Harmony Central Forums
Announcement Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

So... what are you using for small diaphragm condensers?

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse









X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    .....They seem pretty neutral, although the only thing I can really use as a comparison is a crappy MXL LDC that is too harsh in the high end.


    Wouldn't by chance be the 990, would it?
    Still Kickin' cancer's ass....Blue Water Sailors of the Vietnam WarHCGB Trooper #246Psalm 19 SocietyI can't really imagine experiencing the desire for multiple women; one has proven to be taxing enough as it is.Thanks Offy

    Comment


    • #17
      The only SDCs I have are the Carvins. They are OK. When normal people reach for an SDC, I tend to grab my AT4050s.
      Tauntr.com - Adding Insult to Everything!Neck Pocket Cavern Surveyor for the Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You club!"In all fairness, Les Pauls have a switch position labeled "Rhythm", while Strats do not, because they are lead guitars for lead guitarists." -Flatspotter

      Comment


      • #18
        These days it's usually a pair of Little Blondies and my Shure KSM32's, which are somewhere between SDC's and LDC's, technically. I do have a pair of Karma K10's that I used to use quite a bit untill I got the Blondies and the KSM32's. They still get my vote for best bang for the buck in that price range, but they can get pretty aggressive in the upper mids. Still won't sell them, though...

        PS: Hello again everyone! This is my 1st post here in, probably, over a year. Been so busy in my studio that I haven't had time to pop in.
        www.joellis.co.za/recordproduction/main.htm

        Comment


        • #19
          Hi Jo - good to see you again!

          I hadn't heard of the Little Blondies before, so I went off on a Google search. Very interesting little omnis! They seem to sound pretty good based on their demo videos too. You must have a pretty decent sounding tracking room if you're using omni mikes for your overheads.
          **********

          "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

          - George Carlin

          "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

          - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

          "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

          - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

          Comment


          • #20
            For Guitar, a pair of Oktava MK012's @ 45* to the source {a pair of Electar Tube 30's and a Yamaha hundred 412}
            For Drum overheads, a pair of Shure SM81A's spaced 45 * above the source. {cymbals}
            These are indispensable to the sound of my recordings.

            Comment


            • #21
              These days it's usually a pair of Little Blondies and my Shure KSM32's, which are somewhere between SDC's and LDC's, technically. I do have a pair of Karma K10's that I used to use quite a bit untill I got the Blondies and the KSM32's. They still get my vote for best bang for the buck in that price range, but they can get pretty aggressive in the upper mids. Still won't sell them, though...


              I have a little blondie and a little woodie. Both are fantastic, with subtle differences. I've used them for drum overheads, acoustic and electric guitars. Still learning the best applications for them, and all my recording is pretty amateurish at this point. But I'm glad I got those.
              "What fun is it being cool if you can't wear a sombrero?" -- Hobbes

              Comment


              • #22
                I'll just throw this thought out here: do people use SDCs less now because digital typically reacts much quicker than analog?
                Ken Lee on 500px / Ken's Photo Store / Ken Lee Photography Facebook Website / Blueberry Buddha Studios / Ajanta Palace Houseboat - Kashmir / Hotel Green View - Kashmir / Eleven Shadows website / Ken Lee Photography Blog / Akai 12-track tape transfers / MY NEW ALBUM! The Mercury Seven

                Comment


                • #23
                  I bought 8 of those karmas when they were on sale. I used them for awhile on drums but they would distort a little.


                  It's been ages since I checked out their site, but IIRC, they were talking about doing a version with lower sensitivity so they could be used on high SPL sources without them overloading as readily - in fact, I believe that's why I put off getting a set - I was planning on waiting until the newer version was ready. Did they ever release those?

                  I'm using a pair of Cad CM 217's right now that were from a drum mic kit and work fine for whatever I need to do.


                  I think Musician's Friend sells sets of those (2 mikes) for $60. Again, I've never tried them, but have certainly been curious about them. The stated frequency response goes out to 13kHz and then slopes off pretty heavily to where it's about 20dB down at 20kHz. How "dark" do they sound? Are the highs still "there" when used as overheads?

                  the cads have a low end attenuator which is handy. It will cut out most of the Kick and tom frequencies and just leave the highs.


                  A good HPF can also be nice for spot mic use on ride cymbals and so forth...

                  So you like the CADs quite a bit?
                  **********

                  "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

                  - George Carlin

                  "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

                  - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                  "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

                  - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I'll just throw this thought out here: do people use SDCs less now because digital typically reacts much quicker than analog?


                    "Reacts"? Are you referring to transient response or something else Ken?

                    SDC's have certain advantages IMO, and certain disadvantages. They tend to suffer from greater self-noise than LDC's, but they also tend to have less issues with ring and overshoot, and less colored off-axis response. Transient response does tend to be very good, but that's true of most ribbon mikes too, and lots of people use and love the sound of those with digital recording. Some of the SDC's out there can be pretty bright, but in that respect I don't think they're all that different from many of the current crop of LDC's - there are a ton of LDC's out there with hyped high frequencies too. I used to use AKG 451EB's for overheads a lot back in the analog days, but I found them a bit too bright when tracking to digital. The KM184 is a pretty darned bright mic too IMHO, but its predecessor, the KM84, doesn't suffer from the same issue IMO.

                    It's an interesting question.
                    **********

                    "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

                    - George Carlin

                    "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

                    - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                    "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

                    - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I'm surprised to hear that ribbons have fast transient response. I always thought that peopled used them in situations where they want to de-emphasize the transients.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        "Reacts"? Are you referring to transient response or something else Ken?


                        Transient response. That SDCs often have it, and that digital tends to capture the transient peaks more so than analog tape ("reacts" as in digital capturing the initial transient peak "faster" than analog would - that's why I used the word "react", possibly not the best description, but I was thinking in an "analog" sort of way when I wrote that).

                        SDC's have certain advantages IMO, and certain disadvantages. They tend to suffer from greater self-noise than LDC's, but they also tend to have less issues with ring and overshoot, and less colored off-axis response. Transient response does tend to be very good, but that's true of most ribbon mikes too, and lots of people use and love the sound of those with digital recording. Some of the SDC's out there can be pretty bright, but in that respect I don't think they're all that different from many of the current crop of LDC's - there are a ton of LDC's out there with hyped high frequencies too. I used to use AKG 451EB's for overheads a lot back in the analog days, but I found them a bit too bright when tracking to digital. The KM184 is a pretty darned bright mic too IMHO, but its predecessor, the KM84, doesn't suffer from the same issue IMO.

                        It's an interesting question.


                        I'm wondering whether there is 1.) a fall-off in usage of SDCs, and 2.) whether that's due largely to the dominance of digital recording.

                        And I'm very surprised to hear you say that ribbons have fast transient responses as well.
                        Ken Lee on 500px / Ken's Photo Store / Ken Lee Photography Facebook Website / Blueberry Buddha Studios / Ajanta Palace Houseboat - Kashmir / Hotel Green View - Kashmir / Eleven Shadows website / Ken Lee Photography Blog / Akai 12-track tape transfers / MY NEW ALBUM! The Mercury Seven

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          There's a bit over on the Royer site that says it as well or better than I could, so here it is:

                          Ribbons and Transient Response

                          Audio transients are instantaneous sonic events with extremely short attack and decay times, and minimal sustain. Snare drum hits, kick drum hits, staccato piano, plucked strings, and slap bass are all good examples. Due to the low mass of the element, ribbons exhibit extremely fast transient response, often equaling or exceeding that of condensers, depending on the size and composition of the diaphragm or ribbon.

                          Good transient response leads to clean, dynamic, punchy, and detailed recordings (the sound literally comes alive) the sound stage opens up and envelops the listener, often appearing wider than the playback speakers themselves. Poor transient response results in recordings that are dull, muddled, and ill-defined with a smeared stereo image where the listener struggles to hear each instrument in its proper context.

                          Some sound engineers believe that condensers are always faster, but many times what they are hearing is overshoot - a disproportionate reaction to a transient common to condensers that results in higher output of the transient than its actual input. Overshoot leads to some nasty sonic artifacts and often contributes to the brittle, tinny high end found on some inexpensive condensers. Well-designed ribbons are not susceptible to overshoot.

                          Considering the mass of the element, we can conclude the fast transient response of a ribbon mic is a matter of simple physics: The higher the mass, the more energy that will be required to excite air molecules in proximity to the transducer and cause it to move, hence its response to incoming sound pressure waves is slower. The lower the mass - you get the picture.


                          Source.

                          To me, a good ribbon may roll off the high frequencies a bit (thus sounding "darker" or less bright) but the detail (or "naturalness") they're famous for comes, in large part, from the low mass of the ribbon and the resulting relatively fast transient response.
                          **********

                          "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

                          - George Carlin

                          "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

                          - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                          "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

                          - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I use Octava's as overheads, they are modded and that was a clear improvement. I have often considered getting another for snare. I bought a pair of Josephon C-42's, these are definitely brighter and tend to be the go to mic's for acoustic guitar. Maybe that is being lazy or I spent $800 for these suckers they are going to get used! They are a really nice mic when acoustic instruments are the featured voice in a song. one makes a pretty good top snare drum mic as well. I also have a CAD E-100 I don't really use it that much. I may be selling off some of the above and buying more dynamics like the Heil's.
                            I have a Cascade stereo ribbon. It appears to be pretty sensitive to position and does not like being used in a horizontal plane. It rocks when used with a Zoom h4n in the vertical plane. I like it much better than the on-board condensers.

                            I have a mix of a song where i put my octava's and a pair of groove tubes large diapharm mics right next to each other, doing the equidistant pointing at the snare but over the tom's thing. so a large diapharam and a small diaphram right next to each other. i spot erased the large diaphragm using it only for the tom hits and it was one of my favorite drum mixes I've done. Something about the phase alignment worked quite well.
                            Tim Mayock

                            northfieldmusic.org
                            would have been a minister if it wasn't for all the religion, Would have been a police man if it wasn't for all those laws, now just a good samaritan when i can

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Hi Jo - good to see you again!

                              I hadn't heard of the Little Blondies before, so I went off on a Google search. Very interesting little omnis! They seem to sound pretty good based on their demo videos too. You must have a pretty decent sounding tracking room if you're using omni mikes for your overheads.


                              Yeah, I'm pretty happy with my room at this point. Lately I've been using the Blondie's in an ORTF setup as room mics, with the KSM32's (+/-20mm diaphragm IIRC) on drum overheads. The Blondie's aren't what I'd call "flat", as many SDC's are. They definitely have a "tailored" frequency response but a very nice one at that, that works great on many sources.

                              Here's a video of a song I produced for a band where I used the Blondies as overheads:


                              Here's a song I produced for a power metal band earlier this year with the KSM32 on overheads and the Blondies as room mics:
                              http://soundcloud.com/stridentmetal/strident-above-the-ashes
                              www.joellis.co.za/recordproduction/main.htm

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                There's a bit over on the Royer site that says it as well or better than I could, so here it is:

                                Due to the low mass of the element, ribbons exhibit extremely fast transient response, often equaling or exceeding that of condensers, depending on the size and composition of the diaphragm or ribbon.


                                I never knew that! That's what I get for not having a ribbon mic!!! Thanks! I really do learn something new every day (if not a bunch of things!).
                                Ken Lee on 500px / Ken's Photo Store / Ken Lee Photography Facebook Website / Blueberry Buddha Studios / Ajanta Palace Houseboat - Kashmir / Hotel Green View - Kashmir / Eleven Shadows website / Ken Lee Photography Blog / Akai 12-track tape transfers / MY NEW ALBUM! The Mercury Seven

                                Comment



                                Working...
                                X