Members fetch Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 I love human beans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members english_bob Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 ...I'm not even so sure what P&W is...Praise and Worship. It's basically a catch-all term for christian music inna rock stylee rather than hymns and folk-song-y stuff from back in the day. It's generally pretty generic sounding stuff that apes mainstream alt-rock stuff like U2 and Coldplay. You want to know what it sounds like? Have a listen to Jesus Culture or Hillsongs. It's supposed to be music for communal singing in church services which is partly why it's a little bland and simplistic compared to the mainstream bands whose sound you might hear in P&W stuff. Why do people hate it so much? Well, some because it can be bland and simplistic if it's taken as rock music, some because they're uneasy about turning christian worship in to performance and tying it in to a profit-making industry, some because they hate anything to do with religion. I don't see any reason to ban P&W discussion here- if anything, it's the people who troll those threads who are causing the problems, so why not make antagonistic posting in threads about any topic temp-bannable? Granted, someone's going to have to make the call as to where the line between healthy debate and trolling lies, but Phil's pretty good at that sort of thing Ban religious proselytising too if you like, although I don't think there's very much of that going on at HC except when somebody takes a P&W troll at face value. Ultimately though, if you don't want to discuss P&W, don't look at the threads It's no harder to avoid the P&W stuff than it is to avoid the threads about pedals you're not interested in, or the juvenile OT bull{censored}. Actually, it's easier than that last one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members spentron Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 We need to spread the butthurt over all genres. I see people poking fun at metal and metal bands here almost daily. Why should P&W be exempt. And I haven't figured out exactly what the majority here like, but I'm pretty sure it can use some flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members english_bob Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 Why should P&W be exempt. If the sort of P&W troll threads we had here were purely about mocking a genre of music I don't think anyone would be overly concerned, but that's not the issue- what generally happens is that even if P&W music is the initial subject of criticism, it's never very long before it's christianity instead. Then the spaghetti monster crew turn up and {censored} gets real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members melx Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 .... alt-rock stuff like U2 and Coldplay. I think people calling Coldplay 'alt-rock' should be banned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members english_bob Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 I think people calling Coldplay 'alt-rock' should be banned I shuddered a little as I wrote it. I couldn't think of a better shorthand way of describing what P&W sounds like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dZjupp Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 I've heard there was a secret chord That David played, and it pleased the Lord But you don't really care for music, do you? It goes like this The fourth, the fifth The minor fall, the major lift The baffled king composing Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah Your faith was strong but you needed proof You saw her bathing on the roof Her beauty in the moonlight overthrew you She tied you to a kitchen chair She broke your throne, and she cut your hair And from your lips she drew the Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah Baby I have been here before I know this room, I've walked this floor I used to live alone before I knew you. I've seen your flag on the marble arch Love is not a victory march It's a cold and it's a broken Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah There was a time when you let me know What's really going on below But now you never show it to me, do you? And remember when I moved in you The holy dove was moving too And every breath we drew was Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah Maybe there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members melx Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 I shuddered a little as I wrote it. I couldn't think of a better shorthand way of describing what P&W sounds like. ... it does puzzle me when the US has such a rich history of great music they choose 'white boy bland-rock' as the chosen accompaniment to modern religious worship. If they are right in their beliefs, then I can only imagine that god is looking down going "what the hell is this trash? How about a nice bit of classical, soul or acoustic guitar strumming?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boytbpc Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 The thing that I often see in regards to P&W threads, is that the question has little to do with the genre. For example, "I play in a P&W band at Mega-Church-Humble-Jesus-Loves-Everbody, I need a delay that helps me attain a more U2-dotted-eight-sound, any suggestions?" or "I play P&W, our stage volume is too loud, any suggestions?". The fact that P&W is stated doesn't add anything. The few times I have seen people asking for specific help to try to sound more like Jesus Culture or Hillsong, I put them on my ignore list becaues their taste in music sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members melx Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 The thing that I often see...... you might find this article interesting... http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/31/do-you-speak-christian/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boytbpc Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 you might find this article interesting...http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/31/do-you-speak-christian/ Thanks for the link Melx. I have known about this for a long time, but chose not to bring it up because getting into the "why they do it" aspect would involve discussing religion, whereas I am discussing P&W threads started by P&W players, regardless of their religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members melx Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 gabba gabba we accept you one of us.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Firebrand Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 If we ban the people who can only talk Christian-ese then I would like a ban on all the people who swear too. Both are just as offensive and neither is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boytbpc Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 If we ban the people who can only talk Christian-ese then I would like a ban on all the people who swear too. Both are just as offensive and neither is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members english_bob Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 ... it does puzzle me when the US has such a rich history of great music they choose 'white boy bland-rock' as the chosen accompaniment to modern religious worship. If they are right in their beliefs, then I can only imagine that god is looking down going "what the hell is this trash? How about a nice bit of classical, soul or acoustic guitar strumming?" True. I think it's a case of trying to cater to everyone and stay remotely contemporary. P&W is for communal singing, and a healthy church is likely to have people of all ages and musical preferences, so a sound that is reasonably up-to-date for teh kidz, but that's inoffensive to the older members is called for. Something uplifting and anthemic to sing, but that's not too complex so that the less musically gifted can join in too. "White boy bland-rock" ticks most of the right boxes.You're right, there's a long tradition of christian music with far more artistic merit than most P&W but while the sort of churches that play P&W music have no shortage of bland white boys with guitars they're unlikely to have gospel choirs or orchestras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dZjupp Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 you might find this article interesting...http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/31/do-you-speak-christian/ this was great and rang true with me. its sad what the west has done with life in general in the last 200 years. i don't see life as a structured box that you put everything into nice and neatly, but more of as an experience. long live HCFX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dZjupp Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 True. I think it's a case of trying to cater to everyone and stay remotely contemporary. P&W is for communal singing, and a healthy church is likely to have people of all ages and musical preferences, so a sound that is reasonably up-to-date for teh kidz, but that's inoffensive to the older members is called for. Something uplifting and anthemic to sing, but that's not too complex so that the less musically gifted can join in too. "White boy bland-rock" ticks most of the right boxes.You're right, there's a long tradition of christian music with far more artistic merit than most P&W but while the sort of churches that play P&W music have no shortage of bland white boys with guitars they're unlikely to have gospel choirs or orchestras. if you've ever encountered a black church playing gospel, whitey white contemporary P&W is a joke in comparison. That said, i've learned for myself to have encounters anywhere regarding music. like the few times i've seen derek trucks, completely a religious experience. heh heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members english_bob Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 The thing that I often see in regards to P&W threads, is that the question has little to do with the genre. For example, "I play in a P&W band at Mega-Church-Humble-Jesus-Loves-Everbody, I need a delay that helps me attain a more U2-dotted-eight-sound, any suggestions?" or "I play P&W, our stage volume is too loud, any suggestions?". The fact that P&W is stated doesn't add anything. By that token, I'd say that a fairly large percentage of the threads on this forum are genre-irrelevant. Would it bother you if those same threads were started by someone who played shoegaze, dream pop, doom metal, post-rock or polka? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members frankthomson Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 Jesus does not appreciate this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hangwire Posted March 21, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 Religion and p&w are not the same thing on thus forum anymore Phil which is why I'm an hoping to open your eyes to a good idea to improve this place. Raging on each other about metal or cats or even religious dogma usually goes as well as to be expected from the Internet, but "p&w" frankly is becoming "n-word varient" ... A typed group of letters that exceed normalcy in response here. Please ponder this, there is no negative impact to eliminating said phrasing here just as n word varients bring stopped haven't caused a free speech black hole- it is just proactive betterment to discourse and purpose here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onyxrhino Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 This is pathetic. What if christians here whined everytime someone mentioned a genre that doesn't conform with their beliefs? I guess we could just ban everything. I suppose that since christians don't start {censored}storms everytime someone mentions black metal, that they deserve to be singled out and persecuted. Grow up guys, learn to tolerate others with different views than your own. It's really not that hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crxsh Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 This is pathetic. What if christians here whined everytime someone mentioned a genre that doesn't conform with their beliefs? I guess we could just ban everything. I suppose that since christians don't start {censored}storms everytime someone mentions black metal, that they deserve to be singled out and persecuted. Grow up guys, learn to tolerate others with different views than your own. It's really not that hard. But... but... I DON'T LIKE IT!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Small Stone Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 post your praise and worship boards!!!post your atheist boards!!post your pagan black metal boards!!post your nihilist boards!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hangwire Posted March 21, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 This is pathetic. What if christians here whined everytime someone mentioned a genre that doesn't conform with their beliefs? I guess we could just ban everything. I suppose that since christians don't start {censored}storms everytime someone mentions black metal, that they deserve to be singled out and persecuted. Grow up guys, learn to tolerate others with different views than your own. It's really not that hard. I'm happy to listen to your view as long as it is related to the point of this thread... This isn't about bashing religion, but eliminating a term that serves no functional descriptive, but causes divisiveness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orourke Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 I'm an atheist and I think we should just leave the p&w people alone. I don't like to seeing people being picked on. If someone starts a thread you don't like just don't post in it and let it drop. Ultimate freedom of speech! Except for that word "butthurt", that word ought to be banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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