How loud is loud enough?

[Voltan]

things in my world are a bit different.

i get numerous requests from my old haunts to come and play my bowls and gongs. it isnt something im completely comfortable with so i figured i needed to face it. the reasons not to do it are many, the noise floor is just too high in the first place, the beauty of large gongs is a paradox, they are capable of generating sound pressure levels well above human comfort ranges yet their forte is found in the gentlest touches which can conjure spontaneous pitch changes or moving harmonics within changing chords... but if youre talking, or playing with your phone, or thinking about scoring with whomever just graced the stool beside you, you wont hear it, and you probably wont get it... ( yeah, her either, lol!) i have a couple aces, however. first, what i do isnt commonplace, its mysterious and otherworldly, the movements dont always seem to go with the sounds and the sounds are anything BUT what you expect. i purposefully lead into what everyone expects... i take the largest mallet, stand with a flourish and stop the swing just before contact. at this exact moment there is complete silence in anticipation of the only thing most people know about gongs is about to... be whispered...what??? i use this moment of silence as a shock, and its usually fairly effective. often this leads to a teachable moment. now i have silence and their attention and its up to me and the passion for my instrument to keep both to my advantage.

[Bob Dey]

Tried playing in a band last year and I couldn't get the other guitar player to keep the volume down. Part of the reason was he had a Fender tube amp while I was using my Ampeg tube amp. He also had so many pedals that didn't work well together as far as gain structure. But for some reason the Fender amp's volume pot was very sensitive. At 1.5 it was quiet, at 2 it was loud. ?

 

The last band I was in was in 1989. The other guitarist had a marshall with a 4X12 cab while I had a sold state combo amp with one 12. He was loud and I had to mic my amp just to be heard!

[pogo97]

I feel your pain. My band is very controlled, even quiet! But where I jam is a free-for-all. Sometimes, the volume is okay and sometimes (when the big Orange amp shows up) I can't hear myself without going 'way out into overdrive territory. I prefer clean.

 

But a couple of weeks ago, I traded my old amp and some money for a Deluxe Reverb. Hah!! No more trouble with hearing. That's during the jam: hearing afterward and the next day, not so great.

[ski219]

My old Fender Hot Rod Deluxe was like that It went from low volume to loud with no in between. You have to add an attenuator. I used a volume pedal. I play in a regularly gigging band and use a small 15 watt Fender Blues Jr. and I keep the stage volume very low and mic the amp. This helps us all hear better and males for a better mix as well. Thinking about ditching the amp altogether and using an amp modeler into the PA.

 

We don't measure decibel levels, but try to not be super loud. I always ask the manager or bartenders if the volume is good.

[Bob Dey]

Deluxe reverb is what the other guitar player was using IIRK.

[Bob Dey]

Yes, I was thinking an attenuator too. I had one long ago - they cost a lot more now days. I'd like a blues Jr or Hod rod deluxe even though I don't need either. I've been using a sansamp flyrig 5 as an amp simulator. Has a lot of stuff for such a small unit - and sounds good too.

[DeepEnd]

Must be a thing with Fender amps. I have an FM65R and it does the same "deafening at 3" thing. I made my own attenuator that goes in the effects loop, between the ''Pre Out'' and ''Power In'' jacks. It has one jack controlled by a 10K pot and a ''bypass'' jack with a direct signal. I think I built it for under $15. You can find the plans here: http://person2person.faithweb.com/Project.html. It should work with a Hot Rod Deluxe since it has an effects loop but the Blues Jr. doesn't.

[pogo97]

My previous amp, a Traynor YGM3, was sweet-voiced and a little quiet up to about 7, then started screaming. May have been the speaker. The Fender Deluxe Reverb seems more loud-oriented but it's sweet all the way up. I haven't dimed it yet -- about 7 on the amp and 7 on a tele and I could hear myself *very* well over the drums and bass and howling strings galore. And still pretty clean. Surprising in a 22-watt amp.

[onelife]

Quite often I'll use a 12 Watt Princeton Reverb or a 20 Watt Mesa Boogie Subway Blues (that I run at half-power).

 

I mic it through the PA and the monitors so each person gets to decide how much (or how little) of the guitar they wan't to hear. Because the amplifier itself is not loud, the actual volume is controlled and managed through the PA - so everyone goes home happy.

[RoadRanger]

You can get a mod kit on fleaBay that will fix the HotRod's touchy controls.

[pogo97]

Played a solo gig at our local bakery/cafe yesterday. Took my digital piano and a bench. Didn't bother with a PA. One of the best solo gigs I've done -- I have a strong enough voice to fill the room and it was liberating to not bother about a mic and all that and to just sing into the air.

 

Played another gig last night with the Old Pal Minnow Bucket Band. We pride ourselves on being the quietest band in eastern Ontario. The venue had a sound guy and about a billion watts of power if we'd wanted. We played at very moderate levels and that, too, was a good gig.

[onelife]

I was hired to provide a PA for a classical duo - guitar and violin. I setup a system that was appropriate for the room that I had worked previously. When the talent showed up they suggested doing the show without any reinforcement.

 

It worked, they sounded fine in the room acoustically.

 

As I listened to the show I was thinking how much better it was that they were mixing (or rather blending) themselves as they were performing the music instead of me doing it electronically from the back of the room.

 

During the intermission a musician freind of mine commented that a good soundman knows when to stay out of a situation where they are not needed.

[Notes_Norton]

I heard a salsa band a couple of weeks ago. We went there to talk to the owner and check it out (success: we're booked in July). They hired the Salsa band and a Mexican band for Cinco De Mayo.

 

Anyway the singer of the salsa band was in the mud zone. We told him about it, and he pointed us to the sound man. We suggested to the sound man that he put a bit more treble on the lead singer's mic, and the vocals came alive.

 

Not all sound people know what they are doing.

 

Anyway the band was great, and a friend of ours played trumpet in the band. He's not Hispanic but he can hit those very high notes required.

 

They were loud, I had my ear plugs in.

 

Notes

[daddymack]

as does a good musician...

[daddymack]

I do sound for my bands, but it is hard to adjust once things start and I'm onstage...at our Wednesday jam gig, I had set-up the PA, but, as a courtesy, I intentionally set the mains volume low in the room because the playoff game was still on...some 'helpful' person started tweaking the board while I was on stage, singing... FEEDBACK ...then mud...DOH!!

Once the song ended, I went to fix the mix...the 'helpful' person had cranked the mains, and in response to the feedback, had cut all the highs on the graphic and rolled off the highs on the individual mic channels...but had not turned the mains down...

I 'thanked' him and politely suggested that he not touch the mixing board...EVER AGAIN!

[Notes_Norton]

I understand the problems a sound person has, as I have those same problems. But this guy who ran the board for the salsa band had no clue. The graphic EQ was in the "smiley face" and the tone controls were mostly flat. A little tweaking of the treble brought the singer out of the mud and caused no problems.

 

It's not easy running the board, and it takes ears and know-how. But like everything else, some are better than others at doing most things. A good sound guy could have helped that group a lot.