Singers using music stands with lyric sheets

[rodclement]

Am I getting this correctly? This is o.k., but a music stand is not? Isn't this just a digital music stand?

 

 

I am not saying one thing or the other, just sharing what I use. I have stated my point already in previous posts.

 

Rod

[chemikool]

Another hour for lunch to prowl on HC/SSS!

Easy, how much did your band make in the last week compared to mine. We made $6400.00 for 3 nights.

This man knows how to prove his point. You can't argue against results like this.

Actually, and that chemist scientist dude might be able to help me on this bad boy, a hypothesis is more what you're talking about. A theory has already been proven/verified and is widely accepted to be true. OK...I'm a dork

Agreed...it would be a hypothesis...and also agreed...you're a dork! (just like me, takes one to know one, just a joke, please do not be offended)

Actually, no. The theory of relativity was never proven by Einstein. He wrote it while working as a patent clerk. You'd have to approach the speed of light to prove it, I believe. And I KNOW I'm a dork. No facepalm required

Yes...kinda hard to get to the speed of light to test the theory properly. BUT Einstein did also have an equation for special relativity which does SEEM to work...and of course he recanted later in life saying it was all wrong (when evidence points to it being right; "god does not play dice"...etc) so even Einstein thought Einstein's equations were crazy. As my old mechanics professor used to say: "Momentum is a mutha!"

He 'proved' it mathematically

The facepalm was only because we're discussing physics in a band forum

Did I accidently log in to Science and Nature instead of HC? WTH is going on with my computer?
One day I'll log into HC and we'll be talking about the unified energy/force equation!

Don't try to follow the logic that an old school music stand is lame and lazy on-stage but an ipod or a digital reader or words taped on the monitors or 3x5 note cards are all ok...

Logic? In my Backstage With The Band? I really did log in to the wrong site today!

And now...for the hater:

If I was in a band with you

I'll stop you right there...never gonna happen. Throwing sticks at me? Really dude? Are you 12 years old? /ITG on!

And Darga19 - I have no beef with you bro...we disagree on some small detail of being in a rock band and that is that. We both have full schedules, good situations, etc...No reason for name calling. Do I have an ego? Sure. We all do. If I came across as an ego-maniac, there isn't much I can do about that for this thread, and I do apologize if I rubbed you the wrong way.

HOWEVER...I still stand by my statement about the singer being in control. Let me refine this a bit more. Of course any performer being incapacitated will hinder the show, but if the singer is the one incapacitated it will be the MOST detrimental to the show relative to the other chairs. Most people come to see, identify with and look at the singer...not so much the others (sorry Kmart). This means the singer has more control. If the singer is READING LYRICS OFF OF A MUSIC STAND...then nobody is in control.

[joshmac]

nono I wasnt calling you dorky. Just the super high tech music stand. I see how it would be useful though, it just doesnt vibe with how I like the stage to look when I play. I think Id like it better if it was incorporated into an existing stand instead of getting its own.

Also, assuming your comment about my band wasnt tongue in cheek, thanks haha.

[rodclement]

nono I wasnt calling you dorky. Just the super high tech music stand. I see how it would be useful though, it just doesnt vibe with how I like the stage to look when I play. I think Id like it better if it was incorporated into an existing stand instead of getting its own. Also, assuming your comment about my band wasnt tongue in cheek, thanks haha.

 

 

Comment was sincere. The same stand holds my personal monitor on top of it, just didn;t feel like dragging that out of my car to set it up, so it does share an exisiting stand that would be there in any case. As I stated before, if I was in a party band and not in a acoustic duo, my view on the thing would be different.

 

Rod

[guitarguy19]

HOWEVER...I still stand by my statement about the singer being in control. Let me refine this a bit more. Of course any performer being incapacitated will hinder the show, but if the singer is the one incapacitated it will be the MOST detrimental to the show relative to the other chairs.

I would agree with this if you mean slightly or somewhat incapacitated, i.e. making mistakes all over the place or something. But you said "too high or drunk to finish the show" or "shows up late or not at all". Stuff like that it makes no difference who don' it...same results.

But I get what you mean I think...I just don't like the 'control' part...maybe because in my band there isn't one person that calls the shots. We all agree on how things should go. As the band leader, anything I handle without the others' input, they want me to handle that way.

On stage, the one with the microphone does 'got the power' though! I get ya.

[modulusman]

That's GREAT money for sure. If you can PROVE that the lack of music stands onstage is the reason for your band's success.....I'm listening.....

Well in your original post you also mentioned shorts,drinking and eating onstage. My singer/guitarist has a small music stand that clips onto his mic stand. He sometimes will use this on a new song until he memorizes the words. We are playing a wedding this weekend where we will play two songs that we played last night for the first time together as a band. One of them is "I cross my Heart" by George Strait, lots of chords to that song so we will use stands and cheat sheats. I also play with another band where the guitarist/singer uses a stand ALL the time. He also wears t-shirts /shorts, doesn't interact with the crowd and never has band practice. I make about 1/4 as much at night with this band.

[New Trail]

 

...We are playing a wedding this weekend where we will play two songs that we played last night for the first time together as a band. One of them is "I cross my Heart" by George Strait, lots of chords to that song so we will use stands and cheat sheats. I also play with another band where the guitarist/singer uses a stand ALL the time. He also wears t-shirts /shorts, doesn't interact with the crowd and never has band practice. I make about 1/4 as much at night with this band.

 

 

Well, that makes a LOT more sense. I'm willing to bet that song selection (playing the crowd pleasin' songs) and presentation has much more to do with the success of band #1 than the use or non-use of a music stand. I personally don't like music stands, either, FWIW, but the difference is that I realize that sometimes they have to be utilized, and that use of them does not indicate laziness or a brain defect. Also, I don't think that that ONE thing is a deal-breaker for the audience, at least the part of the audience that is not other musicians. I doubt that they notice it. OTOH a long time between songs while lyrics are located is something that they WILL notice.

[rodclement]

Here is the "rig" as I use it, the same stand holds my monitor and tablet, no more, no less...



Rod

[TIMKEYS]

Well, that makes a LOT more sense. I'm willing to bet that song selection (playing the crowd pleasin' songs) and presentation has much more to do with the success of band #1 than the use or non-use of a music stand. I personally don't like music stands, either, FWIW, but the difference is that I realize that sometimes they have to be utilized, and that use of them does not indicate laziness or a brain defect. Also, I don't think that that ONE thing is a deal-breaker for the audience, at least the part of the audience that is not other musicians. I doubt that they notice it. OTOH a long time between songs while lyrics are located is something that they WILL notice.

 

 

 

Being willing to travel like this has alot to do with what band one makes too.

. Friday we are driving 550 miles one way to play a street dance on Saturday in one of guitar players home town. Driving back on Monday thats like 17 hours of driving.

[kmart]

Actually, no. He 'proved' it mathematically (with his series of Einstein's Equations or whatever) and through a series of controlled observations...some crap about the planet aligning with the stars and stuff. I don't know a lot else about it. It's not a law (like Newton's Laws for example) because of the potential gap between mathematical models and reality. The facepalm was only because we're discussing physics in a band forum

 

Let's continue the geekery.

 

Sorry, Einstein did not PROVE the theory of relativity. That's why it's called a THEORY; in science, that means it's something that CAN NOT be proven.

In this case, AE came to a conclusion based on VERY sound reasoning and known entities (facts), saw how they all related and make a deduction.

 

The theory of relativity MAY be true, MAY be factual...but it's never been proven.

It's never been dis-proven, either, and since scientific evidence TO DATE still backs AE, the theory stands.

 

A HYPOTHESIS, on the other hand, is something you'd come to a step or two BEFORE you developed a theory. More guesswork based on evidence at hand, less clear backing of that guesswork, however.

 

 

 

A HYPOTH

[New Trail]

These guys, including the lead singer, are using music stands so they must be lazy or brain dead and don't make $6400 for three nights work. They SUCK!

 

 

[TIMKEYS]

These guys, including the lead singer, are using music stands so they must be lazy or brain dead and don't make $6400 for three nights work. They SUCK! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylr2D4Pwn58

 

 

You look around that stage and there are charts on the floor in front of the back up singers, at the keyboard and in front of the guitar player on the floor ,, It looks like there is another big old chart on the floor that must be 20 x20 up by the monitors. those guys are just hacks lol

[modulusman]

These guys, including the lead singer, are using music stands so they must be lazy or brain dead and don't make $6400 for three nights work. They SUCK! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylr2D4Pwn58

Well they are not wearing shorts either.

[kmart]

 

These guys, including the lead singer, are using music stands so they must be lazy or brain dead and don't make $6400 for three nights work. They SUCK! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylr2D4Pwn58

 

 

Well at this advanced stage of the game, given the history, I certainly wouldn't rule out brain dead...

 

 

I'll tell you what: for EVERY SINGLE PERSON in the world who is anti-music stands, I feel comfortable making the following concession:

When you, or anybody else on the planet, are as successful, recognized and long-in-career as Misters Becker & Fagen, music stand away!!!

 

Until that time, however, who are you again?

 

That's right: you're nobody playing a club, with a music stand on the stage.

[New Trail]

 

Well at this advanced stage of the game, given the history, I certainly wouldn't rule out brain dead.......

 

 

Well, THAT'S true!

[wardjames]

These guys, including the lead singer, are using music stands so they must be lazy or brain dead and don't make $6400 for three nights work. They SUCK! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylr2D4Pwn58

 

 

I don't think comparisons to legendary bands to us is useful in this argument. I guarantee you Steely Dan didn't use stands back in the day when they were an up and coming band trying to break out.

 

I mean, I've seen footage of Vince Gill wearing shorts on stage, with his big, hairy legs flopping around the stage in all their glory...but he's Vince Gill, and he can get away with it.

 

Can you get away with stands? Yes.

 

Does it detract from your performance, if only subconsciously to your audience? Yes.

 

If you're famous can you get away with (1) using a stand, while (2) wearing shorts while (3) playing to backing tracks while (4) taking 2 minutes between each song to retune and ask your bandmembers what song you're playing next? ABSOLUTELY!

 

Does the previous paragraph mean that most people here should be emulating that? No.

 

If you're getting all the gigs you want, in the venues you want, with the audience you want, for the pay you want, should you be worried about the stand? NO.

 

If you're currently using stands and you want to figure out how to make your show better so you can move up the gigging band food chain should you lose the stands? YUP!

[modulusman]

I don't think comparisons to legendary bands to us is useful in this argument. I guarantee you Steely Dan didn't use stands back in the day when they were an up and coming band trying to break out. I mean, I've seen footage of Vince Gill wearing shorts on stage, with his big, hairy legs flopping around the stage in all their glory...but he's Vince Gill, and he can get away with it. Can you get away with stands? Yes. Does it detract from your performance, if only subconsciously to your audience? Yes. If you're famous can you get away with (1) using a stand, while (2) wearing shorts while (3) playing to backing tracks while (4) taking 2 minutes between each song to retune and ask your bandmembers what song you're playing next? ABSOLUTELY! Does the previous paragraph mean that most people here should be emulating that? No. If you're getting all the gigs you want, in the venues you want, with the audience you want, for the pay you want, should you be worried about the stand? NO. If you're currently using stands and you want to figure out how to make your show better so you can move up the gigging band food chain should you lose the stands? YUP!

Wardjames for the win. Good post.

[TrickyBoy]

Wardjames for the win. Good post.

 

I was thinking the exact same thing.

[TIMKEYS]

I don't think comparisons to legendary bands to us is useful in this argument. I guarantee you Steely Dan didn't use stands back in the day when they were an up and coming band trying to break out. I mean, I've seen footage of Vince Gill wearing shorts on stage, with his big, hairy legs flopping around the stage in all their glory...but he's Vince Gill, and he can get away with it. Can you get away with stands? Yes. Does it detract from your performance, if only subconsciously to your audience? Yes. If you're famous can you get away with (1) using a stand, while (2) wearing shorts while (3) playing to backing tracks while (4) taking 2 minutes between each song to retune and ask your bandmembers what song you're playing next? ABSOLUTELY! Does the previous paragraph mean that most people here should be emulating that? No. If you're getting all the gigs you want, in the venues you want, with the audience you want, for the pay you want, should you be worried about the stand? NO. If you're currently using stands and you want to figure out how to make your show better so you can move up the gigging band food chain should you lose the stands ? YUP!

1 lose the stands
2 lose 30 pounds
3 get hair plugs and a dye job
4 get a face lift
5 ditch the glasses and let them grind on your cornea
6 play lady gaga to a bunch of drunk kids that wont even remember the name of your band in the morning.

Oh the trauma of being a weekend rock star lol

Welp gotta go play ,,, holy crap i got shorts on ,, oh nooooos fkit

[wardjames]

1 lose the stands 2 lose 30 pounds 3 get hair plugs and a dye job 4 get a face lift 5 ditch the glasses and let them grind on your cornea 6 play lady gaga to a bunch of drunk kids that wont even remember the name of your band in the morning. Oh the trauma of being a weekend rock star lol Welp gotta go play ,,, holy crap i got shorts on ,, oh nooooos fkit

LOL. You're the smartest one out of all of us. (1) You play in Texas, where you can get away with the singer songwriter stuff I like; (2) You play a style of music where shorts are almost mandatory; and (3) you play keys, so it's easy to hide a stand if you wanted.

[Vito Corleone]

Our horn section wasn't "backline" at all. They were prominently situated out front just to the side of the front man/vocalist, a featured part of our performance. The trumpet solo from behind the stand? He got resounding ovations and whistles every time. Nobody in the audience seemed to care in the least.

 

 

From BEHIND THE STAND.

 

Are you suggesting that lead singers should sing from behind one of those "big band" type stands with the logo/name of the band on it??

[Vito Corleone]

These guys, including the lead singer, are using music stands so they must be lazy or brain dead and don't make $6400 for three nights work. They SUCK! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylr2D4Pwn58

 

 

LOL..THAT'S your proof that stands don't matter? STEELY DAN? You're right, New Trail. After we've all had 6 or 7 million selling albums, we can get away with music stands. Let's all meet back in this thread after we've all done that, OK?

 

And besides, back when Steely Dan was still a rock band and no million-sellers yet?

 

No stands.

 

 

[Vito Corleone]

1 lose the stands 2 lose 30 pounds 3 get hair plugs and a dye job 4 get a face lift 5 ditch the glasses and let them grind on your cornea 6 play lady gaga to a bunch of drunk kids that wont even remember the name of your band in the morning. Oh the trauma of being a weekend rock star lol Welp gotta go play ,,, holy crap i got shorts on ,, oh nooooos fkit

Ah yes. I keep forgetting the TimKeys View Of The Music Business:

You're either a teenage rock star, or you're a 60-year old backing up a singer-songwriter for the nachos-and-beer crowd. There's nothing else in between or at least nothing else worth doing. Anybody bothering to do anything else in those intervening years is completely wasting their time.

[MusicalSchizo]

You could insert ANYTHING where you have the word "stands" (including everything in your Top Ten list) into that sentence and it is true. But why does that excuse the use of stands just there might be 10 other things that you might find to be "far more annoying"?

 

Just far more annoying TO ME than a music stand. Basically I'm saying everyone has their hangups.

 

 

There's already been one audience member who posted here who said she didn't like to see 'em. Considering that probably constitutes nearly 100% of all the non-musician forum members....I don't think they are really "phantom".

 

 

I think one person who's never seen me play out of the THOUSANDS of people I've played for in my career still counts as a phantom, because it could as easily be someone posting under an alt. I don't know that they're really NOT a musician. I assume they aren't, but I can't verify it.

 

And let's be honest here - most of you with a negative opinion on the issue here don't have the extensive experience using music stands at these sort of gigs that we who don't mind them do, so how would you guys even know what the REAL reaction to them is outside of your own personal reaction? It's like ACB was saying - you're just projecting what you think is appropriate for and relative to your situation and assuming it's appropriate for and relative to ALL situations.

 

I'm not saying using them is "right". It IS a crutch for most who use them, including me, and it CAN hamper your progress from "list to list", especially since I don't think I've ever personally seen an "A-List" band (the kind who does it for a living) use them much. But that's their ONLY job, so they have time to rehearse constantly and they play a lot more gigs than I do in a year.

 

But IN MY EXPERIENCE playing gigs that range from probably D-list to A-list (even though none of my bands have been A-list we have played quite a few of those shows), I haven't met anyone outside of other musicians who have ever even made a comment. To be logically consistent, I will say that it doesn't mean that people haven't taken issue with it - it just means that they haven't said anything to me or anyone surrounding the bands.

 

That's all I was saying...it hasn't been my experience that people care, and I find it interesting that so many who oppose the use of stands are adamant that audiences HATE it.

 

Brian V.

[Vito Corleone]

Just That's all I was saying...it hasn't been my experience that people care, and I find it interesting that so many who oppose the use of stands are adamant that audiences HATE it.

 

 

I'm not sure anyone has said that. All that has been said is don't rock and they detract from the look. The audience probably wouldn't HATE it, or at least wouldn't bother to tell you, if you had bags of garbage on stage either. But do you really think that would help sell the look of your band?