anyone shot down by a guidance counselor?

[Ratae Corieltauvorum]

[YOUTUBE]JrTBlV-FGbc[/YOUTUBE]

[Faber]

In all fairness it is ALSO their job to impart a bit of realism -how many kids do they see who want to become astronauts, rock stars, ballet dancers etc? They wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't point out the difficulties in persuing those dreams. Once they've done that, they could try and support the kid though

[clay sails]

I couldnt believe this crap. naturally I told her that wasnt her decision to make, and that this was the right path for me, and that everyone i knew was supporting me. I went home and told my parents and private teachers and even my guitar teacher at the high school, all of which were shocked that this was the "guidance" i was getting. Luckily i haven't let it bother me too much. Im in school studying music production and jazz guitar, and will be starting my second year in the fall. If you all have any stories like that post em. Lets all share our emotion beatings from the one they call the "high school guidance counselor"

 

 

This "emotion beating" you received is actually pretty sound advice. She was speaking from statistics, which show that the U.S. is churning out vast numbers of musicians, poets, and creative writers: very few of whom ever become productive in those fields. Its better to get some "tough love" from her than it is to wake up ten years from now wondering how you spent 4 years and $80,000 on a degree that landed you a part time job at Kinkos.

 

College is about getting skills you'll need to succeed professionally. The artsy-fartsy idea that its about following your bliss went down the tube when the U.S. economy collapsed and our manufacturing base evaporated.

 

This counsellor knows that it is not her decision to make -- she is attempting to guide you. Who cares if she doesn't know your name? Get used to that.

 

If you truly are destined to be a musician, you'll find a way. You'll scramble, starve, and then you'll succeed. And maybe along the way you'll get someone to sign a slip of paper that says you mastered your scales, or maybe you won't. Either way: you have to battle past all the people who want to slow you down. That's what an artist has to do. If you don't make it, don't blame this lady for crushing your dreams. Your dreams don't need her approval.

[jamdogg]

Carney Lansford? Seriously?

when i worked for the usps i delivered mail to Bill Buckner's house - true story.

[strtdv]

My careers advisor was quite good.

 

They pretty much catered for everyone. If you had academic ability, they'd advise you to follow the traditional degree path (we're talking engineering, medicine etc here, not music/arts), but they were equally happy advising people to learn a trade.

 

They pretty much didn't care what you wanted to do, as long as you thought about it and had a reasonable plan.

 

I always wanted to do medicine, so that's the direction I took and I start my first year as an intern in August.

 

 

While your guidance counsellor may have seemed harsh, I've seen lots of people do arts and music at university and end up with jobs in Tesco (think UK Wall-mart). Occasionally one is good enough to make it as a professional musician, but the majority either aren't, or make just enough to scrape by.

[Surrealistic]

When I was a kid the standard guidance counselling seemed to be advice to either go to university, get a job in a bank or join the armed forces. I would't have dreamed of saying out loud that I wanted to be a musician - though I really should have.

[roughtrade]

The job market is in the toilet right now for most degrees.

I'm retired from one job working the next with the hope of retiring from here, 15 short years to go.

On this side, I will tell you that these people see themselves as doing you a favor be telling you to forget your dreams and follow the money trail. Well, the path is hard to find in any case and if you do you are always going to be haunted by whatever you decided to drop in favor of the safety. I want you to know it is also damn hard to go back and pick it up again after thirty years, but they don't talk about that.

I'm not saying that music is right for anyone, or that it is easy, but if someone doesn't follow their dream we will end up with NO musicians or teachers or artists. I don't want to live in that society. Follow your dream while you can.

[A_Gitarman]

While I don't have any guidance counselor stories (other than the one who tried to tell me I should be an architect, lol), but I will share my college experience as a music major:

I played the trumpet throughout high school, was always picked for first chair, & went to all-state and tri-state music festivals. Playing the trumpet was just about everything to me (even my guitar had taken a back seat to it ). I later found that several colleges were trying to recruit me for their programs, but my parents lacked the funding at the time, so I ended up starting out at the local community college (on a full scholarship).

After spending a couple years at CC, I went on to university to study music education (ed. was to be my fall-back in case the performance thing didn't work out). But, after about two years of hearing the same crap over and over, boring lecture classes with 50+ students, and a bad breakup with a girlfriend, I became completely burned out & just stopped caring about school.

I dropped out, moved in with a couple of friends who were headed out to Austin (one was going to UT, the other just wanted to get away from his folks, lol), & put my horn in it's case where it would stay for the better part of the next ten years.

I finally started back to school after meeting my wife. I finished up an AA degree from the local community college (only needed one class ) and went to FSU for my Bachelors in IS.

It wasn't until answering an ad looking for a 'lead guitarist' and finding out that the band wanted to cover a few tunes with horn parts a few years ago that I dusted off my trumpet and got to playing again... & you know what? It's fun again!

The only bad part? TAS (trumpet GAS) is WAAAAAAY more costly than guitar GAS

[d_dave_c]

when i worked for the usps i delivered mail to Bill Buckner's house - true story.

Did he drop the mail between his legs?

[Ralph onion]

My very prim and proper female advisor looked at my grades and told me to pursue a "trade." I earned an AA-BSE-MFA. I always kept my day job and beat the skins at night and on weekends. And I did it my way. Also spent 3 years in the Army.

[webwarmiller]

A bit harsh to say grow up and get a real job, but the GC should present the facts of the job world. There are a TON of liberal arts grads out there working behind fast food counters. My advice would be to get a degree that puts you in a specific profession: engineering, pharmacy, etc... If a 4 year college degree isn't for you then at least go and learn a trade that can be profitable.....marine mechanics can easily make $75 an hour as independents.

This doesn't mean you can't still learn and enjoy music. You'll have plenty of electives during college that you can fill with music classes.

[BryanMichael]

.02 from someone with many similar experiences to those in this thread.

The bottom line is that making money as a "professional musician" is a hard career path, as is ANYTHING in the arts. That much is true. That said, people make careers out of it every day. There are just different perceptions that people have about being a "professional musician" - to many (most?) young people it means being a "rock star" and having complete creative control and just being paid for being them and doing what they do. Is that POSSIBLE? sure. You might as well play the lottery as well when you are trying to "make it" because you have just as much chance of hitting that on your way to that career goal. TO many adults, they also hear a young person talk about a career as a "professional musician" and they hear "I wanna be a rock star!" (like the OP's experience) and so this dissuade you with the whole "that's not a real job" speech...because in essence, it is an unlikely, and perhaps unrealistic goal. BUT- like the OP, there are some people that really WANT to immerse themselves in the arts and make a serious study of it. They will be the studio musicians, film composers, Broadway orchestra players, and "go to" session guys of tomorrow. They will play in a million bands and a million styles and teach on the side and do session dates and make a career out of it. I had a friend that took that path. He studied music business in college, he stayed INVOLVED even in the retail end of it through college working at a drum store, he went to NAMM, he met celebrity endorsers, he became friends with people IN THE INDUSTRY so that when he was ready to move to Nashville from Ohio, he had contacts. He took on students, he taught. He volunteered to help set up established guys gear at their gigs. He played a million cover songs, he did jazz, country, pop, rock, he composed his own music for marimba, piano, guitar.

The point is that if you want to be a "musician" you have to decide what that means to you. If it means being a rock star, then good luck. Join a band or start one. Write songs, get in a van and tour the country. Record your albums, try to make it. If it means trhowing yourself into everything (like my friend, where style/genre don't matter and he is immersed in the MUSIC and willing to get up and work on any aspect of MUSIC to make a living) then you could do worse than to study music in college- I think the hardest part is to be honest with ourselves about what our chances are of succeeding, evaluating whether or not we have what it takes to do so, and how important it really is to us.

In my personal and very humble opinion- I would suggest a dual major in music and business,- the principles of business will serve you well in running your music career and if your music becomes something more "on the side" you have a legitimate knowledge base in your degree that applies to just about everything else- and studying music at the college level will push you into new areas and expand your limits. Or maybe a dual major with music and communication- communication is a good "catch all" degree- I know because I got one....finally at 35 That said- there are always avenues for learning music outside of college in the form of private teachers, seminars, workshops, etc... when you are good, people don't care if you have the degree- but in the "real world" (ahem) of job seeking, the degree becomes the differentiator between getting the interview or not- getting the job or not- so, if you must, think of the degree as an "insurance policy".


.02 from someone further down the road.

[soundcreation]

Did he drop the mail between his legs?

 

 

ahhh poor buckner....

 

him and mitch williams should start some kind of club....

 

poor bastards...

[Ralph onion]

.02 from someone with many similar experiences to those in this thread. The bottom line is that making money as a "professional musician" is a hard career path, as is ANYTHING in the arts. That much is true. That said, people make careers out of it every day. There are just different perceptions that people have about being a "professional musician" - to many (most?) young people it means being a "rock star" and having complete creative control and just being paid for being them and doing what they do. Is that POSSIBLE? sure. You might as well play the lottery as well when you are trying to "make it" because you have just as much chance of hitting that on your way to that career goal. TO many adults, they also hear a young person talk about a career as a "professional musician" and they hear "I wanna be a rock star!" (like the OP's experience) and so this dissuade you with the whole "that's not a real job" speech...because in essence, it is an unlikely, and perhaps unrealistic goal. BUT- like the OP, there are some people that really WANT to immerse themselves in the arts and make a serious study of it. They will be the studio musicians, film composers, Broadway orchestra players, and "go to" session guys of tomorrow. They will play in a million bands and a million styles and teach on the side and do session dates and make a career out of it. I had a friend that took that path. He studied music business in college, he stayed INVOLVED even in the retail end of it through college working at a drum store, he went to NAMM, he met celebrity endorsers, he became friends with people IN THE INDUSTRY so that when he was ready to move to Nashville from Ohio, he had contacts. He took on students, he taught. He volunteered to help set up established guys gear at their gigs. He played a million cover songs, he did jazz, country, pop, rock, he composed his own music for marimba, piano, guitar. The point is that if you want to be a "musician" you have to decide what that means to you. If it means being a rock star, then good luck. Join a band or start one. Write songs, get in a van and tour the country. Record your albums, try to make it. If it means trhowing yourself into everything (like my friend, where style/genre don't matter and he is immersed in the MUSIC and willing to get up and work on any aspect of MUSIC to make a living) then you could do worse than to study music in college- I think the hardest part is to be honest with ourselves about what our chances are of succeeding, evaluating whether or not we have what it takes to do so, and how important it really is to us. In my personal and very humble opinion- I would suggest a dual major in music and business,- the principles of business will serve you well in running your music career and if your music becomes something more "on the side" you have a legitimate knowledge base in your degree that applies to just about everything else- and studying music at the college level will push you into new areas and expand your limits. Or maybe a dual major with music and communication- communication is a good "catch all" degree- I know because I got one....finally at 35 That said- there are always avenues for learning music outside of college in the form of private teachers, seminars, workshops, etc... when you are good, people don't care if you have the degree- but in the "real world" (ahem) of job seeking, the degree becomes the differentiator between getting the interview or not- getting the job or not- so, if you must, think of the degree as an "insurance policy". .02 from someone further down the road.

Couldnt have said it better. Excellent reply!

[Yer Blues]

When I was 17-18 a very awesome musician I knew personally advised me to get a real job when I grew up. I wasn't very interested in school, but I stuck with it. Of course, while there I played in many bands and began to realize I had it pretty good. So many of these guys were in there 30s, 40s, or 50s and basically broke. Some of them would take whatever they could get for work to earn money, while others of them would just leave off of other people. It's cool when you are 21, not so much when you are 50.

Sounds like you are not on the "I want to be a rockstar" trip and are looking into more of a realistic type career in music. I would stay stick with it, but realize the compromises you may have to make in other areas of your life.

Good luck.

[dcindc]

My guidance counselor used to be the bassist for the Mamas and the Papas. He quit right before they got huge.

I pretty much quit listening to anything he had to say after I heard that.

I've had many careers and enjoyed them all.


I recommend college. It is an experience that you will always remember fondly.
But don't get some bull{censored} liberal arts degree. Get something you will get paid for. Then do what you want while you make too much money.

[SDshirtman]

.02 from someone with many similar experiences to those in this thread. The bottom line is that making money as a "professional musician" is a hard career path, as is ANYTHING in the arts. That much is true. That said, people make careers out of it every day. There are just different perceptions that people have about being a "professional musician" - to many (most?) young people it means being a "rock star" and having complete creative control and just being paid for being them and doing what they do. Is that POSSIBLE? sure. You might as well play the lottery as well when you are trying to "make it" because you have just as much chance of hitting that on your way to that career goal. TO many adults, they also hear a young person talk about a career as a "professional musician" and they hear "I wanna be a rock star!" (like the OP's experience) and so this dissuade you with the whole "that's not a real job" speech...because in essence, it is an unlikely, and perhaps unrealistic goal. BUT- like the OP, there are some people that really WANT to immerse themselves in the arts and make a serious study of it. They will be the studio musicians, film composers, Broadway orchestra players, and "go to" session guys of tomorrow. They will play in a million bands and a million styles and teach on the side and do session dates and make a career out of it. I had a friend that took that path. He studied music business in college, he stayed INVOLVED even in the retail end of it through college working at a drum store, he went to NAMM, he met celebrity endorsers, he became friends with people IN THE INDUSTRY so that when he was ready to move to Nashville from Ohio, he had contacts. He took on students, he taught. He volunteered to help set up established guys gear at their gigs. He played a million cover songs, he did jazz, country, pop, rock, he composed his own music for marimba, piano, guitar. The point is that if you want to be a "musician" you have to decide what that means to you. If it means being a rock star, then good luck. Join a band or start one. Write songs, get in a van and tour the country. Record your albums, try to make it. If it means trhowing yourself into everything (like my friend, where style/genre don't matter and he is immersed in the MUSIC and willing to get up and work on any aspect of MUSIC to make a living) then you could do worse than to study music in college- I think the hardest part is to be honest with ourselves about what our chances are of succeeding, evaluating whether or not we have what it takes to do so, and how important it really is to us. In my personal and very humble opinion- I would suggest a dual major in music and business,- the principles of business will serve you well in running your music career and if your music becomes something more "on the side" you have a legitimate knowledge base in your degree that applies to just about everything else- and studying music at the college level will push you into new areas and expand your limits. Or maybe a dual major with music and communication- communication is a good "catch all" degree- I know because I got one....finally at 35 That said- there are always avenues for learning music outside of college in the form of private teachers, seminars, workshops, etc... when you are good, people don't care if you have the degree- but in the "real world" (ahem) of job seeking, the degree becomes the differentiator between getting the interview or not- getting the job or not- so, if you must, think of the degree as an "insurance policy". .02 from someone further down the road.

Well put. This should end the thread.

[bsman]

Reminds me of the old joke:

 

Q: What's the difference between a mutual fund and a guitarist?

 

A: Someday, the mutual fund will mature...

[CoqBelliqueux]

when i worked for the usps i delivered mail to Bill Buckner's house - true story.

I thought you were Dutch.

[LAracer]

When I was in college I was also getting serious about guitar. I thought about changing my major from engineering to music. Had the forms filled out and everything.

I am so {censored}ing glad that I didn't.

[Riggins]

Hmmm, I remember my guidance counselor had an office in the back of the admin area in our HS, other than that I don't think I had one single encounter with him/her my whole HS life.

 

It's weird to hear some of you say that friends of yours whom have gone to college for music related studies are now destitute or barely scraping by. You'd think they could at least teach on a private level.

 

Hell, most of my friends here who are musicians in the area are teaching at local music stores and getting by just fine (of course they all gig as well).

[Zemmy]

When confronted with the "what kind of a career appeals to you?" question by my guidance counselor, I replied, "I want to go to a party every day and get paid to do it"

She told me that wasnt a reasonable expectation

Now I'm a DJ in a gentlenmen's club.

Now matter how outlandish your dreams may seem, anything is possible

[mutant_guitar]

Our school had 3 counselors, and one of them (the one I didn't have) tried her absolute hardest to steer all of her students away from music. Band and Chorus were credited/scheduled classes in our HS, and if there was any hint of a conflict between a music class and any other "real" class, she would try her hardest to talk you into quitting band/chorus.

My guidance counselor was a former Miss Pennsylvania, and majored in music her first year of college. She was sympathetic to my music interests, but I thought I didn't have the talent to make it in music, and went with engineering. She was pretty cool about music, and when I had scheduling conflicts caused by band, she helped me find a way around it rather than talk me into quitting band.

[Hubert Stumblin]

I think being successful in whatever you choose to do depends more upon how determined and flexible you are than what degree you earn. Sure, plenty of people who wanted to become "stars" are working at Walmart. But I'd imagine that if those same people said: "I wanna be a CPA" a good number of them would still end up working at Walmart. Because those people don't have the drive coupled with good sense to make a successful go at anything.

The post by BryanMichael illustrates that. That guy was determined to make it in some or any part of music. He was driven and flexible. You can be a "professional musician" in a way that can earn you a living without having to beat the 99% chance against you of becoming a "star".

I struggle everyday over what advice to give my daughters. Both are brilliant, artistic, creative kids. Some days I'm bittier and cynical and think I should tell them to major in money and they can minor in anything they want. But then they might live a life haunted by "what if". I worry that if they follow the path of "do what you love and you'll never have to work a day in your life" that they'll reach age 55 and realize...they have to keep working for the rest of their lives. It's hard. So, I'm hoping they have the determination and flexibilty to both earn a living and be creatively fulfilled

[23miles]

I go to Shenandoah Conservatory of music in winchester va. Its one of the better schools for music in my area, but not really known outside Virginia. The degree Im in is one of the only ones out there that combine a professionals degree with performance, so i get to study both equally, which is great, that way ill have performance skills and skills to get a solid job working somewhere as a sound engineer or a producer hopefully.

 

 

Now that things have worked out for you, you might want to think about taking some English classes. I'd recommend something along the lines of "English 102, Introduction to the Apostrophe, Contractions, and the Possessive Case."