Originals Band: How can I get them to buckle down and rehearse seriously?

[New Trail]

We have about 12 originals and we're rehearsing them for an upcoming show and hopefully for recording. However at rehearsals there is a lot of goofing around during the songs......the drummer playing offtime licks, the bass player kinda jammin', not really having actual nailed down parts, singer singing goofy/dirty lyrics, etc., etc. First off, SHOULD a band rehearse for perfection? When a band plays a song should it be played as though every note, every lick, every drum beat has meaning and merit and should be there? I think it should be. How can I get guys to do that?

[BATCAT]

 

We have about 12 originals and we're rehearsing them for an upcoming show and hopefully for recording. However at rehearsals there is a lot of goofing around during the songs......the drummer playing offtime licks, the bass player kinda jammin', not really having actual nailed down parts, singer singing goofy/dirty lyrics, etc., etc. First off, SHOULD a band rehearse for perfection? When a band plays a song should it be played as though every note, every lick, every drum beat has meaning and merit and should be there? I think it should be. How can I get guys to do that?

 

 

You should play the songs as a set, as well as you can, and minimize time in between songs and other {censored}ing around. You mention goofing off while playing the song- when you've finished the set I'd say something "ok, lets do it again, like we're really doing the show!". Not in a pissed-off way, but in a "come on, let's nail this" kind of way.

 

Parts not being worked out yet- if someone is lagging behind a separate time, apart from actual "rehearsal time" should be arranged to work on their parts.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with doing something goofy during practice. In fact, I think it's healthy. But it needs to be the exception, not the rule.

[kmart]

I agree, but depending on the individuals involved, what you're attempting to do may be akin to herding cats:

 

Some people want to, and can, focus in a band practice situation. Some can't or don't want to.

The chances that ou will be able to change that behavior are slim, IME.

[jayare]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$----unless they all live with their mommies,or have working Husbands/Wives

[MattMayfield]

New Trail, when I look at a post like yours, some assumptions form in my mind. I don't want to jump to any conclusions. Will you please correct whichever ones are wrong?

 

Assumptions:

1. You and the band are young, probably under 22.

2. You are the primary or only songwriter.

3. The gigs you are playing pay US$50 or less.

4. This band has played less than 2 shows together.

[beatpoet]

Hmmm, I think you'll have a very hard time trying to get them to knuckle down. If you want to get any sort of perfection and tightness to your sound, it all starts with the drummer. If he's mucking about, the whole band will. Then again, you've got twelve songs, so they must have put some effort in. What sucks is you can't just stand there and say "right guys, we need to get tight for this gig" more than a couple of times, as they'll probably start thinking of you as a dictator. I was in a similar situation in a band once and wanted the same things (focused practises, plenty of songwriting) and ended up quitting because they said I was a dictator.

[n9ne]

How long has this band been together?

 

If you've been together for a while and the band has rehearsed these same dozen songs a thousand times over, then it's entirely possible that the rest of the band is bored with them.

 

It's one thing to keep rehearsing a song until you get it right......that's a given. But if the band already has the stuff down cold, there's not much point in continuing to hammer away on the same dozen songs. The rehearsal room can only take a song so far; it won't get any better or any tighter until you start performing it in live situations....and to continue rehearsing it will just make everyone bored with the music, which can (and does) suck the life out of it once you do take it to the stage.

 

Also....are these songs that the entire band has had a hand in writing? Or are these a dozen songs that you wrote and brought to the band as a more or less finished product, and the rest of the band is playing parts written by you? If that's the case, then it may be that your bandmates feel like hired help with little sense of personal investment or ownership in the music....which makes it easier to start slacking off and screwing around.

[rog951]

IMO: forget about recording until you get a few gigs under your belt. Usually, the pressure of a gig will force even the biggest slacker to tighten things up to avoid personal embarrassment. Once you've played the songs out a few times, hopefully the situation will iron itself out. If not, then come back and ask me again!

[Lee Knight]

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$----unless they all live with their mommies,or have working Husbands/Wives

 

 

So you don't do anything for the love of it? I would expect anyone playing in an original band to have that $ stuff locked down. So no, you're wrong, it's not money, because money will never be there for a project like this most likely. It is for the love of it.

 

If you don't love it, get the {censored} out of it.

[JailTime]

I think you're being given the wrong advice so far. If I were you, I would get those recordings done. Even if they are basement recordings. If you put it on celluloid, then you can always bitch at them to "play it like the recording." Even if you're planning to do a proper studio recording, I'd still make an attempt to record these for demo purposes. Often when we write a tune, we don't know what the parts are going to be until they are recorded. There is room for some experimentation in the studio this way, and you choose the best of the takes. Putting a recording together commits us to the parts, and does not allow for further revision - unless they are well thought out and agreed upon.

 

You can also get each mate to focus while tracking, as you can record each of them individually. It takes some work, but I don't think you'll get anywhere until you commit to the particular parts.

[Lee Knight]

 

I think you're being given the wrong advice so far. If I were you, I would get those recordings done. Even if they are basement recordings. If you put it on celluloid, then you can always bitch at them to "play it like the recording." Even if you're planning to do a proper studio recording, I'd still make an attempt to record these for demo purposes. Often when we write a tune, we don't know what the parts are going to be until they are recorded. There is room for some experimentation in the studio this way, and you choose the best of the takes. Putting a recording together commits us to the parts, and does not allow for further revision - unless they are well thought out and agreed upon. You can also get each mate to focus while tracking, as you can record each of them individually. It takes some work, but I don't think you'll get anywhere until you commit to the particular parts.

 

 

Good stuff^. The logic about holding off on recording is because after playing out, you're more equipped to nail the tunes. But... why not do both? Set about making live demos from the rehearsal studio. Simple stuff with a Zoom 2 track recorder, etc. Track one, make adjustments on your organic balance... and start tracking those bastards. Sit down later over beers and discuss what you're hearing. As a band. Do it again... and again...

 

Now, who in their right mind would {censored} around during that process? Nobody. It's being recorded. Gone are the kick drum pattern jokes and the weedileewhodilees for fun.

 

And guess what? Now you're ready to gig and record your album.

[BlueStrat]

 

We have about 12 originals and we're rehearsing them for an upcoming show and hopefully for recording. However at rehearsals there is a lot of goofing around during the songs......the drummer playing offtime licks, the bass player kinda jammin', not really having actual nailed down parts, singer singing goofy/dirty lyrics, etc., etc. First off, SHOULD a band rehearse for perfection? When a band plays a song should it be played as though every note, every lick, every drum beat has meaning and merit and should be there? I think it should be. How can I get guys to do that?

 

 

1) your band needs a leader. Not a dictator or a ruler (yet) but someone has to take charge of rehearsal. When I first started my own band, I had some guys who used to noodle and gab and lose focus. I would try to stay on top of it and say "Let's go over this part one more time" or "what are you playing in this part?' to the guy paying the least amount of attention. Lots of times guys wander all over the place because no one is leading them. One time, I actually set my guitar down, turned off my amp and grabbed my coat and headed for the door. One guy said "hey, where you going?" and I said "I drive 25 miles one way to rehearse and it's a waste of time and gas. Call me when you guys decide you want to actually get something done." And I left. The next time we rehearsed, everyone paid a lot more attention.

 

2) You will never achieve perfection. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. The difference between a good band and a great band are little things- accents, dynamic sections, a phrase or note played in just one part of the song, a unison line, interesting beginnings and endings, something that makes the song dressier, tighter and more interesting than just plodding through the changes and singing the lyrics. This is something we work on a lot.

 

3) Record your rehearsals and burn copies for everyone. Have them listen to the material during the week. Ask them if they think this is the best the song can be or could it be cooler, tighter, better? Ask them to come up with different ideas. Get them to invest themselves into the music. Until that happens, they won't care about it as much.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[BATCAT]

 

Good stuff^. The logic about holding off on recording is because after playing out, you're more equipped to nail the tunes. But... why not do both? Set about making live demos from the rehearsal studio.

 

 

I've been involved in the recording of a pretty good number of albums by a pretty good number of bands and one thing I've learned is there's no one way to handle this; it totally depends on the band, its members, and style. Some projects do best by a lot of live performance of songs before recording (often the kind of bands whose studio versions are pretty close to the live versions, while for others the recording process exists in a whole different world and the songs might now even be attemped as aband until the album is totally done.

 

But I agree- whether your goal is a tight set or a smooth recording process, (or both) demoing your own stuff is an essential part of the process. You simply hear stuff you wouldn't otherwise.

[beatpoet]

 

I think you're being given the wrong advice so far. If I were you, I would get those recordings done. Even if they are basement recordings. If you put it on celluloid, then you can always bitch at them to "play it like the recording." Even if you're planning to do a proper studio recording, I'd still make an attempt to record these for demo purposes. Often when we write a tune, we don't know what the parts are going to be until they are recorded. There is room for some experimentation in the studio this way, and you choose the best of the takes. Putting a recording together commits us to the parts, and does not allow for further revision - unless they are well thought out and agreed upon. You can also get each mate to focus while tracking, as you can record each of them individually. It takes some work, but I don't think you'll get anywhere until you commit to the particular parts.

 

 

Oh yeah, the comment I made above and me being quitting a band because they called me a dictator . . . the main thing I was saying to them was that we should record an album before playing live, and do things the correct way round. Professional bands put out a record and they gig it. Unsigned bands gig, then put out a record.

[New Trail]

 

Oh yeah, the comment I made above and me being quitting a band because they called me a dictator . . . the main thing I was saying to them was that we should record an album before playing live, and do things the correct way round. Professional bands put out a record and they gig it. Unsigned bands gig, then put out a record.

 

 

Both ways can work, but sometimes songs change after being played a lot at gigs.

[tlbonehead]

 

We have about 12 originals and we're rehearsing them for an upcoming show and hopefully for recording. However at rehearsals there is a lot of goofing around during the songs......the drummer playing offtime licks, the bass player kinda jammin', not really having actual nailed down parts, singer singing goofy/dirty lyrics, etc., etc. First off, SHOULD a band rehearse for perfection? When a band plays a song should it be played as though every note, every lick, every drum beat has meaning and merit and should be there? I think it should be. How can I get guys to do that?

 

 

ultimately, you can't if they don't want it the way you do.

[tlbonehead]

. Professional bands put out a record and they gig it. Unsigned bands gig, then put out a record.

that is your opinion, certainly not fact.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Assumptions: 1. You and the band are young, probably under 22. NO 2. You are the primary or only songwriter. YES 3. The gigs you are playing pay US$50 or less. YES 4. This band has played less than 2 shows together. YES

 

 

I usually stay out of the original band threads since I don't play in one but....

 

...I have to ask a (probably) general question to some of the original band guys out there:

 

If you're much over 30, and you're not the songwriter---what's in it for you?

 

The last time I did the original thing was when I was around 30 and, even when I wasn't the songwriter, we played all those gigs for free (or nearly free) and made a great deal of time and energy and talent commitments because we were all trying to "make it" as an original band. The hope was all the hard, free work would lead to something that would make it all worthwhile.

 

And while I can certainly understand a songwriter of ANY age who wants to get his original stuff out there, I'm having a hard time understanding why someone older would want to get involved in a project about somebody ELSEs songs. Obviously there is no longer any big brass ring for original material out there once you're over 35 or so, and if you're not getting paid decently to do it...what's the hook? Just the joy of being somewhat involved in the creative process?

 

Maybe that's why you're having a hard time getting these guys to buckle down and rehearse seriously. They don't have the same motivation and...why would they?

[tlbonehead]

?

that's exactly right. If they all aren't sharing in the creative process, what would be their reason for wanting it as much?

[Crownman]

 

that is your opinion, certainly not fact.

 

 

 

Exactly. Even huge bands do little club gigs under assumed names with new material not put out yet. And it's usually in part for the exactreason in an above post. Songs usually tighten up quite a bit and change a little after gigging them a few times. You find new things that fit and things that can make a song stumble. In the last original band I was in we gigged the songs at several gigs before doing an actual recording.

 

We did however record every single practice from start to finish. It gave everyone a chance to hear everything while not playing it. Things can sound awesome while playing the song but then on a listen back it sounds all kinds of {censored}ed up. The reverse of that is also true. Example: We recorded a gig and our drummer completely lost his place in the song for a bit but recovered without incident. People said they LOVED the change we made to the song. Upon listening to it later the screw up added a really cool feel and took the song to the next level in my mind.

 

 

 

But back on topic I guess.

 

Ask yourself, and each person in the band.... Where do you see this band going? Where do you want this band to go? If you all have the same answer you're good. If not, then there's a good chance the people screwing off at practice are the same ones that have a different answer than yours to the questions above.

[rsadasiv]

So you don't do anything for the love of it? I would expect anyone playing in an original band to have that $ stuff locked down. So no, you're wrong, it's not money, because money will never be there for a project like this most likely. It is for the love of it. If you don't love it, get the {censored} out of it.

 

[BATCAT]

 

I usually stay out of the original band threads since I don't play in one but.... ...I have to ask a (probably) general question to some of the original band guys out there: If you're much over 30, and you're not the songwriter---what's in it for you? The last time I did the original thing was when I was around 30 and, even when I wasn't the songwriter, we played all those gigs for free (or nearly free) and made a great deal of time and energy and talent commitments because we were all trying to "make it" as an original band. The hope was all the hard, free work would lead to something that would make it all worthwhile. And while I can certainly understand a songwriter of ANY age who wants to get his original stuff out there, I'm having a hard time understanding why someone older would want to get involved in a project about somebody ELSEs songs. Obviously there is no longer any big brass ring for original material out there once you're over 35 or so, and if you're not getting paid decently to do it...what's the hook? Just the joy of being somewhat involved in the creative process? Maybe that's why you're having a hard time getting these guys to buckle down and rehearse seriously. They don't have the same motivation and...why would they?

 

 

Im 34 and I play drums in several bands for which Im not a songwriter and get paid practically nothing, and I take rehearsals seriously and show up ready to get things done. So I guess I should chime in... whats my motivation?

 

For one thing, even in a band where Im not a songwriter I enjoy the process of coming up with parts and contributing to arrangements. The whole process is just really satisfying to me.

 

I also have seen the setlists of a whole lot of cover bands here, and the majority of what they do just isnt for me. The pay would have to be a lot higher for me to do it- I just really dislike playing music I dont enjoy. I guess maybe In a music fan first and musician second. If the usual cover band played a whole bunch of stuff I really liked, I might be playing in one.

 

As it is I really like the music of all the bands I play with and have fun playing it, and am good friends with a lot of their members, in some cases having known them for more than ten years. And sometimes you DO make some money and thats a nice bonus.

 

These guys joined the band, they should either act like adults or quit.

[BATCAT]

Oh yeah, another thing I meant to say... most of us over 30 in original bands arent hoping the hard work will "lead to something" or hoping to "make it". Most guys I know would laugh if you talked to them with a straight face about "making it" because after youve spent a decade or two in original bands you know the score.

 

You enjoy the process, rather that hoping for some reward, or you burn out. That simple.

[3shiftgtr]

Book gigs. Lots of them. Keep them working. You did a gig or two, then started working on other stuff. Now you have to work on what you DID....of course they are bored.

 

Go get gigs. A bunch of them. Put them to the test. They're musicians, and they want to play in front of people. Put them in front of people, encourage them and treat them right. Let them know how psyched you are to play gigs with them.

 

If they clam it up at the gig, find other folks to collaborate with.

 

Good luck.

[beatpoet]

 

that is your opinion, certainly not fact.

 

 

Obviously, and my opinion is based on playing in bands who gigged heavily and then put out an EP at the end of the cycle. The guitarists then started work on a load of new songs, so when we started gigging again, the "new" EP was redundant because there was maybe one song off it in the set because the guitarists were tired of playing the songs so much before recording them. That's certainly not the way to go about things. I see unsigned bands over the UK doing exactly the same thing. Get the EP or record/whatever out first.