The problem with the M9 and M13

[SmelltheGlove]

These are great sounding units, and are a very good deal of you are in a cover band or just like to jam. For a band that is writing original material though, they have a real inherent problem. Too much choice.

 

 

While I sort of see and agree with your point (paralysis by over-analysis), with the M9 even if you only dialed in a single delay sound, single reverb sound, single leslie sound, etc. (all as distinctive as you want to create your own sound) you're still likely to be ahead of the game price and size-wise than if you bought all those pedals individually. That's the way I look at it anyway.

[SharkMinusBear]

 

I went down my local guitar shop and demo'd an M9 at the weekend to see what all the fuss was about ..... I still don't get all the hype around here, I'd rather use a vox tonelab. For a forum that likes to talk about 'Mojo' and the cold sterile heart of digital processers I find it mind boggling that this is the new 'must-have' ... I can see that it would work for a lot of people but I can't believe people are selling off thier pedalboards to buy these.

 

 

dude, looper!

[SharkMinusBear]

not to mention, plug it into a synth or a rhodes/keyboard = instant party in my pants.

[ben_allison]

 

So you guys who use only a few FX from the M9, why don't you just buy the real things? If you don't need all that variety aren't you defeating the purpose by only using 1-2 fuzzes and some delays?

 

 

Being able to save various setting of each, and various combinations of the various effects.

 

Another big one: MIDI switching. A must for tap-dance free performances.

 

A DMM + verbz + envelope filter + whammy +++++ ends up being VERY expensive, without presets, or preset combinations of pedals. Plus, the pedal board real estate and signal loss becomes problematic. A good multi can remedy that, and all the while, offer completely respectable models of the "actual" effects.

 

Plus, Line 6 updates them, so every so often you get more toys... for free. So that flexibilty, the extra toys, can help songwriting/exploration. If you never used a step-filter, you wouldn't buy one to screw around with. But having one kicking around in the M9... who knows, you might stumble on it as a whole song might get written. Using things you never typically would can lead to new ideas.

[NetStar]

I think playing a tele through a deluxe reverb WOULD homogenize your sound, which would be a good thing. Hearing a record where one song had a deluxe reverb, and then next an orange rockerverb, and then the next a marshall, and then the next a vox... etc, would result in a scattered mess that would sound like so many things that it would end up not really sounding like anything. That's exactly why I think the M9/M13 pedals are a mistake for a band writing original material. Even people who say they only use 3-4 of the models, you know they are going to be tempted to try to add new ones to the mix.

Still incorrect.


Take a look at bands' studio pictures and videos and the sheer amounts of backline some studios have.

For instance there was a Bloc Party DVD and Russell was using Les Pauls and Marshalls however live you will only ever see him with a Tele and a Fender Hot Rod.
He still sounds like Bloc Party because of his playing.

[melx]

dude, looper!

yeah I agree good looper, but dude...digital distortion and modulation? not for me.

[HeartfeltDawn]

Yes I hear what you are saying and I agree. It isn't that it's impossible to sound like yourself with these units, if you stick to a couple of FX you can of course keep your "sound" intact, but the whole point of these units is to have access to the huge variety of pedals they emulate. Even consider really FX based bands. Rage against the machine... Tom Morello used a very limited number of pedals, and all their guitar tones sound like they came from the same place. If the tone was completely different between songs, I don't think they would have had the same impact. Even consider radiohead, they use FX, but its always very similar delay... very similar distortion... they have a distinctive sound because they limit their choices.

 

 

Tom Morello's guitar tone has sounded the same for {censored}ing ages and is a prime example of why a couple more pedals are needed so he can get away from the kill switch/scratching technique that he still does like it's new.

 

Radiohead do not limit their choices. Jonny Greenwood's choice of pedals for instance (http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/article/2753-how-to-sound-like-radiohead-s-jonny-greenwood-.html) is not limited. For the price of his Space Echo alone, you could buy nearly two M13 units. It's also {censored}ing ridiculous for you to say Radiohead limit their FX choices when you have Greenwood using Max/MSP and the appearance of the Kaoss Pad amongst others in the gear list.

 

Next!

[spoonie g]

These are great sounding units, and are a very good deal of you are in a cover band or just like to jam. For a band that is writing original material though, they have a real inherent problem. Too much choice. Because you can bring up a whole new pedal board for every song, you end up losing any chance you had at having a distinctive sound. Sure it might not be as much fun to use only one delay pedal on every song, but if helps give you a cohesive sound. The best records have a distinct sonic character that carry on throughout throughout the whole album. You don;t need a million sounds people! (except cover bands). Flame away.

I'm sure this has been said, but you must use a ton of effects. A band's sound is a cohesive and multifaceted entity, with guitar being only a part of it. Then beyond that, most of the sound is going to be the result of the guitar and the amp. Unless you use a dirt pedal all the time. Which even then, 99.9% of people listening would not know the difference.

[SmelltheGlove]

By the way, creating a unified, cohesive sound hasn't always been considered a plus. John, Paul, and George used to go into the studio and ask the Abbey Road guys to come up with new and different ways to make themselves sound completely different from anything they'd done before. Experimentation and avoidance of rote cohesion of sound was a constant goal.

[John_McEnroe]

While I sort of see and agree with your point (paralysis by over-analysis), with the M9 even if you only dialed in a single delay sound, single reverb sound, single leslie sound, etc. (all as distinctive as you want to create your own sound) you're still likely to be ahead of the game price and size-wise than if you bought all those pedals individually. That's the way I look at it anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I get what you are saying, but if you aren't even going to use the huge array of models you are basically paying for compromised digital versions of the real thing. It also doesn't seem like many people on this board are buying these because they can't afford the real deal. In the pedal board pictures thread you can see pedal boards worth over a thousand dollars with the M9 on it...

[BHz_econo]

I know I'm getting all Robo here but -

 

a poor craftsman blames his tools...

 

 

Effects don't make the guitarist.

 

The thing is there are lots of effects that I've had and I thought were cool but I used them on one song. I can't justify a $200 pedal for one use. The M9 has similar effects but as a whole it's worth more because I WILL use the reverbs & delays on multiple songs but I will still have the other effects on retainer if needed.

 

If you don't set out to try to use everything it will work out. I try to write good songs on the acoustic first and add everything else later.

[ben_allison]

 

compromised digital versions of the real thing.

 

 

Assumption. Some models are as good... blind testing will remove the biases. We often hear with our eyes and our egos.

 

Not having 600ms or tap on the DMM is a compromise in terms of function. And that's to say nothing of the bulk, or noise and horrid clipping which ARE tonal. Having 90-98% of the same tone, with those extra features, is hardly a compromise.

 

Your troll attempt is crashing and burning.

[joeyowen]

do you own one op?

[GuyaGuy]

It's not a matter of change, it's matter of too much choice. I am all for modern pedals like the Pog2 and the Hog, and some of the eventide boxes. The thing with the M9/M13 is that you become too much like a chameleon, going from one sound to the next without really letting your audience get a distinctive vibe from you. Limitations result in far more creativity than infinite choice IMO.

 

 

maybe YOU become a chameleon; there's no reason to assume everyone else does.

 

any time i've used mega-super pedals (DL4, Magicstomp, etc.) i've found 5-10 sounds i like and stuck with those for the most part. it's not about using ALL of the effects. it's about finding the ones that work for you. for example, i'll probably never use 90% of the filter effects on the M9. but i'll have quite a few analog delay "presets."

 

ever listen to Washing Machine by Sonic Youth? there's a Ludwig Phase Synth on one song on the whole album (AFAIK). they had it at their disposal and used the sound for a certain texture. and yet they still sound exactly like Sonic Youth on that song.

[HeartfeltDawn]

 

I get what you are saying, but if you aren't even going to use the huge array of models you are basically paying for compromised digital versions of the real thing. It also doesn't seem like many people on this board are buying these because they can't afford the real deal. In the pedal board pictures thread you can see pedal boards worth over a thousand dollars with the M9 on it...

 

 

 

 

Why are you so {censored}ing surprised? The iPod has already shown that people are happy to pay out for something musical that isn't as high quality as something that preceeded it, in this case the compact disc, but they are happy to pay that cash out in the name of portability and convenience, the iPod's strengths. The M-series pedals are no different. Ease of use is the main thing with the M9 and M13. Decent sound coupled with simple ease of use. Instead of six single modulation or delay pedals, each needing their own power outlet, each needing 2 cables either side, I could plug one of these in.

[GuyaGuy]

Assumption. Some models are as good... blind testing will remove the biases. We often hear with our eyes and our egos. Not having 600ms or tap on the DMM is a compromise in terms of function. And that's to say nothing of the bulk, or noise and horrid clipping which ARE tonal. Having 90-98% of the same tone, with those extra features, is hardly a compromise. Your troll attempt is crashing and burning.

true.
also, what's the real deal of a 56 sec built in delay? or MIDI sync? or global tap tempo? or even digital delay?

[John_McEnroe]

Hey everyone I am not trying to troll. I just thought it was an interesting discussion.

 

I do not own one of these units, but I do own a pod X3 (which I love). I use the pod for practicing and getting ideas down, but I always replace them with a real amp later.

[joeyowen]

if you dont own one, how can you compare what its like to use one

 

if anything i would rather it to a pod cause it is like stomp boxes as opposed to a completely different interface

[Naterel]

sometimes people would rather eat a cookie

than a Pizza with everything on it

[John_McEnroe]

Why are you so {censored}ing surprised? The iPod has already shown that people are happy to pay out for something musical that isn't as high quality as something that preceeded it, in this case the compact disc, but they are happy to pay that cash out in the name of portability and convenience, the iPod's strengths. The M-series pedals are no different. Ease of use is the main thing with the M9 and M13. Decent sound coupled with simple ease of use. Instead of six single modulation or delay pedals, each needing their own power outlet, each needing 2 cables either side, I could plug one of these in.

I don't know what I said to upset you but whatever it was I apologize . I am not trying to insult your M9.


As for your previous comment regarding RATM and radiohead, RATM benefitted a great deal from having that stripped down FX setup. You could recognize a Tom Morello riff a mile away... how many guitarists can you say that about? He had a distinct sound because he limited the FX he was using and was just extremely creative with them. As for radiohead, jonny greenwood has been using a teleplus into the same two amps for virtually his entire career, and is so strongly associated with the roland tape delay that people state that he uses it in their craigslist ads. Of course they also use other instruments and pedals, but each one of their records has a very distinctive sound (except hail to the thief, their worst record).

[John_McEnroe]

sometimes people would rather eat a cookie than a Pizza with everything on it

[NetStar]

As for your previous comment regarding RATM and radiohead, RATM benefitted a great deal from having that stripped down FX setup. You could recognize a Tom Morello riff a mile away... how many guitarists can you say that about? .

[melx]

Why are you so {censored}ing surprised? The iPod has already shown that people are happy to pay out for something musical that isn't as high quality as something that preceeded it, in this case the compact disc, but they are happy to pay that cash out in the name of portability and convenience, the iPod's strengths. The M-series pedals are no different. Ease of use is the main thing with the M9 and M13. Decent sound coupled with simple ease of use. Instead of six single modulation or delay pedals, each needing their own power outlet, each needing 2 cables either side, I could plug one of these in.

 

 

I totally agree, the only thing that confuses me is that it's happening on this forum.. it's not something I could have predicted. This forum used to thrive on expensive cable kits, expensive bootique pedals, pedal board arrangement, 'look at my 3 delay pedals' 'digital is {censored}' 'multi effects are crap' 'zachman'd, made in usa, 'I hate menus' True bypass.... etc etc... and all that nonsense. This really does seem like a big turnaround for the forum, which is probably a good thing.... but I can still see all the 'well I liked it but in the end it just didn't cut it' and 'I really missed my ......' threads in 6 months time. It will be interesting anyway.....

[Crxsh]

Look here troll: I've been able to replicate -- and rather convincingly, mind you -- the sounds of most of my favorite dedicated with this thing.... dirt or otherwise.

 

I mean, think smaller for a second. It can do a hundred different things, yes... but much like cable television, I only watch a small handful of the available channels on a regular basis. Should the desire to watch something out of the ordinary arise though, it's nice knowing that's an option.

 

It's the same w/ the M9. For $400 or whatever, I can pull off sounds similar to a pedalboard 5x it's cost..... and then some.

[hosebeast]

I see you point. But I wonder, if Randy Rhodes or Jimi Henrix were alive today, and saw the options available to them, do you think they would really pick only 3-4 pedals, that are really quite lo-fi by today standards?

 

 

 

i think they would pretty much lol @ line 6 and everything they've ever done and use stuff that didn't just get people by that had no talent. these things are so hilariously bad, i really wish people would stop talking about them.