gonna tell em $1200, that will cover our expenses and we will still make a little better cash than a normal gig. I will let ya know as soon as I know.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.