Originals Band: How can I get them to buckle down and rehearse seriously?

[Vito Corleone]

For one thing, even in a band where Im not a songwriter I enjoy the process of coming up with parts and contributing to arrangements. The whole process is just really satisfying to me.

 

 

Fair enough. I'm not sure I would enjoy that process enough without SOME sort of payoff at the end---a good number of well-attended gigs and a big fan base might be enough, even if there wasn't a lot of money involved, but I'm not sure how many original bands are even doing THAT--but if you're getting enjoyment commensurate with your efforts, that's all that matters!

 

Just wonder if the OPs bandmates are feeling the same way though?

[Vito Corleone]

I also have seen the setlists of a whole lot of cover bands here, and the majority of what they do just isnt for me. The pay would have to be a lot higher for me to do it- I just really dislike playing music I dont enjoy. I guess maybe In a music fan first and musician second. If the usual cover band played a whole bunch of stuff I really liked, I might be playing in one.

 

 

Not to turn this into a covers vs. originals thread, but I agree with this attitude. If I was intent on only playing songs that pleased myself, I think I'd much rather play obscure songs I've written rather than obscure covers. For me, the whole point of playing a "cover" is because people will recognize it and respond accordingly.

[niceguy]

 

How can I get guys to do that?

 

 

You don't.

 

Your band will NEVER buckle down and work hard, because they aren't hard workers, they don't take it as seriously as you, and they don't care as much as you do.

 

Feel free to continue your epic war in getting them to focus, but this is a war you WILL lose.

 

So, what it comes down to is this: do you want to be in a loose, bull{censored} situation where you guys just get together occasionally and, ultimately, waste time and {censored} off? Or, do you actually want to attempt something more ambitious?

 

If you actually want to achieve something with music and you're willing to put in the massive amount of effort necessary, then you MUST abandon your current band. There is no other option here.

[Lee Knight]

Fair enough. I'm not sure I would enjoy that process enough without SOME sort of payoff at the end...

 

 

Everybody's got different interests. I am a songwriter. I've written and sang and played my tunes out. That was very rewarding. I am also a bassist. I've written basslines fro some great singer songwriters. I've worked on grooves with the drummer for those writers. I produce and arrange as well.

 

So for me... the "big payoff" a lot of times, is strictly the music. I get that that might not be enough for some or even most. That's cool. But I am a die hard music nut. When I was professional I always said, "I'd do this even if I wasn't getting paid." I was speaking truth. Now that I have a family and mortgage and day gig... I don't get paid anymore for music and I'm still doing for the love of... the music.

 

I am crazy that way.

[Vito Corleone]

Everybody's got different interests. I am a songwriter. I've written and sang and played my tunes out. That was very rewarding. I am also a bassist. I've written basslines fro some great singer songwriters. I've worked on grooves with the drummer for those writers. I produce and arrange as well. So for me... the "big payoff" a lot of times, is strictly the music. I get that that might not be enough for some or even most. That's cool. But I am a die hard music nut. When I was professional I always said, "I'd do this even if I wasn't getting paid." I was speaking truth. Now that I have a family and mortgage and day gig... I don't get paid anymore for music and I'm still doing for the love of... the music . I am crazy that way.

 

 

I get all that. I'm just saying I think there can be a pretty big "just for the love of the music" gap when it's a song you've written yourself as opposed to being in a band where some other guy writes all the material. I have a pretty big personal connection to the songs I've written. To the songs YOU'VE written? Not so much. Obviously that gap isn't as big for everyone as it might be for me. And, maybe, the other guys in the OPs band.

[Lee Knight]

I get all that. I'm just saying I think there can be a pretty big "just for the love of the music" gap when it's a song you've written yourself as opposed to being in a band where some other guy writes all the material. I have a pretty big personal connection to the songs I've written. To the songs YOU'VE written? Not so much. Obviously that gap isn't as big for everyone as it might be for me. And, maybe, the other guys in the OPs band.

 

 

I course there can and usually is a huge gap between the writer and the players. Unless you get players who love your stuff, or you their's. I've got to love somethig about it to do it...

[tim_7string]

 

I course there can and usually is a huge gap between the writer and the players. Unless you get players who love your stuff, or you their's. I've got to love somethig about it to do it...

 

 

Back in 2001, I was lucky enough to have a few band mates that loved to play my songs. They liked the riffs I created and were surprised that I did everything on the recordings. When I did 4-track and later DAW recordings with my friend on his songs, it was a lot of fun. The creation was the best part, but performing them live was also fun. It was especially gratifying to watch people dance and sing along to my own songs in particular.

 

The problem is that most original acts around here are either solo acoustic quirky stuff (think Tom Waits) or very heavy metal (Mastodon knock-offs) or punk-pop (Blink-182 derivatives). My stuff doesn't fit into any of those categories, so I don't bother trying to force them on people, in the originals world or in the covers world. If we had a bigger scene here, maybe I would.

 

Advice to the OP: become the leader...or don't. They need guidance. If they won't follow you, then you need new followers.

[JailTime]

 

You don't. Feel free to continue your epic war in getting them to focus, but this is a war you WILL lose. If you actually want to achieve something with music and you're willing to put in the massive amount of effort necessary, then you MUST abandon your current band. There is no other option here.

 

 

Geez, I love how when ever someone posts about problems with mates, this is always proposed as a solution - without fail. And this is from the Nice Guy! People who will play originals are a small lot. Sometimes there has to be another option - which I think probably exists in this situation.

[niceguy]

 

Geez, I love how when ever someone posts about problems with mates, this is always proposed as a solution - without fail. And this is from the Nice Guy! People who will play originals are a small lot. Sometimes there has to be another option - which I think probably exists in this situation.

 

 

Haha of course there's another option! He needs to abandon his current band and find bandmates who are on the same page as him. Meaning, find bandmates who also want to work hard and put in the effort required.

 

I play nothing but originals, and I've had years of slack-ass, goof-off, do-nothing bandmates. I finally learned to ditch anyone who isn't on the same page as me, and lo and behold, I'm selling a lot of music and I'm finally satisfied with my sound.

 

So, I'm speaking from experience: lazy bastards will ALWAYS be lazy bastards.

[New Trail]

I think the truth is that the guys just get bored. I wonder if starting a nights rehearsal with a big get-it-out-of-your-system jam would help?

 

As far as the songs go, I think all of the guys are just happy to be involved in the creative process of an originals band, some of them for the first time in their musical careers. Although I usually bring the songs in, the guys make suggestions about arrangements, beats, bass lines, harmony parts, etc., so they definitely feel like they are a part of the creative process, and that's fine with me.

[playlikedanko]

 

I think the truth is that the guys just get bored. I wonder if starting a nights rehearsal with a big get-it-out-of-your-system jam would help? As far as the songs go, I think all of the guys are just happy to be involved in the creative process of an originals band, some of them for the first time in their musical careers. Although I usually bring the songs in, the guys make suggestions about arrangements, beats, bass lines, harmony parts, etc., so they definitely feel like they are a part of the creative process, and that's fine with me.

 

 

The Ikea Effect:

 

 

"When instant cake mixes were introduced in the 1950s as part of a broader trend to simplify the life of the American housewife by minimizing manual labor, housewives were initially resistant: the mixes made cooking too easy, making their labor and skill seem undervalued. As a result, manufacturers changed the recipe to require adding an egg; while there are likely several reasons why this change led to greater subsequent adoption, infusing the task with labor appeared to be a crucial ingredient."   This suggests that by asking consumers to do a little legwork, you can increase their belief in the value of the product they have created, even if it would have been better constructed by professionals. Perhaps the best-known application of this principle is the theory

[Vito Corleone]

This is a very effective management tactic, be it in a band or anything else. I think you're on the right track with the jam session idea, but I think a simple solution would be to just designate part of the rehearsal for the creative side -- songwriting. bringing in ideas and jamming on them, etc. -- and the other part for tightening the screws on existing material. Do the creative bit first to get the band members to start taking ownership of their contributions to the group, and they'll likely bring more energy to rehearsing the material you already have.

 

 

This is very true and is something I've spoken about before. It's a management tactic I've used in my businesses and use it in the band I'm in. There are many times I personally feel like "it would be easy to just do it all myself", but the end results are better when people feel like they have a say in the process. So I always try to get other people involved in areas they want to be involved in and, hopefully, are good at it as well.

 

Sometimes they ARE good at it, and the results are better than if I did it myself. Sometimes it's a matter of just letting things be a bit less than they good be for "collective good" of the project. Sometimes you have to utilize the trick of letting people THINK they are contributing a lot, or coming up with the ideas themselves, when they in fact are not.

[New Trail]

So, essentially, putting a band together is like baking a cake!

 

..... Sometimes you have to utilize the trick of letting people THINK they are contributing a lot, or coming up with the ideas themselves, when they in fact are not.

 

I LIKE that!

[JailTime]

 

Haha of course there's another option! He needs to abandon his current band and find bandmates who are on the same page as him. Meaning, find bandmates who also want to work hard and put in the effort required. So, I'm speaking from experience: lazy bastards will ALWAYS be lazy bastards.

 

 

Well, you're speaking from your experience, and it sounds valid. It did take quite some time to find the right gang of folks to round out my group, too. But still, these people sound like they are into it. It's possible they just need some focus, or to bake a slice of the cake.

[Vito Corleone]

So, essentially, putting a band together is like baking a cake!

And like herding cats. And dealing with children. All at the same time.

[niceguy]

 

And like herding cats. And dealing with children. All at the same time.

 

 

Yeah but if you need to herd your bandmates like cats or treat them like children.... why bother with them? Why not get bandmates who actually, you know, work hard?

 

I just don't get this whole mentality a lot of musicians have, that you need to put up with whiners and lazy assholes.

 

Just honestly curious.

[Vito Corleone]

Yeah but if you need to herd your bandmates like cats or treat them like children.... why bother with them? Why not get bandmates who actually, you know, work hard? I just don't get this whole mentality a lot of musicians have, that you need to put up with whiners and lazy assholes. Just honestly curious.

 

 

I'm overstating the situation perhaps. But anyone who has ever been in a management situation knows what I'm talking about. It's not about people being whiny or lazy. It's about keeping people motivated and getting the most out of them and realizing that not everyone has the same strengths and abilities. Or the same emotional, mental and psychological levels. And whether you're running a 5-piece band, or a 100-employee retail store, the basic principles are the same.

 

Right now I'm in a fortunate situation where I'm playing with 5 other great people who are all 100% committed to the band and are willing to work hard. But not everyone's "100%" is the same. The trick is to manage things in a fashion that gets the most out of everyone rather than applying some over-arching mandate that some people thrive under but others feel stifled.

[kmart]

 

Yeah but if you need to herd your bandmates like cats or treat them like children.... why bother with them? Why not get bandmates who actually, you know, work hard? I just don't get this whole mentality a lot of musicians have, that you need to put up with whiners and lazy assholes..

 

 

I think you misunderstand: obviously NOBODY has to put up with whiners and assholes, but like it or not, being in a band is like being in a relationship, except multiply it by 3, 4, 5 or more.

Any kind of interpersonal dynamic is going to have ebb and flow, as well as times when those involved are perfectly in sync, and when they are dysfunctional. For someone who tries to manage that, it can be extremely challenging under even the best of circumstances.

 

Think about it this way: you may BELIEVE you've got people on the same page as you in terms of what the band should be about, focus on, pursue, etc., as well as the amount of time/effort/commitment it takes to make that all happen, but unless/until you actually discuss and confirm that with everybody involved, you're at best guessing. And perish the thought that someone agrees to a goal, but thinks you should address it in a different manner...

 

You want cohesive, committed, professional bandmates? I want that as well.

With that important item in common...guess what number I'm thinking of right now.

[chadd]

 

Yeah but if you need to herd your bandmates like cats or treat them like children.... why bother with them? Why not get bandmates who actually, you know, work hard? I just don't get this whole mentality a lot of musicians have, that you need to put up with whiners and lazy assholes. Just honestly curious.

 

Actually, it seems like nobody has any tolerance for differences in opinion or methodology any more and that's a shame. While everyone needs to be committed to the success of a band, you don't have to do it all the same way. In fact, it is often the different influences and styles that really makes a band unique. "Conform or die" attitudes create nothing but clones and rarely result in something productive.