Members GAS Man Posted March 18, 2015 Members Share Posted March 18, 2015 I agree with a lot of the replies here, pickups especially have a significant contribution. Possibly lipstick pickups even having more of that quality. But the one thing I'd add is that I believe the sound also comes partly from the significant amount of routing done for the pickups (some have what is referred to as the "swimming pool rout") and well as the routing for the tremolo. I've read that the tremolo routing creates a bit of internal reverb to a strat's tone. I believe I'm quoting Eric J there. Then you find other models like the Robert Cray Strat that use a hard tail bridge and get a different tone by eliminating that routing. The p'ups essentially floating on the plastic pg probably contributes a bit too. Whatever the points or debates would be as to the the "why" I defintely agree with the O.P. and think "glassy" is a useful decription of Strat tone. But I do own enough Strats to where I'm aware of how deep, shallow, dark or bright they may sound based on the woods and pickups. I've got 2 with ash bodies, but with rather different amounts of hefts to them. Also of course have a few that are alder. Another two that have basswood bodies. They all have their variations in tones, but usually "glassy" can be heard, especially in the bridge + middle p'up position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted March 19, 2015 Members Share Posted March 19, 2015 it occurs to me that a Tele on the neck will also do it. No wammy and scooped-er but same effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members t_e_l_e Posted March 19, 2015 Members Share Posted March 19, 2015 single coil pickups make the strat sound. the original owner of my MIA strat had exchanged the stock pickups with some seymor duncan "noiseless" pickups don't know anymore which model, could be it was single coil sized humbucker or just what seymor produces their noiseless pu... anyhow with these pickups it lost the strat sound, the classic sparkle, the glassy sound which is mentioned above the original owner has kept the original pickups and put them back in for me, and there it was again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ratae Corieltauvorum Posted March 19, 2015 Moderators Share Posted March 19, 2015 Of all the answers I feel this is the best one because it address bolt-on as well as the other stuff. As you're probably aware Fender made Ritchie Blackmore a set neck Strat with carved heel, and IIIRC he uses big pole Schecter pickups, or they may have used Sd 1/4lbers, and he's used Lace noiseless as well, with no middle pickup, and he's about as glassy as it gets, so the set neck and middle pickup are not high in the equation I'm gonna go for scale, and that vibrato and the bridge pickup position, cos that's all I got. Thing is Mark Knopfler gets the glass with a Pensa Suhr and a Strat, and a Les Paul with two pickups....................ever feel like a dog chasin it's tail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted March 19, 2015 Members Share Posted March 19, 2015 The pickup construction is the biggest item. Strat pups have single pole magnets stood upright, mounted in hard vulcanized fiber bobbins. The individual poles create a focused umbrella of flux lines at the magnet axis where the magnet is strongest and because there are six magnets, one for each string, each string disturbs its own unique field to create its own unique voice within the coil. Humbuckers and P90's use a single bar magnet laid flat. The iron poles may create a focused field at the strings but the fields unite together at the magnet equator. Both a humbucker and P90 have a wider, less focused magnetic field so the area of the string generating the tone will be wider. The audible result will be more bass because the bass waves are longer and require a wider cross section of the string to capture them. Because there's more bass being captured from each string, the sharp treble frequencies are less prominent. HB's also have both north and south poles being cut at the same time, but even with them being closely spaces will generate a slightly different frequency response and overtones for each coil which are then mixed together into a single signal. Note sharpness is also smoothed by having two coils as well. Increased inductance of two coils vs one causes increases in reluctance which results in the signal being more compressed. Main thing is, single poles create independent voices, almost like having six separate pickups. Bar magnets share the same field and even though the fields may be focused under each string, the field is shared by all strings and will have a more uniform frequency response for all the strings. Both are cool in their own ways and both work well so its simply a matter of choosing which you prefer to adapt your playing skills to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bucksstudent Posted March 19, 2015 Members Share Posted March 19, 2015 All I know is that my purple Strat has American Fender pickups of some sort, has a blocked tremolo, and a regular bolt-on style neck, and it's the most glass like Strat I've ever heard. I really need to invite Charlie Murphy over for some basketball and pancakes sometime, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted March 20, 2015 Members Share Posted March 20, 2015 Not thought through the science but some thing always told me the pups being mounted on the pickguard was significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members t_e_l_e Posted March 20, 2015 Members Share Posted March 20, 2015 All I know is that my purple Strat has American Fender pickups of some sort, has a blocked tremolo, and a regular bolt-on style neck, and it's the most glass like Strat I've ever heard. I really need to invite Charlie Murphy over for some basketball and pancakes sometime, though. in your case i guess the chicken head knobs make the big difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ratae Corieltauvorum Posted March 20, 2015 Moderators Share Posted March 20, 2015 Not thought through the science but some thing always told me the pups being mounted on the pickguard was significant. That's a very worthy point, and one that's always puzzled me in the tonewood arguement. I don't have an answer, but I guess the test is direct mount the pickups to the body Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted March 20, 2015 Members Share Posted March 20, 2015 That's a very worthy point, and one that's always puzzled me in the tonewood arguement. I don't have an answer, but I guess the test is direct mount the pickups to the body The same pickups directly mounted do have a very similar tone. Maybe a little more richness from direct contact. A tele's neck pup is a bit different construction but its mounted to the body and when you use it solo has a fairly rich tone. Many pickups use plastic surrounds and plastic covers and have no direct contact with the body. how much sound actually travels through that plastic or directly from the body is going to depend on how microphonic the pickup is. You can hold the pickup over the strings with no body contact and still get similar tones so the majority of the signal comes from the strings, and most of your wood tone is revibrated back up from the body into the strings as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steve2112 Posted March 20, 2015 Members Share Posted March 20, 2015 As you're probably aware Fender made Ritchie Blackmore a set neck Strat with carved heel, and IIIRC he uses big pole Schecter pickups, or they may have used Sd 1/4lbers, and he's used Lace noiseless as well, with no middle pickup, and he's about as glassy as it gets, so the set neck and middle pickup are not high in the equation I'm gonna go for scale, and that vibrato and the bridge pickup position, cos that's all I got. Thing is Mark Knopfler gets the glass with a Pensa Suhr and a Strat, and a Les Paul with two pickups....................ever feel like a dog chasin it's tail? Well fair enough. There's always exceptions to the rule. There's no doubt it's a big combination of factors. The talent of the artist included. I noticed you didn't chastise anyone for saying Fender Amps. Hmm? Ritchie does use Fenders....or not. LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steve2112 Posted March 20, 2015 Members Share Posted March 20, 2015 Despite Ratae's rebuke about bolt ons...it would seem that strats...okay MOST "strats" have a pattern. Many of the components are isolated or separated. *MOST* (do I have to keep saying that?) strats with "glassy tone" have the single coil with separate magnets, and mounted not to the body but to the pickguard. , a trem that is usually off the body and bolt-on (though not always ) You could say it's a combination of these isolated or separated components in different combinations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catscurlyear Posted March 20, 2015 Members Share Posted March 20, 2015 i think it`s the output of the pickup, the weaker the output from the pickup the brighter the sound ,thats how i normally guess at what a pickup will sound like, by measuring the ohm`s of the pickup with a multi meter if it reads something like 5 k it`s gonna be bright and won`t drive an amp that much but sounds great and jangle ,i think ive seen single coils as low as 3k they would sound very bright .6k was stock on a strat i bought in the late 70`s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ratae Corieltauvorum Posted March 20, 2015 Moderators Share Posted March 20, 2015 Well fair enough. There's always exceptions to the rule. There's no doubt it's a big combination of factors. The talent of the artist included. I noticed you didn't chastise anyone for saying Fender Amps. Hmm? Ritchie does use Fenders....or not. LOL. Ritchie's never touched a Fender amp in his life. Mark Knopfler this morning said that, "desiring to own a Fender amp is better than owning one" Me I still still say scale, vibrato, average mass of wood, as dictated by shape, position of the pickups and electronics configuration. They appear to be the only common factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ratae Corieltauvorum Posted March 20, 2015 Moderators Share Posted March 20, 2015 Steve, ya gotta give a nod to falsification theory, I agree, most conform to your model, but as Spooner said if one doesn't then the theory is false; look up "black swan" and falsification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ratae Corieltauvorum Posted March 20, 2015 Moderators Share Posted March 20, 2015 i think it`s the output of the pickup' date=' the weaker the output from the pickup the brighter the sound ,thats how i normally guess at what a pickup will sound like, by measuring the ohm`s of the pickup with a multi meter if it reads something like 5 k it`s gonna be bright and won`t drive an amp that much but sounds great and jangle ,i think ive seen single coils as low as 3k they would sound very bright .6k was stock on a strat i bought in the late 70`s[/quote'] Again Blackmore used high output pickup, and yes he also used an Akai tape deck for treble boost, but still..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steve2112 Posted March 20, 2015 Members Share Posted March 20, 2015 Ritchie's never touched a Fender amp in his life. Mark Knopfler this morning said that, "desiring to own a Fender amp is better than owning one" Me I still still say scale, vibrato, average mass of wood, as dictated by shape, position of the pickups and electronics configuration. They appear to be the only common factors. Yes.. I know...hence the "NOT" part. Not sure how much he uses his Sig amp, but that';s a DAMN fine amplifier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steve2112 Posted March 20, 2015 Members Share Posted March 20, 2015 Ratae...my boss has saying "do not set procedure based on exceptions". If "most conform to the model"...then that NEEDS to be considered as part of the equation. Fender thinks it's important enough. Even Jackson makes some VERY high end bolt-ons. Why? If Fender thinks it's part of their strat pedigree, that's good enough for me. I would add that I have a bolt-on Les Paul. LOL. Wish I could tell how much more glass it has than the set neck LP. LOL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catscurlyear Posted March 20, 2015 Members Share Posted March 20, 2015 Again Blackmore used high output pickup, and yes he also used an Akai tape deck for treble boost, but still..... didn`t know that ,i would have thought it would have been stock kinda stuff back in the purple days ,he had a great sound back then especially on the "made in japan"album when he was switching pickups in his solo`s .i`ve often tried to find out if hendrix did anything with his pick ups ,but generally the answers always seem to be that he used stock gear. apparently malmsteen who i think has sort of copied blackmore to a degree uses very low output pickups for that screaming bridge pickup sound he gets i know a guy who has a malmsteen strat and the pickups are stacked single coil humbuckers 5k output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted March 21, 2015 Members Share Posted March 21, 2015 ... malmsteen who i think has sort of copied blackmore to a degree... I think you might be on to something there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catscurlyear Posted March 21, 2015 Members Share Posted March 21, 2015 I think you might be on to something there lol ,he was defiantly influenced by blackmore but when yngwie comes out with quotes like "he got the idea to scallop his neck because he saw a mandolin with a scalloped neck " you think .......right ! he is a star though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jtr654 Posted March 21, 2015 Members Share Posted March 21, 2015 Any amp with scooped mids at low volume will do. Fender just comes that way at least the blackface 64 amps through present RI. Maybe a bit of compression and reverb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wankdeplank Posted March 22, 2015 Members Share Posted March 22, 2015 OK I know some of you will discount this but I have four Strat type guitars all with vintage style pickups on them and yet they all come across quite a bit differently. I think the body woods have a lot to do with getting that "glassy" sound. I have two with Alder bodies that are really more about that Credence swamp sound, thumping bass with lots of twang. My poplar bodied Strat is a little more subdued, great for strumming and Eagles music - percussive I guess. But it's the ash bodied one that really delivers that glassy sound that seems to work best for the sentimental stuff. Of course they all work for anything but their voices are really different in this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ratae Corieltauvorum Posted March 24, 2015 Moderators Share Posted March 24, 2015 OK I know some of you will discount this but I have four Strat type guitars all with vintage style pickups on them and yet they all come across quite a bit differently. I think the body woods have a lot to do with getting that "glassy" sound. But it's the ash bodied one that really delivers that glassy sound that seems to work best for the sentimental stuff. Of course they all work for anything but their voices are really different in this way. I can only ever get on with ash bodied Strats and even Teles, although I have to say it does save me money:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bucksstudent Posted March 24, 2015 Members Share Posted March 24, 2015 I'm not afraid to admit that natural Strat gives me a semi. Looking at Yngwie calms me back down, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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