Members kwakatak Posted March 17, 2014 Members Share Posted March 17, 2014 For many years my main guitar was a lawsuit Takamine F360 that has seen some hard times. Within the last decade it's been worked on for neck set and bridge set issues and finally it seems to have given up the ghost. Turns out the bridge repairs didn't take and my efforts to fix it essentially destroyed the bridge. When I removed it I discovered there were even more serious issues inside the body. Long story short, I discovered cracked braces and damage to the top from the bridge so I essentially put it up on blocks and scavenged parts from it. Well, now that some other projects are either on hold or wrapping up I decided to shift focus back to the old cracked Tak. My objective is to put a new solid top on it and clean it up the best I can. In order to do that though I've going to have remove the neck and fingerboard as well. With luck I'll be able to fix it up and pass it along to one of my sons when they get bigger. A picture tells a thousand words so here are several with captions explaining what's going on here: Step 1: remove the fingerboard extension. The whole thing needs to go anyway, Step 2: saw off the neck. It's epoxied on so there's no steaming that sucker off. This probably isn't the best knife for the job though. Once it's done we'll see if I can reuse the neck. Step 3: rout off the old top. The idea is to keep the kerfing beneath intact to accept a new top and to keep the old top in one piece to act as a template for the new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted March 17, 2014 Members Share Posted March 17, 2014 Wow - that's a big job! Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members panhandler Posted March 17, 2014 Members Share Posted March 17, 2014 eekphileekphileekphileekphil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted March 17, 2014 Members Share Posted March 17, 2014 Good luck on it! philthumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members katopp Posted March 17, 2014 Members Share Posted March 17, 2014 Dont understand, why you want to keep the kerfing intact. The top (or whats left of it) is now undersized... you need to add the width of the router plus the binding plus some tenths of an inch for sanding down to size and cutting a new binding channel.... Od do you want to glue a kerfing to the kerfing to glue the top to the kerfed kerfings kerfing...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted March 17, 2014 Members Share Posted March 17, 2014 I don't understand why you'd saw the neck off at all. Personally the way I would have approached it would have been to just remove the top and the top's kerfing. Then just glue a newly braced soundboard to the body and attached neck (minus the fingerboard tongue) after you replaced the kerfing. You MIGHT have been able to save the kerfing but if the neck was epoxied the kerfing would have been epoxied to the soundboard as well.....and it's usually that crap basswood kerfing so it's better off removed with a chisel and replaced. You reset the new neck angle in the process of gluing the soundboard down onto the body with the neck attached but the dovetail top exposed... because the neck and dovetail block assembly flex a lot back and forth as a single unit the tiny amount of play you need to set the angle. The hardest part on these is replacing the binding well and finishing so that it looks good there. I usually would rout channels after the soundboard is installed. Around the neck area I cut out the channels by hand with a chisel. Then I French polish the top and binding area blending into the side finish. Spray works too. I predict you won't be able to save the kerfing. It would be a huge effort to save the binding as well and "inlay" the top into that. You'll probably end up replacing both and also need to rout the top edge to accept the new binding. If I was in there with the body open I'd probably be installing a good pickup system as well. As for the soundboard, You might consider getting creative with soundhole placement, bracing pattern and shape. Might look interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted March 17, 2014 Members Share Posted March 17, 2014 I'll watch this with interest. Personally, I'm with Katopp - I would have taken the top flush with the kerfing and simply made a new one to fit, Then I would route out the old binding and rebind it - maybe going a little farther down the sides. If there are places where the kerfing is blown out just take a chisel to it and put new wood. As you know, I've done a sawn off neck job on my old Yamaha - they are a bit of a bitch to line everything up (side to side, up and down and angle) but it can be done. I had the f/b extension still on mine - that did help with alignment. If the neck is not usable I would be temped to route a normal M&T pocket and get or make a new bolt on neck. Original finish is probably nitro so that won't be too bad to fix up. This is going to be a big project - good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted March 17, 2014 Members Share Posted March 17, 2014 All I can say is you're a much braver man than I am. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted March 17, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 17, 2014 Google John Greven rettoping an acoustic guitar. He routs short of the binding and saves the old kerfing. I jumped the gun by routing before having the new top ready but it's not too late. As for the neck, I may indeed rout for an MT joint with bolts. I already have another laminated neck blank halfway ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Neal Posted March 17, 2014 Members Share Posted March 17, 2014 Some scary stuff. Kinda like politics and sausage making. You don't really want to know what goes in it, just that it gets done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted March 17, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 17, 2014 I'll watch this with interest. Personally, I'm with Katopp - I would have taken the top flush with the kerfing and simply made a new one to fit, Then I would route out the old binding and rebind it - maybe going a little farther down the sides. If there are places where the kerfing is blown out just take a chisel to it and put new wood. As you know, I've done a sawn off neck job on my old Yamaha - they are a bit of a bitch to line everything up (side to side, up and down and angle) but it can be done. I had the f/b extension still on mine - that did help with alignment. If the neck is not usable I would be temped to route a normal M&T pocket and get or make a new bolt on neck. Original finish is probably nitro so that won't be too bad to fix up. This is going to be a big project - good luck. I admit that I could've routed a little closer to the edge but I've yet to clear the blocks too. As for the finish, your guess is as good as mine as this guitar is 41 years old now. All I know is that it makes smells consistent with the era; it's kind of musty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted March 17, 2014 Members Share Posted March 17, 2014 I'd'a done something like this. Kinda let loose with the sawzall and then come back in with the new wood, wood filler, and then blended it all with ten cans of clear spray lacquer. It's the old beat it to fit, paint it to match method and then swear that it's opening up nicely every other week thereafter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted March 18, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 18, 2014 New neck in progress: This was glued up about 6 months after the laminated neck on my OLF MJ build so it's as stable as it's gonna be. I have to plane it straight though. If I can't save the Tak's neck I'll finish this one up. Whitt;ling is fun and I can't wait until I can do it on my front step. My neighbors already think I'm weird and my wife asked when I'll finally be done with this obsession. Silly woman. Once the humidity stabilizes I'll start on my second scratch build which will be an EIR/spruce HD-28V SS. I have everything I need but the neck block, fingerboard, frets, inlays, bridge, bindings and tuning machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted March 18, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 18, 2014 BTW, so that this doesn't happen again I drilled BEFORE cutting out the tenon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted March 18, 2014 Members Share Posted March 18, 2014 Shaping after drilling avoids possible break-out at the hole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted March 18, 2014 Members Share Posted March 18, 2014 Basically you are salvaging the laminated rosewood back and sides of a Takamine guitar and using it as a part to build a guitar at this point. Nothing wrong with that. But personally I would have saved and used the neck. Not just because it would have been easier. But because it's not really much of a Takamine anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted March 18, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 18, 2014 You have a point. I think I'm going to shift focus on my next build instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted March 19, 2014 Members Share Posted March 19, 2014 This reminds me of the renovations I've done to our nearly 100 year old house. I've always sworn that if I had to do it again I would've built a new house from scratch. Building is so much easier than restoration! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FretFiend. Posted March 19, 2014 Members Share Posted March 19, 2014 And so a poor hapless Lawsuit Tak dies a horrible death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted March 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 20, 2014 Don't make me feel guilty. It served me well for 20 years and was resurrected twice. While the neck could have been saved the top was not salvageable. FWIW I'm not going to throw it out - much to my wife's chagrin. I also have my first guitar which IS irreparable but won't get rid of it either. BTW, I do have a finished Martin neck as well, though it's for an OM with a modified V profile. I could also just try to cut the veneer off the headstock with my little bandsaw. OT: what I should really do is build a 1/2-3/4 guitar for my younger son. He's only 7 and kinda on the small side but he loves derping with my big guitars. Maybe a cigar box guitar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted March 20, 2014 Members Share Posted March 20, 2014 Neil, my two cents for what it is worth. Retopping your Tak would give you lots of good building and repair experience, but probably is throwing time and money down the well. If it was me, I might decide to do it just to get out in the shop, make sawdust and see what happened. If so I would route that sucker down flat to the kerfing and make a new top just like normal, then route the binding away and bind it as closely as possible to where it was before. I'd do a nice normal Sitka or Lutz top (A grade), normal bracing, simple rosette. I'd build a little router template and route a mortise into the old dovetail pocket. If you wanted to use your Martin neck you could get the dovetail template from StewMac - it would be good practice setting a dovetail. Either way, I wouldn't put a lot of time into building a really nice neck - buy a long scale premade one from LMI or SM or use what you have. I'd also buy a preslotted fretboard and a nice belly bridge rather than going thru all the hassle of making your own (we've been there before, eh?). Depending on how mangled the finish is on the box I think there are two choices. If it isn't too bad then sand out the scratches and shoot a few coats of rattle can nitro, also finishing the top and neck with nitro. Take the usual precautions, shoot outside, wear a respirator - don't go for the 24 coat factory gloss finish but get something that looks pretty good will protect the guitar. You might shoot satin on the neck and gloss the top - your call. With all its disadvantages, nitro is so simple to shoot and will melt into the old finish (which I'm sure is nitro but do the acetone test to be sure). If the old finish is foobar (or not nitro) then I'd probably chemically strip it and do whatever finish you are most comfortable with - in my case it would be water born lacquer but maybe TruOil over shellac for you. All of that might cost you a couple of hundred dollars and a bunch of time, but I think you would be happy with the results and gain a whole lot of good practice. Just my $0.02 but as you know, I have a reputation for jousting at windmills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted March 20, 2014 Members Share Posted March 20, 2014 OT: what I should really do is build a 1/2-3/4 guitar for my younger son. He's only 7 and kinda on the small side but he loves derping with my big guitars. Maybe a cigar box guitar? You should build him a nice little ukulele - scratch or kit. Get him involved in the process as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted March 20, 2014 Members Share Posted March 20, 2014 At this point I'd probably make it into a wall clock or cigar humidor or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted March 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 20, 2014 LOLz, how's about a flowerpot? Freeman, I built him a ukulele from a kit a couple of years ago and he broke the neck off clean at the butt joint. I still have all the pieces. Given what I know now I can bolt the neck on and redo the French polish with much better results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted March 20, 2014 Members Share Posted March 20, 2014 No matter how it turns out, you'll learn a lot by the experience, Kwak, and might end up with a nice enough guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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