Phil O'Keefe Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 I'm sure you've heard some commonly repeated complaints about gear over the years: one example - word clock BNC connectors. If a device has any digital I/O, then IMHO, it should have word clock connectors on it. Here's another one I thought of while re-wiring my racks recently. Why isn't there any sort of standard as far as rack rear panel layouts? I honestly don't care what convention the industry decided to come up with, but it REALLY would be nice if ALL rack units stuck with some sort of a standard insofar as the location of the various types of connectors. All power connectors on the right, all audio on the left, MIDI and USB (or whatever) in the middle, etc. - or whatever. It would make wiring up racks a LOT cleaner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members albiedamned Posted January 5, 2008 Members Share Posted January 5, 2008 So say we all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members seclusion Posted January 5, 2008 Members Share Posted January 5, 2008 Yes and while you're at it, ban wall warts!One 3 prong plug for everyone!I think I counted 40 different type of cables in my old studio setup!What's with that. Mostly "In the box" now with my Mac Pro, TL Audio C-1, FW 1884, XT Live, CME UF8, Event 20/20 Bas and a bunch Instruments, mics and plugs ITB!Yee ha, sooo much simpler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members seclusion Posted January 5, 2008 Members Share Posted January 5, 2008 Cables...USB, USB 2, Firewire to 6 pin, Firewire to Digi Cam, BNC, Spdif, coax, Light-pipe, XLR, 1/4", 1/4" Bal, XLR AES/EBU. midi, Variax, RCA, Power, Adapters(the right ones for different units), Powered mic connecter, Tdif, Sync cables, PS2, Roland Synth plug, 1/4" insert, Cat 5, Cat 6, Ribbon Cables, Sata Cables, eSata and most of all, those special adapter cables that go from one to the other!Got to be an easier way!Later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jbr Posted January 5, 2008 Members Share Posted January 5, 2008 All power connectors on the right, all audio on the left, MIDI and USB (or whatever) in the middle, etc. - or whatever.It would make wiring up racks a LOT cleaner! Agree totally, I used to have a Frontier Design Tango24 Converter(IIRC) with the power connector on the opposite side of every other piece of gear. I remedied this by placing it upsidedown in the rack. And most recently, my new Rosetta200 has this same issue, though it shall remain in the correct position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted January 5, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 5, 2008 All power on the right! I can work around the rest but having consistency with that AC would clean up my racks nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 Yes and while you're at it, ban wall warts! I understand the thought behind this, but OTOH, I can understand why they're commonly used too. From a manufacturer's perspective, wall warts offer at least two attractive advantages. First of all, it gets the power supply away from the onboard electronics, which can help with hum and noise issues. Secondly, by using an off the shelf wall wart, UL certification (and whatever they currently use in Europe - CE?) is much easier. The supply itself has the UL listing, and the separate rackmount device doesn't require it. That saves the audio gear company development and testing costs, and allows the device to get to market faster too. However, the wall wart has many "issues" from an end-user's perspective. * They take up too much space on a wall power outlet or power strip * They can get lost, or separated from the device they're intended to power * Plug the wrong one in to the wrong device, and you can easily fry said device * If you travel a lot, power converters are needed for many supplies due to different line voltages and plug formats in different parts of the world One of the cooler wall warts I've seen lately is the one that ships with the SSL Duende. While the Duende can be bus powered if you are using a standard 6 pin 1394 cable, if you're a laptop user who is using a 4 to 6 pin style cable, you have to supply power the hardware via an adapter. The included adapter is indeed a wall wart, with most of the usual downsides, but the plug itself is on a small plate, which can be easily detached and replaced with a different one (several are included), for use with different types of AC outlets in different countries. And because the PS is a switching design with the ability to handle a range of AC sources (50 or 60 Hz, 120 or 240V), it's pretty universal and can be used darn near anywhere in the world. "Line Lumps" (wall warts with short AC power cables instead of having the AC plug built into the adapter's main housing) are far preferable IMHO to true wall warts, because they take up only a single outlet on a power strip. OTOH, you do need to have some place to set them. As far as wrong voltage issues, and using the wrong adapter with the wrong device, you just have to check, and check again to make sure you have the right PS before plugging it in. Don't just assume you have the "right" one because it has the proper connector at the end - check the voltage. Also be sure to check it for DC / vs AC output, and check the back of the rack unit too. Each should list their power input and output specs (adapters) and power requirements (rack gear). One thing I wish manufacturers would do is to label the supply in such a way as to indicate which device it corresponds to. I have a ton of adapters sitting around, and you might be surprised by how many of them are "generic" - again, I think that helps reduce costs, but a small sticky label added to it to indicate which company and which device it corresponds to would help cut down the confusion. OTOH, it's a simple matter to grab a Sharpie and write that on to the adapter itself. Like I said, wall warts are not ideal, and I definitely prefer onboard power supplies, rackmounted supplies and even line lumps, but again, I understand why they're used on a lot of gear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted January 6, 2008 Members Share Posted January 6, 2008 All complaints duly noted. I'll see what I can do. Just about all the complaints, I've grumbled about as well!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dean Roddey Posted January 6, 2008 Members Share Posted January 6, 2008 Definitely wall warts should indicate what they are for. It's quite possible to never figure out again what wall wart is for a device, or to sell one piece of equipment and send along the wrong one and things like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nerol1st Posted January 6, 2008 Members Share Posted January 6, 2008 Wall warts shouldn't be banned, but instead all of them should be made mandatory transformer in the middle instead of having the tranny at the end right at the wall socket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted January 6, 2008 Members Share Posted January 6, 2008 Wall warts shouldn't be banned, but instead all of them should be made mandatory transformer in the middle instead of having the tranny at the end right at the wall socket. Those are so much better. You can obviously buy a small cord and "create" one with a wall-wart, but...you shouldn't have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Beck Posted January 6, 2008 Members Share Posted January 6, 2008 Where do I go to file an industry-wide complaint? See below... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doug osborne Posted January 7, 2008 Members Share Posted January 7, 2008 Those are so much better. You can obviously buy a small cord and "create" one with a wall-wart, but...you shouldn't have to. Unfortunately, non-switching power supplies (DC or AC) generally aren't made as line lumps. And adding an extra cord adds cost - extra wire and the labor to attach it - making the power supply more expensive. Switching power supplies aren't appropriate for everything. I just buy a bunch of shorties and I'm done with it (I agree that we shouldn't have to, and that it's an annoyance). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C JoGo Posted January 8, 2008 Members Share Posted January 8, 2008 Then Manley places the AC in the center of the DVC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nik Posted January 8, 2008 Members Share Posted January 8, 2008 If Behringer can put an internal power supply in the RX1602 and still sell it for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lucky #9 Posted January 10, 2008 Members Share Posted January 10, 2008 So say we all. Ah...another Battlestar G. fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 Cables... USB, USB 2, Firewire to 6 pin, Firewire to Digi Cam, BNC, Spdif, coax, Light-pipe, XLR, 1/4", 1/4" Bal, XLR AES/EBU. midi, Variax, RCA, Power, Adapters(the right ones for different units), Powered mic connecter, Tdif, Sync cables, PS2, Roland Synth plug, 1/4" insert, Cat 5, Cat 6, Ribbon Cables, Sata Cables, eSata and most of all, those special adapter cables that go from one to the other! Got to be an easier way! Later Excellent point seclusion... we live in a sea of wire, teeming with a variety of species. One thing that has helped, and that I wish would gain wider acceptance industry wide, is the Yamaha mLAN standard. It's pretty sweet - multichannel audio, MIDI and word clock - all on a single, standard 6 pin firewire cable. I have my computer, i88x, 01V96 and 01X all connected, and between them I'm sending 24 channels of audio, about 15 MIDI ports (240 MIDI channels, hardware and software), automation, DAW control surface data and word clock - all with only three firewire cables. Of course, the HD interfaces are separate, and I have a mountain of wire plugged in to everything else, not to mention whatever input sources I have routed into the boards from mikes and line inputs or whatever. But the capabilities of the system are impressive, and the reduction in inter-connection cabling is significant. And changing the word clock master, or re-routing audio between the devices on an mLAN network is as simple as popping open an applet and repatching via an onscreen graphic - no crawling behind the racks to do an unusual routing configuration. I think it's a cool idea, and again, I think it would be great if it was more widely adopted. I'm a big fan of standards and this one works very well IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members albiedamned Posted January 10, 2008 Members Share Posted January 10, 2008 Ah...another Battlestar G. fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kid Klash Posted January 10, 2008 Members Share Posted January 10, 2008 You could create a device standard, outlining what needs to be included (or removed, or improved) on audio devices, and create a logo to go with your standard, then pitch it to the AES, as well as arrange a forum or workshop at the next NAMM show to present it to the manufacturers. This would be like establishing the MIDI standard in the early 90's. Sounds daunting, but it would help the industry, and would also (probably) create a new full-time career path for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nik Posted January 10, 2008 Members Share Posted January 10, 2008 You could create a device standard, outlining what needs to be included (or removed, or improved) on audio devices, and create a logo to go with your standard, then pitch it to the AES, as well as arrange a forum or workshop at the next NAMM show to present it to the manufacturers. This would be like establishing the MIDI standard in the early 90's. Sounds daunting, but it would help the industry, and would also (probably) create a new full-time career path for you. Manufacturers had an incentive to adopt MIDI, and various other standards over the years. But I don't think you'll see many getting on board with this. I also don't see how you make a living out of it. Where is the revenue stream? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kid Klash Posted January 10, 2008 Members Share Posted January 10, 2008 I also don't see how you make a living out of it. Where is the revenue stream? It hinges upon the way the standard is spun, not only to the manufacturers, but also to the consumers. If equipment that meets the standard and bares the logo is perceived as better and higher grade, the consumers will favor those products above the others. The manufacturers then tout the fact that their products meet that standard, and the money flows faster for them. The revenue stream for the standards developer comes from certifying (certification fee) a piece of gear, which would include the use of the standards logo on the equipment, in and on the equipment manual, on the manufacturers website, on the retailers website, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 You could create a device standard, outlining what needs to be included (or removed, or improved) on audio devices, and create a logo to go with your standard, :phil: then pitch it to the AES, as well as arrange a forum or workshop at the next NAMM show to present it to the manufacturers. This would be like establishing the MIDI standard in the early 90's. Small correction: Early '80's. Sounds daunting, but it would help the industry, and would also (probably) create a new full-time career path for you. I'd rather be making records than overseeing a standards committee, and besides, I'm no Dave Smith, so I don't know how much impact I'd have if I tried to do something about it beyond complaining to individual manufacturers and here on the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kid Klash Posted January 10, 2008 Members Share Posted January 10, 2008 :phil: Small correction: Early '80's. I'd rather be making records than overseeing a standards committee, and besides, I'm no Dave Smith, so I don't know how much impact I'd have if I tried to do something about it beyond complaining to individual manufacturers and here on the forums. I like your logo, and I use it quite often in these HC threads. Yeah - you're right - it WAS the early 80's - and I was there, at the first MIDI conference in Manhattan (shame on me)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members music321 Posted January 20, 2008 Members Share Posted January 20, 2008 i might be seriously naive, but would the "electronic industries alliance" be able to influence this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kendrix Posted January 20, 2008 Members Share Posted January 20, 2008 How about all devices output a signal that is the same polarity as the input?Its not unusual to be 180 degrees off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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