Members pathofspirit Posted June 14, 2012 Members Share Posted June 14, 2012 I realize I'm getting to this thread a bit late but I'll chime in by saying I had a Peavey Classic 50 (tube) and was WAY overpowered. It was a great amp but all I managed to do was anger the neighbors. Granted; I play blues and those who play something more aggressive might see it differently but 50 watts would seem to be plenty. BTW - I get the whole "a watt is a watt" argument but I never heard a 50 watt solid state that could come close to the Classic 50 in terms of power. Is it really just the way I hear things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ratae Corieltauvorum Posted June 14, 2012 Moderators Share Posted June 14, 2012 I remember a time past when this thread would have been Is a 100 watt tube amp anywhere near enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ratae Corieltauvorum Posted June 14, 2012 Moderators Share Posted June 14, 2012 High wattage power amps have been pretty standard for hi-gain amps from some time. The idea is to keep the power amp clean so the overall sound doesn't get too muddy. And we are talking a Soldano cascading gain stage design. So, ideally, you won't be pushing the amp over 100-watts and into peak wattage. If we were talking Marshall Plexi, than you may have a miserable time finding an application for a 100-watt amp, but talking Soldano, it's just volume you don't have to use.And, if you needed to get to get a sweet spot, you can pull two power tubes, check the bias, and relabel your speaker outs (16 becomes 8...8 becomes 4) and run it as a ~60-watt amp.If you ever play an outdoor gig, then 100-watts and a closed-back cab become very handy. How did Wyatt's post bypass everyone's notice? The thread needed not have progressed past this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted June 14, 2012 Members Share Posted June 14, 2012 I realize I'm getting to this thread a bit late but I'll chime in by saying I had a Peavey Classic 50 (tube) and was WAY overpowered. It was a great amp but all I managed to do was anger the neighbors. Granted; I play blues and those who play something more aggressive might see it differently but 50 watts would seem to be plenty. BTW - I get the whole "a watt is a watt" argument but I never heard a 50 watt solid state that could come close to the Classic 50 in terms of power. Is it really just the way I hear things? Why didn't you just turn it down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ratae Corieltauvorum Posted June 14, 2012 Moderators Share Posted June 14, 2012 Why didn't you just turn it down? Probably the reason Ferrari owners don't drive slowly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GilmourD Posted June 14, 2012 Members Share Posted June 14, 2012 No.You're just replacing one set of non-human factors with others.Human ears are not dB meters. You put the Raven craptastic 100W head and the tube 100W head through the same cab and a dB meter will say they're the same loudness.A majority of humans, however, will not.Music isn't listened to by dB meters. Most people will tell you the tube amp is louder. I dunno, man. Dimebag Darrel was pretty damn loud and he was playing solid-state amps until not long before his death. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GilmourD Posted June 14, 2012 Members Share Posted June 14, 2012 Now as far as the OP's question... Honestly, I'd love to have that amp. But I also run my stuff a bit different than most. I like my core sound to be LOUD but also CLEAN, like David Gilmour (my username namesake). I used to own a Fender Dual Showman head from 1966 that exemplified this. 80 watts and it would just barely start to get crunchy at around 8 or 9.The Jet City JCA100H gets most of it's gain from the preamp, so running it full-tilt won't be necessary, unless you're going to dime it like Eddie Van Halen, at which point faces will melt, people may pass out, and you might get panties thrown at you. How good that sound is going to depend on what speakers you run it through. What having that much wattage will give you is a good amount of clean headroom on the master volume control before the power tubes start to distort. If you play anything clean that just might be important to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members csm Posted June 14, 2012 Members Share Posted June 14, 2012 Unless you're playing a pretty big place, yeah, 100w is overkill. To me, an amp really sounds best when it is being pushed somewhat, and a 100w amp being pushed any at all is freaking loud. I was at a fairly small club once where the guitarist was using a strat and one of those Fender Blues Deville's (60w 2X12 combo I believe). He was pushing the amp pretty good and he had a gorgeous tone going. But it was way too loud for the place. Big truth. You'd have to be playing some fairly large venues to be able to open up a 100w amp without simply plastering people against the back wall bleeding from the ears and eyes. A Twin Reverb (a mere 85w in classic form) can kill small insects before it even starts to distort, and even my 45w 4x10 Super Reverb needs to be handled fairly carefully in clubs -- it sounds best at 5 or 6, and that can be fairly loud in a small place. Hell, I used to get {censored} from soundmen about an AC30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members notjonahbutnoah Posted June 14, 2012 Members Share Posted June 14, 2012 It's just a tonal thing dudez. 100 watters sound different than 30 watters when at gig volume. Try to get pristine sparkle clean over my goddamn drummer with 30 watts. Go ahead. TRY IT! I NEED my headroom. I mean at this point, I'm playing along with a Triple Recto/Mesa 412, a Mesa M200o/Ampeg 8 or 6-10, and a drummer who absolutely punishes his drums. He has one of those Spaun snares with lungs as big around as beer cans. Say again: I NEED my headroom. We have some ska/reggae parts where I want clean cleans. I'm not arguing that your amp sounds better on the 100 watts setting, however that doesn't necessarily mean it sounds better because it's 100 watts. Especially with what you said about the gain. Gain and power output are independant things. I think it probably does though since the absolute only thing I touch when doing this is the 50/100w switch. When in the 50 w setting, at practice/gig volume, I get a little power tube breakup, and I don't care for it. Ok, gain and power output are indeed different things, but they are closely linked. You push your power to it's maximum output, you get more gain. That's just how tube amps are. Me? I like to not have my amp anywhere near all the way up, and get my gain from a pedal. So in my setup they are independent, but for others, getting that power amp to just the right spot is absolutely essential. It's whatever floats your boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members craigny Posted June 14, 2012 Members Share Posted June 14, 2012 100 watts tube is alot unless your playing a huge venue and possibly not having your guitar miced up...to get full saturation you really need to crank that badboy and 100w cranked is L O U D...however alot of tube amps these days allow for some kind of output eduction and theres always attenuation....I have my 50W Marshall head and it is plenty loud...my 65W Egnater hasent seen full crank either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blackface Posted June 14, 2012 Members Share Posted June 14, 2012 I think it probably does though since the absolute only thing I touch when doing this is the 50/100w switch. When in the 50 w setting, at practice/gig volume, I get a little power tube breakup, and I don't care for it. That switch cuts the power somehow though. It either cuts some tubes out or turns on some kind of attenuator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Krashpad Posted June 14, 2012 Members Share Posted June 14, 2012 I dunno, man. Dimebag Darrel was pretty damn loud and he was playing solid-state amps until not long before his death. LOL Something on which we agree! That said, I'd note that the "Dime" model solid state amp currently being sold, despite it's "D100" model number, is actually a 120W amp, as was the "Krankenstein" model he developed with Krank. And at least one of the earlier Randalls he played, if it's model number can be given any credence, may've been double the wattage of a 100 Watter ("Randall Century 200"). Another Randall he used, the Warhead, is supposedly 300W. So I'll agree to your Dimebag example, but posit that it tends to prove my point instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members notjonahbutnoah Posted June 14, 2012 Members Share Posted June 14, 2012 That switch cuts the power somehow though. It either cuts some tubes out or turns on some kind of attenuator. Right, it cuts the middle two power tubes, you can see them dim slightly when you flip it to 50. So it sounds different because of the wattage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted June 14, 2012 Members Share Posted June 14, 2012 Another point I don't think has been mentioned is tube life. I like the fact that my amp isn't getting it's ass kicked by running at the limit constantly. I know that's the holy grail for many, but even at 1/4 volume the gain channel on my amp sounds great and I have lots of volume in reserve for bigger outdoor venues or really loud clean leads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xrleroyx Posted June 14, 2012 Members Share Posted June 14, 2012 Are you in a Dinosaur Jr. or My Bloody Valentine cover band? If so, it can never be loud enough. This is mainly why I got my '71 Super Lead. I love being loud. But it can also provide me the clean headroom that I require for playing jazz. I have never had as powerful of an amp as this, but it's an awesome thing to own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted June 14, 2012 Members Share Posted June 14, 2012 Another point I don't think has been mentioned is tube life. I like the fact that my amp isn't getting it's ass kicked by running at the limit constantly. I know that's the holy grail for many, but even at 1/4 volume the gain channel on my amp sounds great and I have lots of volume in reserve for bigger outdoor venues or really loud clean leads. Good Point. My Mesa Boogie Subway Blues eats EL84s. It is a 20W amp that I run on half power and turn it all the way up - the half power jack has a 8ohm 20W resistor in series so it provides no relief for the tubes. I can usually get a full year or more out of a set of 6L6s in a Fender amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GilmourD Posted June 14, 2012 Members Share Posted June 14, 2012 Something on which we agree! That said, I'd note that the "Dime" model solid state amp currently being sold, despite it's "D100" model number, is actually a 120W amp, as was the "Krankenstein" model he developed with Krank. And at least one of the earlier Randalls he played, if it's model number can be given any credence, may've been double the wattage of a 100 Watter ("Randall Century 200"). Another Randall he used, the Warhead, is supposedly 300W. So I'll agree to your Dimebag example, but posit that it tends to prove my point instead. I think the hard part about it all is that some tube amps are underrated. Like I said above a Plexi can actually put out 150 watts but it's rated at 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Krashpad Posted June 14, 2012 Members Share Posted June 14, 2012 I think the hard part about it all is that some tube amps are underrated. Like I said above a Plexi can actually put out 150 watts but it's rated at 100. Again we agree. Ratings are notoriously deceptive, depending on the amp, in either direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pathofspirit Posted June 14, 2012 Members Share Posted June 14, 2012 Why didn't you just turn it down?Because there's a real thrill in being in my 50s and still being able to tork people up with an electric guitar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted June 14, 2012 Members Share Posted June 14, 2012 the main thing about tube amps is that they remain fairly clear and musical sounding well above their totally clean capability. SS amps on the other hand, well you know when they are starting to clip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted June 14, 2012 Members Share Posted June 14, 2012 Because there's a real thrill in being in my 50s and still being able to tork people up with an electric guitar! I get that, but that means the amp is loud enough for what you want to do with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Darkstorm Posted June 15, 2012 Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 I'll agree with earlier poster who said 50 watts of tube power is plenty for anyone and 100 watts is overkill for tube power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members notjonahbutnoah Posted June 15, 2012 Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 Obviously there's the whole thing where tube amps seem to sound better louder. That probably contributes to the perceived volume, but I have to wonder if it doesn't have a lot to do with the fact that most of the time tube amps are being pushed through nicer, more efficient speakers than the ones that are in solid state combos/matching cabinets. I'll tell ya there is a WORLD of difference between this cabinet: and this one: I reckon if you have that second one, you're not putting a solid state head through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted June 15, 2012 Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 I'll get an amp less than 80w when Reinhold Bogner makes a 20W Shiva... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sillypeoples Posted June 15, 2012 Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 Love my C30 and all it can do but there I'm considering a Jet City 100h that's available here locally. My band is playing the typical club and party type gig and the other guitar player is blasting out through a 150 watt Line 6 and 4x12.I usually run the PV clean at about 8-9 to keep up even while using a CrunchBox and Fat Drove OD up front. Would 100 watts of tubage be just too damn much or is volume less an issue than the tone that comes with the extra juice?What's a boy to do? Dude I played out with a Classic 30..only once did I get it UP to 5/6. So yeah, maybe you need a half stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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