Phil O'Keefe Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Hey folks! I have a question about 12 string acoustics. I have two 12 strings - a late 70s / early 80s MIJ Hohner HG-12 D dreadnought and a late 90s MIK Danelectro DC-12 electric. What I'd like to get is a 12 string acoustic that I can actually play for more than a few minutes without it killing my hands. I don't expect a 12 string to play like a 6 string, but I have short and stubby fingers and the neck on the Hohner is a baseball bat - very round and fat. It kills my hands. By comparison, the Dano's neck is a dream - fairly flat and thin, but wide enough that there's decent spacing between the string pairs. Obviously there's more tension on an acoustic guitar's neck than on an electric guitar's so they usually have to be stronger, but there's got to be something less beefy and more playable for someone like me than this late 70s / early 80s era Hohner. That's where you fine folks come in. Any suggestions? They'll be appreciated - thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted June 16, 2015 Members Share Posted June 16, 2015 In my humble opinion Taylor is making the finest 12 strings today. Their necks are the typical Taylor slim and fast (but the do have 1-7/8 nuts), their jumbo bodies seem to be just the right size, and they are the only mass produced 12 that has each string of each course individually compensated. The NT neck is golden and the ES is pretty good electronics I think the 355 is the best bang for the buck model - you can frequently find used ones for around a grand. The Taylor 150 gets good reviews (I haven't played one) - less money, laminated b&s, only dreadnaught shape. The Kottke sig model is a great guitar if you like Leo's radical downtuning and style. Guild builds great 12 string but the necks tend to be chunky. They do have dual truss rods (but that won't prevent a reset). Guilds tend to be great strumming 12's if that the style you want to play. I've never been too impressed with budget 12's - but I have played a few nice current Alvarez and Yamaha guitars (don't remember models). I seriously advise against buying a used 12 (other than the T355) - they frequently have serious issues. If I was going to buy one 12 today it would be a Fraulini (but then I'm a blues guy LOL) http://www.fraulini.com/models.php Even more that most guitars, I think its important to know how you plan to tune and play a 12 string, and then get out and play as many as you can. I own a very nice old Martin 12 (with perfect neck angle and action) but I rarely play it because it just doesn't suit my style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted June 16, 2015 Members Share Posted June 16, 2015 Also Phil, I should probably mention Breedlove (I know you liked their mandolin). I played one of their made in Oregon guitars (don't remember the model) and thought the neck felt very nice. People tend to either really like or dislike their styling (I'm in the second group) but the guitar had a warm complex "modern" sound - possibly due to the fact that they use a JDL bridge doctor. That allows very deep scalloping for a very responsive guitar and provided the torsional strength to keep it from bending in two - its a completely different approach to building a twelve. Maybe you could get an instrument for review and just sorta keep it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted June 17, 2015 Members Share Posted June 17, 2015 ^ There's a thought. The "auditorium" size Premier Series 12 string is their cheapest US made model with a street price of around $2,000: http://breedlovemusic.com/guitars/premier-series/12-string2. All solid wood, spruce/rosewood. If that's too rich for your blood, they do have some US designed/Korean manufactured models. The "concert" size Stage 12 string is also solid spruce/rosewood with a street price of around $1,050: http://breedlovemusic.com/guitars/stage-series/stage12-string-2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members panhandler Posted June 17, 2015 Members Share Posted June 17, 2015 Another vote for Taylor...https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/browse?field_guitar_category_tid=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted June 17, 2015 Members Share Posted June 17, 2015 Phil, don't know if you ever go slumming at other forums but probably the best discussion of 12 strings if over at UMGF. They do talk about Martins, of course, but its pretty generic and balanced. You might spend a little time hanging at the 12 String Cafe' http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.yuku.com/forums/7/The-12String-Cafe/The-12String-Cafe#.VYGeLM_bK1s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 Phil, don't know if you ever go slumming at other forums but probably the best discussion of 12 strings if over at UMGF. They do talk about Martins, of course, but its pretty generic and balanced. You might spend a little time hanging at the 12 String Cafe' http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.yuku.com/forums/7/The-12String-Cafe/The-12String-Cafe#.VYGeLM_bK1s Thanks for the link Freeman. I'll check it out. No, I don't spend a lot of time on other forums these days (although I am a member on several) - I usually don't have enough hours in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 Another vote for Taylor... https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/browse?field_guitar_category_tid=72 It's a good possibility that's what I'll end up with. I have three Taylors already - a 510, a GS Mini and a Baby. Their necks seem to work well with my hands... I just don't want to overlook other potentially good candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members All The Same Posted June 22, 2015 Members Share Posted June 22, 2015 check out Seagulls- a friend had one (cant really remember the model) but I recall it was like butter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members recordingtrack1 Posted June 23, 2015 Members Share Posted June 23, 2015 Taylor all the way. Cannot go wrong with fantastic intonation and the ease of play, better than anything I've ever owned.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FretFiend. Posted June 23, 2015 Members Share Posted June 23, 2015 If I was in the market for a 12 string guitar, I would be looking very seriously at a Taylor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikeo Posted June 24, 2015 Members Share Posted June 24, 2015 It's a good possibility that's what I'll end up with. I have three Taylors already - a 510, a GS Mini and a Baby. Their necks seem to work well with my hands... I just don't want to overlook other potentially good candidates. It all kind of depends on what tones you are looking for, if you like the shorter scale of the GS mini ( have a mahogany one), how about taking a look no further than a Gibson J185 12 string. I wasn't sure if they were still making it or not., but they are. I have an old J185 6 string from the early 90's, the neck is nice . I also have smaller paws and can jump from a lil mandolin to a full size Martin, with out much of an issue. Maple back and sides are bright, yet pop very nicely. If I didn't just spring for a Gibson F5G mandolin, I'd seriously consider a Gibson J185 12 string. Maybe Someone could spot me some extra $$$$$. It will be totally different than anything Taylor has to offer. Should take a year to open up and sound freakin amazing [video=youtube;SPluv0XBDgw] Martin is also making a few 12 strings, and who wouldn't love a D28 12, with the big fat bottom and crispy treble upper end . Personally Dreadnoughts are a very forgiving guitar to play and sometimes record, as the mids are not as pronounced as, say a 000 or 0000. Martins warranty is very nice too. Chris the 4th stands behind his products. 1-7/8 at the nut. Taylor has a bunch of nice 12 string that should sound fine out of the box, narrow fret board at the nut, but longer scale. It all really depend on what you want for tones and if that's even important to you. As you also know I am a fan of Rickenbacker stuff, my 330 12 is very nice to play, although the neck is slightly bigger than my 330-6. Another acoustic option might be to load up a standard 6 string with some Nashville high's and fake it. It's not exactly the same. I know you like gadgets and although I have never even tried it, Taking a standard 6 string and running it through a Fishman Spectra DI on the 12 setting, Run the blend up high and see if you like. I actually may try this later tonight or tomorrow and see what it sounds like. Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikeo Posted June 24, 2015 Members Share Posted June 24, 2015 Tried the 12 string setting last night with the Fishman Spectra on the 12 string setting and with a full blend. Not exactly what I hoped it would be, but the 12 string harmonics are kinda there. Not the big full 12 string sound I was hoping for. For and an acoustic 12 string to make a mix fuller it might work, but if the 12 string was more out front, as a primary instrument, I'd look for another option. Don't forget about the Guild F512. They might have a bulkier neck than you wanted, but the sound is one of the best.Built for the tension of a 12 string. Guild knows you really need to over build a 12 string, and does just that. [video=youtube;FQ_DdgxRSak] I believe it's what SRV used on Life By the Drop[video=youtube;mgo5OWVFVHc] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tony Burns Posted June 26, 2015 Members Share Posted June 26, 2015 One of the nicest sound 12 strings ive recently played was a Larrivee - Im not the biggest Larrivee fan ( Thou i use to own a very nice OMv60 ) Did not have the typical -OK sound it really rang for the money- and price wise couldnt be beat -sorry i didnt buy it- Would love an upgrade from my 1971 Yamaha ( I bought new -belive it or not ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted June 29, 2015 Members Share Posted June 29, 2015 Too bad TAH isn't here to set us straight. I'm not a 12-string player. But there is no way I'd ever want a Taylor over a comparable Guild 12'er. I'd rate it Guild, Larivee and then...I don't know, Gibson or Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 It all kind of depends on what tones you are looking for, if you like the shorter scale of the GS mini ( have a mahogany one), how about taking a look no further than a Gibson J185 12 string. I wasn't sure if they were still making it or not., but they are. I have an old J185 6 string from the early 90's, the neck is nice . I also have smaller paws and can jump from a lil mandolin to a full size Martin, with out much of an issue. Maple back and sides are bright, yet pop very nicely. If I didn't just spring for a Gibson F5G mandolin, I'd seriously consider a Gibson J185 12 string. Maybe Someone could spot me some extra $$$$$. It will be totally different than anything Taylor has to offer. Should take a year to open up and sound freakin amazing [video=youtube;SPluv0XBDgw] I'm sure the Gibby is lovely, but there's no way I can afford to spend that much on a specialty guitar that I won't play all that often... although I don't really have any objections to maple back and sides. I played a fantastic pair of rented 600-series Taylor jumbos (6 and 12 string) on a session once that really knocked me out, and a good friend of mine had a Guild maple jumbo that was an incredible sounding guitar... As you also know I am a fan of Rickenbacker stuff, my 330 12 is very nice to play, although the neck is slightly bigger than my 330-6. My RIckenbacker is a Jetglo 610 - again, all maple. I wanted a 620/12 or a 660/12, but I wound up with a Danelectro DC-12 getting tossed into a much larger gear package purchase around the turn of the century, and that has filled all my 12 string electric needs ever since. It's a surprisingly good little 12 string electric, and the neck is perfect for me - it's wide enough that the spacing isn't too tight (like on some Rics) but very thin from front to back, so it's very easy to play by 12 string standards. Another acoustic option might be to load up a standard 6 string with some Nashville high's and fake it. It's not exactly the same. Good tip to use in a pinch... I used to keep one guitar around strung up in Nashville tuning and used it occasionally to double parts with. You're right though - it's not quite the same thing as a "real" 12 string. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members katopp Posted June 30, 2015 Members Share Posted June 30, 2015 I'm a 12-string player since ... forever. I have had a 12-string as my one and only guitar for about 5 years and still I have about three of them in my stable. The baseball-bat necks are common and for a reason. There is a lot of tension on those necks. But modern constructions and materials can help. I favour Ovation 12-string necks. And the Ovations are robust. I have a 12-string Balladeer for 25+ years now. Still going strong. I had a few problems with stress induced cracks, but all repairable by myself. The neck angle still is more than acceptable. In fact it is almost as good as new and bridge rotation is almost non-noticeable. But you have to make up with the bowl....Obviously, I can not vouch for modern day Ovations and I have no clue what the new owners will do to the quality, but if you ask me - I will not give away that one. Guild is obviously my other choice. Once again, my knowledge is limited to 20+ year old guitars, but they were good then and everything that I have tried and tested today is not hinting otherwise. Given the availability of carbon fiber and other high-tech materials, it might not be a bad idea to commission a custom made 12 at either a local luthier or at one of the better luthiers overseas.Emerald Guitars on my little island has built some very impressive instruments. And they offer a 12-string for a moderate €350 surcharge: http://www.emeraldguitars.com/acoustic/x20-os/Or request a price from the inofficial HCAG Saigon luthier by the name of Binh ;-) But, and that is the point, with a 12-string a good - a very good - setup is even more important than with a six stringer. I would first take the guitar to a good practical luthier who has experience with the intricate work that comes with 12 strings - and it is a very different game to set up a 12 - and have it set up to your liking. A proper nut job alone helps a lot, a huge lot. Depending on the condition of the neck and the quality of the general construction, maybe taking away a few 1/100 and reshaping it to (depend on your playing style) flatter or more v-shaped will make a difference, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ski219 Posted June 30, 2015 Members Share Posted June 30, 2015 BTW Stevie Ray is playing a 412, not a 512. I played a bunch Martin's and Taylor's and bought a Guild F412 that was made where Ovations used to be made in New hartford, CT. It sounds and plays like a dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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