Is a 100 Watt tube amp over kill?

[guitarman3001]

I have a 100 watt tube head and for the last 3 years all it has done is sit in a far corner of my closet collecting dust and making a nice home for spiders. I haven't gigged with anything more than 30 watts since I can remember and most of my gigs right now are with either a 22 watt or a 15 watt amp, and that's completely unmic'd and running just off stage volume. And some venues still complain that we're too loud.

 

But that is for indoor gigs. As a couple other people have said, for an outdoor gig 100 watts might come in pretty handy depending on the venue. If it's a small patio or outdoor bar gig, 30 watts would still be more than enough.

[onelife]

100Watts can hurt you if you are not careful but in some cases it's nice to have the headroom for high volume situations.

 

A 6L6 is only capable of putting out 30W so a 100W amp will require four of them in a 'push pull parallel' circuit. If you remove two tubes, one from each side of the circuit, you can run the amp at 50W which is still plenty.

[Jakey]

Yes.

 

100w should be regarded as "sufficient'.

 

 

(seriously, yes, yes- it's all about clean headroom)

[Flintc]

A 100W tube amp might be useful if you're playing Shea Stadium and the PA system goes out. But their PA system is pretty reliable, so I'd bet against this happening.

 

As for any indoor club I can imagine (including large indoor football arenas, etc.) I certainly wouldn't wish to be inside one anytime anyone was actually USING 100W. I treasure my ears.

 

My experience is that a 20W tube amp is all you should ever need. Any club that's too small for, will have a PA system anyway. You're trying to entertain your audience, not injure them. If you have another guitarist actually pushing his 150W Line6, don't try to compete with him. Instead, aim the 412 cab right at him, send his and everyone else's output to the DI, where your sound man can blend and balance the sound for your audience. Once his eardrums burst, turn his amp way back down, and let the sound guy rebalance.

[Jakey]

 

A 100W tube amp might be useful if you're playing Shea Stadium and the PA system goes out. But their PA system is pretty reliable, so I'd bet against this happening. As for any indoor club I can imagine (including large indoor football arenas, etc.) I certainly wouldn't wish to be inside one anytime anyone was actually USING 100W. I treasure my ears. My experience is that a 20W tube amp is all you should ever need. Any club that's too small for, will have a PA system anyway. You're trying to entertain your audience, not injure them. If you have another guitarist actually pushing his 150W Line6, don't try to compete with him. Instead, aim the 412 cab right at him, send his and everyone else's output to the DI, where your sound man can blend and balance the sound for your audience. Once his eardrums burst, turn his amp way back down, and let the sound guy rebalance.

 

 

I disagree with this in one aspect.

 

It really does depend on how you achieve your sound...yes I DO agree if you're using the amp with its own OD and maybe something like a TS9 in front...however, if you're using a much more pedal-generated tone and distortion, then headroom is everything to control the rig, and therefore 100w is fine, just turn the vol down a bit. As a bare min a Fender Twin is a great amp for this and that's 65w!

 

Besides, the difference between 50w and 100w thru a 4 x 12 is 3dB.

[Guit-mangler]

 

Love my C30 and all it can do but there I'm considering a Jet City 100h that's available here locally. My band is playing the typical club and party type gig and the other guitar player is blasting out through a 150 watt Line 6 and 4x12. I usually run the PV clean at about 8-9 to keep up even while using a CrunchBox and Fat Drove OD up front. Would 100 watts of tubage be just too damn much or is volume less an issue than the tone that comes with the extra juice? What's a boy to do?

 

 

Great advice here.. I say have both the C30 and the JCA100H.. I will disagree with some people though. For example, my 4x12 lives in the bands equipment trailer. When I know its going to be an easy night, I tote in my Vintage Club 50 2x12. When I know its going to be an insane night with alot of crowd, singing along, whooping and hollering, I roll the 4x12 out and perch the JCM900 on top of it. What I am saying is, sometimes overhead may be a necessity, and you never know what you are going to need in the spur of the moment. Believe me, nothings worse than when everyone is looking to you to turn up, and you're already at 10.

 

As a plus, with the JCA100H you'll probably find little need to touch your pedals much, they are a sweet sounding amp for the $... Do it!

[GilmourD]

 

Overkill? Well, you don't need that many watts, but if you want the amp, you can still get good use out of it. Generally speaking, a 150w solid state/digital amp isn't as loud as a tube amp of similar wattage.

 

That's a myth. A watt is a watt is a watt.

 

The difference is that most solid-state amps come with craptastic speakers that aren't as efficient. For instance... Peavey Blue Marvels in a lot of their solid-state stuff but Sheffields in a lot of their cabinets meant to be mated with tube amps.

 

Line6 stuff tends to come with pretty efficient speakers.

 

Wanna see something crazy? Get yourself a Lil' Smokey amp. Plug the output straight into a good 4x12, like a Marshall 1960A or a Peavey 412MS. Suddenly your junk will be vibrating due to a tiny 1-watt amp. Sure, it won't be nearly as loud as a 100-watter, but it's not quiet.

 

General rule of thumb... You want to double the volume (REMOVING ALL OTHER VARIABLES), multiply wattage by 10. That means that, through the same speaker cabinet, a 100-watt amp will be double the volume of a 10-watter and a 10-watter will be double the volume of a 1-watter.

 

http://www.axiomaudio.com/power.html

 

Now as far as the OP's question... Honestly, I'd love to have that amp. But I also run my stuff a bit different than most. I like my core sound to be LOUD but also CLEAN, like David Gilmour (my username namesake). I used to own a Fender Dual Showman head from 1966 that exemplified this. 80 watts and it would just barely start to get crunchy at around 8 or 9.

 

The Jet City JCA100H gets most of it's gain from the preamp, so running it full-tilt won't be necessary, unless you're going to dime it like Eddie Van Halen, at which point faces will melt, people may pass out, and you might get panties thrown at you.

 

How good that sound is going to depend on what speakers you run it through. What having that much wattage will give you is a good amount of clean headroom on the master volume control before the power tubes start to distort. If you play anything clean that just might be important to you.

[Canadian Jeff]

15-30w is what I consider sufficient. I like being able to push the power tubes way over the edge though so I gig a 5w VJ and just forget about clean tones.

[mistersully]

no... if you're playing huge outdoor gigs on big stages

 

yes... if you're fingerpicking lullabies for your gran

[ExiledCrow]

Yes, yes it is.

 

But it's awesome overkill, do it!

[DRPool]

 

A 100W tube amp might be useful if you're playing Shea Stadium and the PA system goes out. But their PA system is pretty reliable, so I'd bet against this happening. As for any indoor club I can imagine (including large indoor football arenas, etc.) I certainly wouldn't wish to be inside one anytime anyone was actually USING 100W. I treasure my ears. My experience is that a 20W tube amp is all you should ever need. Any club that's too small for, will have a PA system anyway. You're trying to entertain your audience, not injure them. If you have another guitarist actually pushing his 150W Line6, don't try to compete with him. Instead, aim the 412 cab right at him, send his and everyone else's output to the DI, where your sound man can blend and balance the sound for your audience. Once his eardrums burst, turn his amp way back down, and let the sound guy rebalance.

 

 

Thanks man...well played.

[joemonkey]

Are you in a Dinosaur Jr. or My Bloody Valentine cover band? If so, it can never be loud enough.

[tlbonehead]

a 30 watt amp is overkill for gigging for me.

[noah76]

 

That's a myth. A watt is a watt is a watt.

 

 

Thank you I was just going to say that. I have no clue how a tube watt is not the same as a SS watt.

[Brian Krashpad]

I don't know I'd personally ever need 100W. Not tube, certainly. For a good long while the other guitarist in Crash Pad used a 100W Marshall JCM 2000, and my 40W Super Reverb 4x10 had no prob keeping up. Iirc it was @ around 6, volume-wise.

 

I pretty much live in the 40-60W tube amp range, all three of my big-boy all-tube amps are there (Super @ 40, Sovtek @ 50, Sunn @ 60).

[jtr654]

I have many 100 watt( Marshall & Fuchs) amps and 50 watt (Marshall.Kittyhawk,Peaveyand Fender)and 15 watt amps( PR & Pro jr)that Ive played out with. Only at concerts or large outdoor gigs have the 100 watt Marshall not been overkill the Fuchs sounds the same at a whisper to way to loud. 50 watts are more than enough for most gigs. The 15 watts amps I use in Stereo and they to are more than enough. I've done sound for large auditoriums and and most SS amps really don't have the projection of a tube amp. Most of the amps were Line 6 or other Modeling amp with 100+watt and they just could not keep up with a 50 watt marshall combo 2x12 or a Mesa 50 rec. with a 4x12.

[Brian Krashpad]

 

That's a myth. A watt is a watt is a watt.

 

 

True.

 

But your science is ignoring the human factor.

 

A watt may be a watt. But perceived loudness won't be the same from solid state as it will be from tubes. Just won't. There's a reason people talk about "tube watts," and it's not because they're perpetuating any myth. They're accurately describing what they hear.

[scott944]

I was just playing my 100 watt, all tube Carvin MTS-3200 through a Lopoline 2x12 in my family room. But, the basis of my setup is a big, shimmering clean, with dirt added by pedal (Blackstar HT-Dual) - so no need or desire for power tube breakup. I can play at virtually any volume, from noodling whist watching TV to pain inducing, with this setup. Like the Jet City that the OP is looking at, part of the appeal of my setup is that it was purchased used for next to nothing. The only downside? Heavy!

[Peaveyaddict]

Unless you're playing a pretty big place, yeah, 100w is overkill. To me, an amp really sounds best when it is being pushed somewhat, and a 100w amp being pushed any at all is freaking loud. I was at a fairly small club once where the guitarist was using a strat and one of those Fender Blues Deville's (60w 2X12 combo I believe). He was pushing the amp pretty good and he had a gorgeous tone going. But it was way too loud for the place.

[GilmourD]

 

True. But your science is ignoring the human factor. A watt may be a watt. But perceived loudness won't be the same from solid state as it will be from tubes. Just won't. There's a reason people talk about "tube watts," and it's not because they're perpetuating any myth. They're accurately describing what they hear.

 

That's why I substantiated it by speaking about speaker efficiency and the fact that most solid-state amps come packaged with inferior speakers. Run a 100-watt Raven craptastic head and a Marshall model 1959 Plexi through the same Marshal 1960A cabinet and they'll be just as loud as each other while outputting the same actual wattage (which isn't the same as the same setting on the volume knob).

 

Now... Here's the interesting fact that most don't know that does fudge the details. A 100-watt solid-state amp is rated at maximum output at a certain THD (Total Harmonic Distortion). Same thing for tube amps. However, put a Plexi on a scope with everything dimed and pounding the front end of it with a hot pickup and you'll probably actually see about 150 watts. Of course that would not be at the rated THD but distorting like a mofo. Put replace that hot pickup with something with a nice low vintage output and don't smack the crap out of the strings and you're right back at the rated 100 watts.

 

Variations in outlet voltage will also affect things. Most vintage amps were designed for 110VAC and most modern outlets put out 120VAC, which means there's a higher plate voltage, and thus the amps are actually running at a higher output wattage than they were originally rated.

[DaveGrima]

As far as the tube amps being louder than solid state thing goes, I read in a guitar magazine that the human ear perceives tube amps as louder because of something to do with even-order harmonics or something. At least tube distortion sounded louder than solid state. I cant remember the details but it was a very credible source.

[Brian Krashpad]

 

That's why I substantiated it by speaking about speaker efficiency and the fact that most solid-state amps come packaged with inferior speakers. Run a 100-watt Raven craptastic head and a Marshall model 1959 Plexi through the same Marshal 1960A cabinet and they'll be just as loud as each other while outputting the same actual wattage (which isn't the same as the same setting on the volume knob). Now... Here's the interesting fact that most don't know that does fudge the details. A 100-watt solid-state amp is rated at maximum output at a certain THD (Total Harmonic Distortion). Same thing for tube amps. However, put a Plexi on a scope with everything dimed and pounding the front end of it with a hot pickup and you'll probably actually see about 150 watts. Of course that would not be at the rated THD but distorting like a mofo. Put replace that hot pickup with something with a nice low vintage output and don't smack the crap out of the strings and you're right back at the rated 100 watts. Variations in outlet voltage will also affect things. Most vintage amps were designed for 110VAC and most modern outlets put out 120VAC, which means there's a higher plate voltage, and thus the amps are actually running at a higher output wattage than they were originally rated.

 

 

No.

 

You're just replacing one set of non-human factors with others.

 

Human ears are not dB meters. You put the Raven craptastic 100W head and the tube 100W head through the same cab and a dB meter will say they're the same loudness.

 

A majority of humans, however, will not.

 

Music isn't listened to by dB meters. Most people will tell you the tube amp is louder.

[benzem]

 

Love my C30 and all it can do but there I'm considering a Jet City 100h that's available here locally. My band is playing the typical club and party type gig and the other guitar player is blasting out through a 150 watt Line 6 and 4x12. I usually run the PV clean at about 8-9 to keep up even while using a CrunchBox and Fat Drove OD up front. Would 100 watts of tubage be just too damn much or is volume less an issue than the tone that comes with the extra juice? What's a boy to do?

 

 

Ya well the PV (I own one) at 8-9 is driving hard so YOU need to decide if you like that breakup, and just need it louder. If so, I would set that C30 right up on a 4x12 and let it scream

 

If ya want some clean hdroom, get the 100 watt.

 

I don't agree that automatically 100 watt is OVERKILL:facepalm: No way. It just depends on what you need.

[Grant Harding]

I love that so many people assume that just having a 100w amp at a gig means you're going to crank it and play full volume for the entire night. I think I've been to some of your gigs. There's a volume control...

 

I use an 80w tube amp and it's just right for me no matter what size the venue is. It's important for my music to be able to have a loud punchy clean sound for some leads and you can't fake that with a 15w amp. I'm obviously not going to crank the gain channel and cause ear bleed. My amp sounds great at any volume and with pedals I can get gain at any volume.

 

Remember that 80w is only twice as loud as 8w.

[bluesnapper]

I think one of the problems is that there are very few top quality low-watt tube amps on the market - especially for the high-gain br00tlz market. Sure, a Blues Jnr is a pretty good amp, but it's hardly in the same league as a Bassman or Twin. Similarly the Marshall Class 5 is a great amp, but not compared to a dimed Plexi.

 

Some very well-designed low-watt tube amps do exist - and that number is increasing as more people look for a low-powered solution. Most of them are very expensive - boutique builders like Cornford, Cornell and others in the UK, for example, but I've been impressed with other 'cheaper' models - Orange make a good 15Wer. Doc Jeffery goes on and on about his Marshall 1974 18Wer (although they aren't cheap either!).

 

Amp (and speaker, and PA!!) design is getting better. 100W still has its place, but is becoming increasingly unnecessary.