Members HeartfeltDawn Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 As for your previous comment regarding RATM and radiohead, RATM benefitted a great deal from having that stripped down FX setup. You could recognize a Tom Morello riff a mile away... how many guitarists can you say that about? He had a distinct sound because he limited the FX he was using and was just extremely creative with them. As for radiohead, jonny greenwood has been using a teleplus into the same two amps for virtually his entire career, and is so strongly associated with the roland tape delay that people state that he uses it in their craigslist ads. Of course they also use other instruments and pedals, but each one of their records has a very distinctive sound (except hail to the thief, their worst record).I haven't bought an M9 yet Yes you can recognise a Tom Morello riff. The point I was making is that you can still recognise it 17 years after Killing In The Name Of was released because his sound has never evolved. Even with Audioslave he does the scratching thang and it's really boring. Even when RATM were really big, Morello's sound wasn't that creative really. A bit of pitchshifting, a bit of waggle with the kill switch... it was more technique than anything else. You're using the {censored} people put in Craigslist ads to make your point? Big fail. Greenwood is associated with the Space Echo but it's one of those stupid things people get associated with, like the idea that Johnny Marr played Rickenbackers most of the time with the Smiths. People seize on something, broadcast it, and it becomes some kind of irrevocable truth. What's the 'distinctive sound' in Pablo Honey, OK Computer, and Kid A then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marchofflames Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 i think they would pretty much lol @ line 6 and everything they've ever done and use stuff that didn't just get people by that had no talent. these things are so hilariously bad, i really wish people would stop talking about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ben_allison Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 I totally agree, the only thing that confuses me is that it's happening on this forum.. it's not something I could have predicted. This forum used to thrive on expensive cable kits, expensive bootique pedals, pedal board arrangement, 'look at my 3 delay pedals' 'digital is {censored}' 'multi effects are crap' 'zachman'd, made in usa, 'I hate menus' True bypass.... etc etc... and all that nonsense. This really does seem like a big turnaround for the forum, which is probably a good thing.... but I can still see all the 'well I liked it but in the end it just didn't cut it' and 'I really missed my ......' threads in 6 months time. It will be interesting anyway..... The thing is a lot of that is myth or people trying to be cool on the Internet. But I get it: HCFX is kinda like the cesspool out of which that propaganda arises (like TGP, just with smaller budgets and less dad-blooze). Maybe people are starting to use their ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GuyaGuy Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 i think they would pretty much lol @ line 6 and everything they've ever done and use stuff that didn't just get people by that had no talent. these things are so hilariously bad, i really wish people would stop talking about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hosebeast Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 guys, srsly, look how straight up {censored}ing lame and ridiculous this is: http://christopherave.wordpress.com/2009/06/10/iphone-apps-for-music-exploding/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hosebeast Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 worst company that has anything to do with music in the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members houseofglass21 Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 Honestly the M13 has done the exact opposite of what the OP said for me. It has made things much more cohesive for me. I mainly stick to one scene and I have a couple others which are copies of the same scene with maybe one or two FX subbed in for another depending on what a particular song calls for. Sure there's tons of fx and options you never know when you might want to use them on a recording or something, but it doesn't mean you have to just because they're there. I like the fact that all the footswitches are relatively close together. There's a lot less tap dancing to do. I just went through and found the stuff that is most useful to me and my band. Basically the stuff I was using already (Delay, Reverb, Distortion, Whammy, Wah). And all those things are IMO as good as any of the actual pedals I had that they replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NetStar Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 So every other company has 100% perfect product line ups? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ben_allison Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 i think they would pretty much lol @ line 6 and everything they've ever done and use stuff that didn't just get people by that had no talent. these things are so hilariously bad, i really wish people would stop talking about them. Why, because you think they would? Unsubstantiated arguments are worthless. The simple fact is, they used what was available. From popular commercial pieces to custom gear. You get what works, suits your needs/vision, and charge ahead. All the while, doing your best to ignore snobby, "I have a cause and I'm on a mission, man," naysayers. You strike me as the perfect candidate for a blind listening test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members joeyowen Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 guys, srsly, look how straight up {censored}ing lame and ridiculous I am fix'd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marchofflames Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 guys, srsly, look how straight up {censored}ing lame and ridiculous this is:http://christopherave.wordpress.com/2009/06/10/iphone-apps-for-music-exploding/ why the hell do you care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HeartfeltDawn Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 I totally agree, the only thing that confuses me is that it's happening on this forum.. it's not something I could have predicted. This forum used to thrive on expensive cable kits, expensive bootique pedals, pedal board arrangement, 'look at my 3 delay pedals' 'digital is {censored}' 'multi effects are crap' 'zachman'd, made in usa, 'I hate menus' True bypass.... etc etc... and all that nonsense. This really does seem like a big turnaround for the forum, which is probably a good thing.... but I can still see all the 'well I liked it but in the end it just didn't cut it' and 'I really missed my ......' threads in 6 months time. It will be interesting anyway..... Partly it's the musical climate right now. Lots of bands are out there using digital equipment and some are even making good records using it. It's helped prick the bubble of the 'analog is best' mentality. It always amused me when MBV threads were up every week and someone would ask 'What should I get to sound like Kevin Shields?' and you'd get all manner of expensive pedal mentioned and the cheap secondhand rack units that Shields did use were mentioned in hushed terms. The 80s revival means digital sounds are in. The other thing is the general pricking of the boutique bubble. Pedal prices are down on Ebay. The top level OD prices (Cornish and D*A*M) are down by about 20% I'd estimate. Even at TGP, gear is getting cheaper. Something like the M13 offers a lot of sounds for not a stupid amount of cash, you don't have to worry about buying another power unit to power them all, etc etc. It's a perfect live solution where you're not going to need top-notch sounds, just something good enough to get by with. Line 6's algorithms aren't bad at all. They're certainly not really sterile like a lot of rack units were when digital first came to prominence. The success of the M-series pedals I think will hurt a lot of boutique pedal makers. Economy is still down, people are going to be scrabbling for money, a double dip recession could really hammer people, 2010 will see the public sector budgets hit hard and jobs will be cut... money is going to be tight. A product like the M13 could really clean up, further hitting the boutique market in general. If you look at Ebay here in the UK now, there's been a {censored}ing shedload of US-made boutique amps online recently, stuff like Divided by 13, Two Rock, and many others. People are getting tight for cash. I have no problem using analog, digital, or steam powered gear. When people like Bernard Butler and Wilco say they've used Line 6 gear on their records, that's way good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members melx Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 The thing is a lot of that is myth or people trying to be cool on the Internet. But I get it: HCFX is kinda like the cesspool out of which that propaganda arises (like TGP, just with smaller budgets and less dad-blooze). Maybe people are starting to use their ears. maybe they are. I'm still shocked to hear Crxsh say things like:"It's the same w/ the M9. For $400 or whatever, I can pull off sounds similar to a pedalboard 5x it's cost..... and then some." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HeartfeltDawn Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 worst company that has anything to do with music in the world or: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crxsh Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 maybe they are. I'm still shocked to hear Crxsh say things like: "It's the same w/ the M9. For $400 or whatever, I can pull off sounds similar to a pedalboard 5x it's cost..... and then some." apostrophe FAIL. And yeah, the funny thing here is that I used to be as dead set against digital modelers as the rest of you bastards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Naterel Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 I have no problem using analog, digital, or steam powered gear. Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ben_allison Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 apostrophe FAIL. And yeah, the funny thing here is that I used to be as dead set against digital modelers as the rest of you bastards. Well when you've owned every pedal under the sun twice, you need to find fresh pastures to graze in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members melx Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 Partly it's the musical climate right now. Lots of bands are out there using digital equipment and some are even making good records using it. It's helped prick the bubble of the 'analog is best' mentality. It always amused me when MBV threads were up every week and someone would ask 'What should I get to sound like Kevin Shields?' and you'd get all manner of expensive pedal mentioned and the cheap secondhand rack units that Shields did use were mentioned in hushed terms. The 80s revival means digital sounds are in. The other thing is the general pricking of the boutique bubble. Pedal prices are down on Ebay. The top level OD prices (Cornish and D*A*M) are down by about 20% I'd estimate. Even at TGP, gear is getting cheaper. Something like the M13 offers a lot of sounds for not a stupid amount of cash, you don't have to worry about buying another power unit to power them all, etc etc. It's a perfect live solution where you're not going to need top-notch sounds, just something good enough to get by with. Line 6's algorithms aren't bad at all. They're certainly not really sterile like a lot of rack units were when digital first came to prominence. The success of the M-series pedals I think will hurt a lot of boutique pedal makers. Economy is still down, people are going to be scrabbling for money, a double dip recession could really hammer people, 2010 will see the public sector budgets hit hard and jobs will be cut... money is going to be tight. A product like the M13 could really clean up, further hitting the boutique market in general. If you look at Ebay here in the UK now, there's been a {censored}ing shedload of US-made boutique amps online recently, stuff like Divided by 13, Two Rock, and many others. People are getting tight for cash. I have no problem using analog, digital, or steam powered gear. When people like Bernard Butler and Wilco say they've used Line 6 gear on their records, that's way good enough for me. yes, it's food for thought indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crxsh Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 I'll be honest: I could survive on just the M9. And I'm pretty sure that, for the most part, BTBAM could as well. He's already said that he can do most of what his 20+ dual-board setup did with just the M9. And that, my friends, is saying something. I love my Reverberator and my Superdelay and my Timmy and all that, but if it came down to it -- I could get by on just this one thing too. It takes a lot to say that, because I love my stomp board... but the M9 is a great resource and with a bit more time than it'd take to dial in anything else, you can get this thing sounding pretty darn magical. Does the OD sound like my Timmy? Not really. Close though.Does the fuzz sound like my Ernie? Not really. Close-ish though. Does the delay sound like my Superdelay? No. But it's still pretty darn good. But I'm fortunate. I can plant the M9 alongside my most beloved stomps and use both. For the $320 I paid for it though, I'm sure that I couldn't assemble a stomp board that would be anywhere even close to something that would rival the M9.All that said, the M9 is what most multi-fx rigs are: a monster group of things that sound pretty good for a great price, comparatively. Will it sound as good as a $2000 stomp board? It's subjective, of course, but probably not. I still like it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GuyaGuy Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 worst company that has anything to do with music in the world hm. well, yes.back to the M9/M13, which is what we were discussing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IRG Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 i think they would pretty much lol @ line 6 and everything they've ever done and use stuff that didn't just get people by that had no talent. these things are so hilariously bad, i really wish people would stop talking about them. Sorry but you're lost here. You know why people are talking about the M9/13? Because they sound good, work great, offer a lot of flexibility, and don't cost a ton considering what they offer. Would Jimi or Randy play one of these units if they had been available when they were alive? Neither of us know, but my guess is yes. When Mike Matthews of EHX offered Jimi his new Big Muff, Jimi jumped at the opportunity to try something new and different (new at that time). Imagine if he was given a M9, and told he could have his fuzz face, muff, eq settings, some chorus or flange, delay, all the reverb he would want, and some crazy filter settings to give his solos an extra kick, while making some cool loops while playing live, and that through a good amp, it would sound great, do you really {censored}in believe an artist like that would say no thanks, this is only for people with no talent? GIVE ME A {censored}IN BREAK. Sorry you don't like these units or Line6, which seems to have rubbed you the wrong way, they aren't the greatest thing since sliced bread, but they are, really quite good, and until you've given them a proper chance, your comments make you look foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 These are great sounding units, and are a very good deal of you are in a cover band or just like to jam. For a band that is writing original material though, they have a real inherent problem. Too much choice. Because you can bring up a whole new pedal board for every song, you end up losing any chance you had at having a distinctive sound. Sure it might not be as much fun to use only one delay pedal on every song, but if helps give you a cohesive sound. The best records have a distinct sonic character that carry on throughout throughout the whole album. You don;t need a million sounds people! (except cover bands). Flame away. No flames, but an alternative POV if I may... I am a recording engineer, and I own a studio where I produce, record, and occasionally play on recordings. I see the occasional cover band, but more often, it's original material that we're working on in here. Because of that, and because of my forum activities, I get to see a fair amont of different rigs and approaches. Honestly, I don't see a lot of difference in the approaches people take with multiple pedals vs multi-effects. Sure, there's some, and a few are rather big exceptions to that, but for the most part, I find that players tend to find a few favorite sounds and stick to those more often than not - whether those sounds are a result of using pedals, rack gear or floor / tabletop multi-effects. In other words, I think a lot of multi-effects players tend to find "their sound" in the units after spending time auditioning the various options and adjusting / tweaking their setups, just as pedal players do. Sonic merits and preferences issues aside, the main difference in terms of that process is that the multi-effects players have the option of storing and recalling their favorites fairly easily, which does allow them to "collect" more favorites, but due to the instant recall, it's even easier for them in some respects to continue to migrate back to their favorites more often than not. With pedals, it tends to be more all or nothing - either you set and forget, or you're fairly often adjusting. Because of that, I personally disagree with the idea that "because you can bring up a whole new pedal board for every song, you end up losing any chance you had at having a distinctive sound". Not everyone is using their multi-effects unit that way, and I think the distinctiveness more often originates in the player's personal tastes and preferences, and the way they utilize their gear.Look, the gear's important - you'll have a heck of a tough time finding someone who is a bigger gear lover than me... but let's face it - the gear is not as important as the ideas are; as the songs are, or the arrangements or the notes the various band members decide to play or not play, and how that all interacts and feels and makes the listener feel... gear is very important, but it's not the only thing that gives a band or a player a musical identity. Some players are known for their quest for different sounds, and yet they still manage to sound like themselves, regardless of what sort of gear they're running through. George Harrison being but one classic example. While the tools and technology were very limited and somewhat primitive by today's standards, he still managed to always sound like GH whether he's being flanged, running through a Leslie, playing slide, with or without OD and fuzz, etc. It was his touch and his phrasing and his musicality that made him identifiable and distinctive even more so than the different sounds or effects. Now as far as "option paralysis" is concerned, I will agree with you to a point there. It can be a real issue with modern gear. It's easy to get lazy and just go with the presets, or to go to the other extreme and get lost in an endless sea of options and spend way too much time auditioning and adjusting instead of actually making music. The other day I was having a discussion with Craig Anderton about this issue, and he had a really good approach IMO: When he's searching through various sounds (in this case, I believe we were discussing virtual instrument or sample library sounds, but the same holds true for guitar effects), once he finds something he really likes, he stops. Even if he's only part of the way through auditioning the various available options, he stops and moves on to actually playing. He may come back to it later and tweak it to better fit with the rest of the arrangement, but he doesn't get overwhelmed in the sound selection process - he finds something that "works" for him, and then doesn't belabor or agonize over it.MY GOODNESS, IS THE MAN CRAZY!?!?! Crazy like a fox... here's a lot of wisdom in there. Look, I know all about the endless pursuit of the one, true, ultimate tone. It's a big part of my job... but the bigger part of my job is to capture something musical, and tone alone does not music make. It can be inspiring, it can be identifying and cool and a lot of things, but the actual personality and individuality and musicality has to come from the individual player - the gear alone - with many options or few - isn't really going to do that for you. I'd personally rather have many options available than only a few (due to the varied nature of the different things I work on), but I can appreciate a more limited and easily identifiable tonal "identity" such as players like Mark Knopfler, Brian May or Roy Buchanan are known for too. But ultimately, it's really less about the gear to me than in how it is used and what we wind up getting out of it - and if it "works" musically or not. I appreciate flexibility and options because I'm called upon to have different things on hand and know how to "get" certain types of sounds, and I want to be ready for whatever might walk through the door... but as the old recording engineer's saying goes... "just because you have 24 tracks available on the reel to reel doesn't mean you always have to fill them all". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SharkMinusBear Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 BTBAM gave me a setting for one of the distortion models that sounds EXACTLY like the BJFE Model H I owned. After hearing that, I was very impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members joeyowen Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 BTBAM gave me a setting for one of the distortion models that sounds EXACTLY like the BJFE Model H I owned. After hearing that, I was very impressed. what is it, i really wanna hear that pedal please please please share! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IRG Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 what is it, i really wanna hear that pedalplease please please share! Yes please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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