Yorkville NX Vs. QSC K Series

[Bobby1Note]

Well I'm only answering this because I was asked. I don't want to get beat up cpmparing an 8" speaker to a 12" speaker. It wasn't even close. With both speakers attenuators turned all the way up and both plugged into a ZED12FX board, The SxA360 was very much louder, clearer, better highs, better lows, vocals more articulated, and overall better balance. Of course that's "my" opinion. But I basically thought it sounded pretty good for an outdated speaker.

 

 

Bob/335, thanks for that response. What about projection to the back of the room? (K-Series conical horn vs EV's 65 degree horn?

[335BoB]

Again not totally fair. The K8 has a 105 degree dispersion. I'm told that larger speakers "throw" deeper and not as wide. That is certainly the case in this comparison and I don't know what the "conical" pattern effect is. The SxA360 cuts stright through to the back of the room through a NOISY crowd as experienced this past Saturday. And I have yet to see a negative effect from the 65 degree horn. (Something I was a little concerned about except that I already had minimal experience with the SX100 and the SxA100)

[Shaster]

I know for a fact Yorkville uses quite a bit of Celestion and 18 Sound (Italy) woofers and compression drivers. as for RCF, not so much anymore... Al

 

 

Yea, I've never opened up an NX55P, YX15P or even an NX25P. Those all could be Celestion for all I know. As noted Yorkville certainly has moved away from RCF which is too bad, but change is the one constant...

 

Funny how we're comparing all these products that potentialy have the same components. Maybe the engineering makes the suit, or is that the tie makes the speaker?

[Bobby1Note]

At the end of the day, it's all about "what works for your application". There are a lot of good speakers out there lately, and as always, you have to get out there and listen to them, hopefully in an environment similar to your intended application. Some, may or may not consider product/customer support, but to me, this is a very important element in making the right decision.

 

As for "limiting early"; that depends on how you're running them, and that goes for any powered speaker. Running the tops full-range and fully cranked, even when using subs, is simply not the way to go if you need the extra top-end power. There's no point.

 

Should Yorkville bring out another 12" box? Yes, I think they should, but, I'd like to see it in the Elite series, as a powered 12" companion to the EF500pb(15") (E12 active?)

[Al Poulin]

 

Yea, I've never opened up an NX55P, YX15P or even an NX25P. Those all could be Celestion for all I know. As noted Yorkville certainly has moved away from RCF which is too bad, but change is the one constant...

 

 

NX55P = Celestion woofer and horn.

 

YX15P = Alto woofer and same Celestion horn as NX55P

 

NX25 = ? woofer and 18 sound horn

 

Al

[agedhorse]

I don't get you sometimes Andy. On the one hand, you talk about "clever engineers" at QSC who "may have" implemented some clever scheme allowing them to run a 500wRMS amp into a 75w HF driver,,,, and on the other hand, you're knocking Yorkville because they're powering a sub at 2xRMS and calling it Program Power ?????

 

 

Try harder!

 

The problem I have with Yorkville's 1500 watt powered speaker is that the amp does not and can not deliver 1500 watts (other than using the peak value of the waveform voltage in calculating peak power) RMS, continuous or otherwise. It's a 750 watt RMS amp, not a 1500 watt amp. I also think that a 750 watt RMS amp is plenty big enough and a perfect match fo that cabinet with processing.

 

QSC's 1000 watt amp is rated at 1000 watts RMS, 500 watts RMS per channel. The processing allows the amp to be driven as hard as the speakers can handle within the limits ofthe processing but certainly for shorter terms and with the appropriate HPF the low end amp is certainly delivering 500 watts RMS (1000 watts program if you want to use Yorkville's terminology) at the limit point. The duration (duty cycle) is dependant on the program material and depth of limiting.

 

The high end amp, while capable of delivering 500 watts is IIRC driving a load that's about 2x the load at rated power so the HF is capable of receiving ~300 watts RMS which is really way too much on a continuous basis BUT for short term could reach the voltage limit point of the amp and as the time slice (and duty cycle) lengthens the limiter threshold shifts downward. This is due to mechanical and thermal limiting algorithems. The driver is really ~50 watts RMS continuous but for short durations is good for probably 300 watts RMS. I'm sure Yorkville does much the same thing.

 

Regarding their sub, it's receiving the entire 1000 watts RMS which would be a Yorkville 2000 watts "program".

 

So, I'm trying to show an apples to apples comparison here, you are duping yourself because you are focused on apples versus orages comprison.

 

Yourville makes great product. They do much the same processing as all other quality manufacturers. It's the marketing that leads to these confusions in the marketplace and your comments highlight why it bothers me.

[Al Poulin]

 

Regarding their sub, it's receiving the entire 1000 watts RMS which would be a Yorkville 2000 watts "program".

 

 

So... According to this statement, all things being equal,

 

It would take a 2000 watt Yorkville sub to match QSC's 1000 watt RMS Ksub?

 

 

So how come the 720 watt (or 360 WATT RMS) LS/NX720P outperforms it?

 

Is it just because the KSub sucks? 360 watts vs. 1000 would seem to mean the KSub would seriously kick the Yorkie's ass... which is not the case at all.

 

 

This also would mean my 200 watt YX15P is only 100 watts? I don't know Andy...

 

Al

[Shaster]

So... According to this statement, all things being equal, It would take a 2000 watt Yorkville sub to match QSC's 1000 watt RMS Ksub? So how come the 720 watt (or 360 WATT RMS ) LS/NX720P outperforms it? Is it just because the KSub sucks? 360 watts vs. 1000 would seem to mean the KSub would seriously kick the Yorkie's ass... which is not the case at all. This also would mean my 200 watt YX15P is only 100 watts? I Al

 

 

Not sure I should be wading in here, excuse me if I shouldn't be.

 

Folks keep talking about efficiency/sensitivity and this is where it comes to play. If that 100 RMS watt cabinet's speaker is highly efficient, then the speaker will be louder than it's watts would suggest.

 

Frankly, even comparing Yorkville to Yorkville, that YX15 can almost keep up with their NX55P's so sensitivity (and wasted power) come into play there as well - IMHO.

 

And remember doubling the power is only supposed to give a technical boost by 3dB. Factor in different sensitivity and different limiting and my NX25P can sound louder than my (former) NX55P - it ain't pretty, but it's louder (to my bandmate's ears anyway).

 

The really confusing part is that Yorkville rates their power amps with continupous average power, but rates their powered speakers with program power. they do make it very clear, but I'll concede that some noobs or not so noobs could get misdirected by all of the different ratings.

 

Once again IMHO, once Yorkville started to go down the program watts route it was hard to quit. Imagine rating an unpowered speaker at 250 watts program, and then rating their powered version at 125 RMS - now compound that with the fact that they seemingly double the power to some of their powered speakers, but step it way down with limiting - it can make your head spin!!!

 

I'm fine with it now (after much head scratching), but I still need to read between the lines to make sure I know what is what. At least they're not boring!

[Bobby1Note]

No point me commenting on the so-called 1500w sub. It's a "red herring". I didn't bring it up, and I'm not going there. In fact, I always figured it was an 800w sub, and hence the name LS-800p. Go figure.

 

So, on the other hand, we have the K-Series with a pair of 500w RMS amps, choked down to Lord-knows-what,,, but that's "cool", because it's RMS watts at the amp....... Riiiiight. Four times the "power" of the NX55p, and 4dB louder,,,,,riiiiiiight.

[dcastar]

 

So... According to this statement, all things being equal, It would take a 2000 watt Yorkville sub to match QSC's 1000 watt RMS Ksub? So how come the 720 watt (or 360 WATT RMS ) LS/NX720P outperforms it? Is it just because the KSub sucks? 360 watts vs. 1000 would seem to mean the KSub would seriously kick the Yorkie's ass... which is not the case at all. This also would mean my 200 watt YX15P is only 100 watts? I don't know Andy... Al

 

 

*sigh* and *facepalm* All at the same time. I might be a dick for pointing out the proverbial 800lb gorilla in the room here, but... I seriously don't understand how you can write reviews for powered speakers and still take yourself seriously when you don't understand basic concepts of amplifier power and speaker efficiency ratings.

 

 

edit: not to mention the fact that you're ignoring the ksub is a bandpass box, and the nx720 is front-loaded.

[lifeloverwg]

 

*sigh* and *facepalm* All at the same time. I might be a dick for pointing out the proverbial 800lb gorilla in the room here, but... I seriously don't understand how you can write reviews for powered speakers and still take yourself seriously when you don't understand basic concepts of amplifier power and speaker efficiency ratings. edit: not to mention the fact that you're ignoring the ksub is a bandpass box, and the nx720 is front-loaded.

 

 

I thought the whole reason for a bandpass box was to increase efficiency at a given frequency.... But I've been wrong before.

 

Winston

[philw44]

I thought the whole reason for a bandpass box was to increase efficiency at a given frequency.... But I've been wrong before. Winston

 

 

Lets you state the Max SPL higher = more sales! That's the only purpose for band pass subs IMO..

 

 

Again not totally fair. The K8 has a 105 degree dispersion. I'm told that larger speakers "throw" deeper and not as wide. That is certainly the case in this comparison and I don't know what the "conical" pattern effect is.

 

 

That QSC conical horn is awful. Walk about five metres away and the top end becomes phantom. Put any sort of reasonable SPL into that speaker and it sounds like it's being choked. Not a fan at all!

[Al Poulin]

*sigh* and *facepalm* All at the same time. I might be a dick for pointing out the proverbial 800lb gorilla in the room here, but... I seriously don't understand how you can write reviews for powered speakers and still take yourself seriously when you don't understand basic concepts of amplifier power and speaker efficiency ratings. edit: not to mention the fact that you're ignoring the ksub is a bandpass box, and the nx720 is front-loaded.

 

I assure you I very well understand amplifier and speaker efficiency ratings, and I thank you for your kind words. I am also well aware of different box designs and how these affect a cabinet's output and frequency response. Take my 720P/KSub post as you will, it was just intended to make people think and maybe to show that the watts thing is only part of the equation. There was some sarcasm in my post which you may have misinterpreted also.

 

I write speaker reviews because I enjoy it. I do not write them for pro audio magazines - I write them to share with friends so as to give my personal opinion of a particular powered speaker and if they represent a good choice for the $$$ and for which application they would best be used for. I am not a product designer or engineer and have never claimed to be. I have been doing DJ work and some live sound for 21 years now and do have at least a basic understanding of how speakers and amps work, I am sorry you feel otherwise. You can always choose not to read my reviews if you wish.

 

I do take myself seriously as a professional DJ and consider myself to be quite knowledgeable on most things audio. There are many, many with more experience here than myself but I have never claimed to being close to knowing or understanding it all - why I am also here to learn.

 

Al

[witesol]

That QSC conical horn is awful. Walk about five metres away and the top end becomes phantom. Put any sort of reasonable SPL into that speaker and it sounds like it's being choked. Not a fan at all!

really? Mine, and the others i've heard must be the exception I guess

[Rumorsband]

Well, I have made a decision folks...and thanks all for you're help. My original post was how would replacing my NX55's with K10's compare. I have decided to have my cake and eat it to. I've always been a JBL guy, so I am ordering 2 612M's and 1 618s-xlf sub. My York system is for sale. Almost everyone here has said the PRX would be a step up... and QSC would be a lateral move. I'm getting some great pricing on the JBL's so I'm pulling the trigger so to speak. I'll let everyone know how I make out.

[Bobby1Note]

Well, I have made a decision folks...and thanks all for you're help. My original post was how would replacing my NX55's with K10's compare. I have decided to have my cake and eat it to. I've always been a JBL guy, so I am ordering 2 612M's and 1 618s-xlf sub. My York system is for sale. Almost everyone here has said the PRX would be a step up... and QSC would be a lateral move. I'm getting some great pricing on the JBL's so I'm pulling the trigger so to speak. I'll let everyone know how I make out.

Well Rumosrband, Looks like you've chosen a very nice combination of components, at an amazing price-level. They're 40% more expensive up here. I certainly hope your new system meets your needs and expectations. I've read only good things about the 618s-XLF sub.

[dcastar]

Well, I have made a decision folks...and thanks all for you're help. My original post was how would replacing my NX55's with K10's compare. I have decided to have my cake and eat it to. I've always been a JBL guy, so I am ordering 2 612M's and 1 618s-xlf sub. My York system is for sale. Almost everyone here has said the PRX would be a step up... and QSC would be a lateral move. I'm getting some great pricing on the JBL's so I'm pulling the trigger so to speak. I'll let everyone know how I make out.

 

 

Good combo. Thumbs up.

[jwlussow]

 

Well, I have made a decision folks...and thanks all for you're help. My original post was how would replacing my NX55's with K10's compare. I have decided to have my cake and eat it to. I've always been a JBL guy, so I am ordering 2 612M's and 1 618s-xlf sub. My York system is for sale. Almost everyone here has said the PRX would be a step up... and QSC would be a lateral move. I'm getting some great pricing on the JBL's so I'm pulling the trigger so to speak. I'll let everyone know how I make out.

 

 

Great choices. I'm pretty sure you will be VERY happy with the sound. Congrats and make sure to let us know what you think.

[agedhorse]

That QSC conical horn is awful. Walk about five metres away and the top end becomes phantom. Put any sort of reasonable SPL into that speaker and it sounds like it's being choked. Not a fan at all!

 

 

Not my experience. Of course comparing similar patterns of horns. I think the box sounds pretty darn good for the price point.

[agedhorse]

So... According to this statement, all things being equal, It would take a 2000 watt Yorkville sub to match QSC's 1000 watt RMS Ksub? So how come the 720 watt (or 360 WATT RMS ) LS/NX720P outperforms it? Is it just because the KSub sucks? 360 watts vs. 1000 would seem to mean the KSub would seriously kick the Yorkie's ass... which is not the case at all. This also would mean my 200 watt YX15P is only 100 watts? I don't know Andy... Al

I do know.

You need to understand that comparing powered speakers based on power alone does not reflect the raw box sensitivity very well. That's going to be a function of the driver design, box size, type of cabinet, and design bandwidth... just like any other speaker.

If your YXP is rated as a 200 watt program power system and if it's rated like their other powered speaker products, then yes,it's driven by a 100 watt RMS amp.

Really good processing algoritherms can buy another 3dB of average SPL pretty transparently. That's a significant contribution.

[agedhorse]

No point me commenting on the so-called 1500w sub. It's a "red herring". I didn't bring it up, and I'm not going there. In fact, I always figured it was an 800w sub, and hence the name LS-800p. Go figure. So, on the other hand, we have the K-Series with a pair of 500w RMS amps, choked down to Lord-knows-what,,, but that's "cool", because it's RMS watts at the amp....... Riiiiight. Four times the "power" of the NX55p, and 4dB louder,,,,,riiiiiiight.

 

 

I used the LS-800 because it's been discussed in depth here before, but the same argument applies to every one of their powered speaker products that are rated in the same way.

 

I never said that the QSC amps were choked down to Lord knows what so don't put words in my mouth. I did say that QSC does use DSP processing to improve the performance and reliability, and that the HF section is limited to protect the driver but frankly, there's enough HF available that the box will run out of LF steam before getting very heavily into the HF limiting. I do believe the limiters do track though, so that LF limiting will engage proportional limiters on the HF section to maintain LF to HF tracking.

 

ALL quality powered speaker manufacturers do similar things. Processing (crossover, thermal limiting, mechanical limiting, TOC, are part of what makes a powered speaker perform better for most folks. Look under the hood of the better Yorkville products sometime.

 

Regarding your comparison between the NX and the K's, that's 2dB different raw speaker sensitivity which is right in the ballpark. Even that could be due to measurement technique and in practice one signal processing method may be better enough to make or break the comparison.

[agedhorse]

Great choices. I'm pretty sure you will be VERY happy with the sound. Congrats and make sure to let us know what you think.

 

 

I agree.

[Rumorsband]

This is probably a no brainer for most. I rarely ever push the Yorkville system anyway, but on the occassions I have cranked them, the meters on my mixer will through the green into the yellows and pretty dsarn close to the red or the absolute max. The speakers are not even close to clipping etc. What am I seeing there? Is it the mixers limitations? I am using a Yamaha mixer - I can get the model if you need it. I recall someone talking about their mixer not being able to handle the hot signal?

[philw44]

No sir, that's not the only purpose. A bandpass sub, while I am not a big fan of, allows "better" (as in higher SPL) bottom end in general compared with a front loaded or horn loaded sub of the same physical volume. There are tradeoffs of course, even response and LF extension being the primary ones.

 

 

Indeed, but in my experience i have never found that to be a worthwhile trade off. I find uneven bass response extremely distracting.

[agedhorse]

This is probably a no brainer for most. I rarely ever push the Yorkville system anyway, but on the occassions I have cranked them, the meters on my mixer will through the green into the yellows and pretty dsarn close to the red or the absolute max. The speakers are not even close to clipping etc. What am I seeing there? Is it the mixers limitations? I am using a Yamaha mixer - I can get the model if you need it. I recall someone talking about their mixer not being able to handle the hot signal?

 

 

What is the meter scale on your mixer? Look it up in the manual.

 

Where are you operating the input level controls on your powered speakers?