The problem with the M9 and M13

[mlabbee]

This whole thread is just silly. Saying the number of options available to someone somehow dictates the outcome is belied by the phenomenal variety of art that is created by individuals with the whole spectrum of resources available to them. Rothko created one of the most sublime works of art using nothing but black paint (see the Rothko Chapel) despite being a very successful artist at the time who could have used any number of colors . . . Finster created works of incredible emotional and spiritual complexity (and lots of different colors) with virtually no resources at his disposal.

If someone wants to create art, they will - and they will usually use the constraints of their resources (i.e., the lack thereof or the "option anxiety") as an integral part of their expression (and likely part of their process).

[Parah Salin]

I write in acoustic first and apply effects later. This is why my acoustic will be the last guitar I'll ever sell. A piano/keyboard works just as well sometimes.

[asynchro_nous]

I'd say a box like an M9 or M13 would be great for someone who is either:

already familiar with the possibilities and limitations of most of the original effects modeled and has a fairly clear vision of what they want to do with sound

or

is quite new to effects and has a passionate desire to shape, mold and blend sound with few preconceptions.


Now if you fall in the middle somewhere ........

[HeartfeltDawn]

Hey I am not implying that correlation is causation, but you can't argue that they are not correlated.

 

 

 

Actually I can and will argue that. The Flaming Lips have produced their very best material a long time after releasing their debut album, and when they've had greater access to more equipment. The Beatles had their best work a long time after the debut and when they had more money, equipment, and fame than ever before. Lots of examples are there.

[OldCrankyDouche]

These are great sounding units, and are a very good deal of you are in a cover band or just like to jam. For a band that is writing original material though, they have a real inherent problem. Too much choice. Because you can bring up a whole new pedal board for every song, you end up losing any chance you had at having a distinctive sound. Sure it might not be as much fun to use only one delay pedal on every song, but if helps give you a cohesive sound. The best records have a distinct sonic character that carry on throughout throughout the whole album. You don;t need a million sounds people! (except cover bands). Flame away.

I just got my M13, and Ill most likely use ONE scene and the looper. To me thats worth far more than the $$ than I paid.

[joeyowen]

 

I just got my M13, and Ill most likely use ONE scene and the looper. To me thats worth far more than the $$ than I paid.

 

 

i agrreeeeeee

[RoboPimp]

I just got my M13, and Ill most likely use ONE scene and the looper. To me thats worth far more than the $$ than I paid.

this is the same reasoning I have used for my GNX3 for about 7 years now

everyone is acting like these have never been available before.

welcome to the club everyone

I've always used the best of both analog and digital instead of going around in circles countless times in the last handful of years like some pxxplx

like phil mentioned, find what works and stop searching. If you can't find something that works relatively easily it's probably not the gear. Finding "good tone" isn't that hard.

people who are on a continual "tone search", constantly flipping gear and going from one extreme to the other really only prove one thing for certain: even they don't like their tone and apparently they can't figure out how to fix it.

John McEnroe has a point, but it's nothing to do with the M13/9 or what have you, it's that this endless gear/tone searching sometimes seems to be more important than making music for a lot of people here and while all the gear and toys can be fun they are also sometimes a distraction.

[joeyowen]

robo that is the most useful thing i have ever read of yours and i agree with every word!

[Alt-me]

this is the same reasoning I have used for my GNX3 for about 7 years now everyone is acting like these have never been available before. welcome to the club everyone I've always used the best of both analog and digital instead of going around in circles countless times in the last handful of years like some pxxplx like phil mentioned, find what works and stop searching. If you can't find something that works relatively easily it's probably not the gear. Finding "good tone" isn't that hard. people who are on a continual "tone search", constantly flipping gear and going from one extreme to the other really only prove one thing for certain: even they don't like their tone and apparently they can't figure out how to fix it. John McEnroe has a point, but it's nothing to do with the M13/9 or what have you, it's that this endless gear/tone searching sometimes seems to be more important than making music for a lot of people here and while all the gear and toys can be fun they are also sometimes a distraction.

+1

You hit the nail on the head there man. I've been in that hole for a year now, obsessed with buying and selling and tweaking, now I've just bought a new guitar and everything seems to have fixed itself, but at the expense of a years worth missed out on practice and writing time

I now leave my board at the practice room and just play acoustic/straight to SS combo to ensure that I'm playing GUITAR and not little boxes made of ticky-tacky...

[spentron]

One thing about discussing what Hendrix "would have done" missed by most people is that a lot of the stuff he used was junk, and while he probably wouldn't use an M9, if you think he'd use the exact same gear today ....

 

 

The other day I was having a discussion with Craig Anderton about this issue, and he had a really good approach IMO: When he's searching through various sounds (in this case, I believe we were discussing virtual instrument or sample library sounds, but the same holds true for guitar effects), once he finds something he really likes, he stops . Even if he's only part of the way through auditioning the various available options, he stops and moves on to actually playing.

 

 

I have my own approach to presets also: I don't use them. After the first 5 minutes, I don't audition them or anything, I just get into actual parameters. I also prefer continuous type control functions, and will tend to be frustrated by preset-like switched type settings such as selectable models.

 

One example, I've been moving towards using only 2 sounds on my Synth Wah. However, as these 2 settings include knobs far from center, if the thing only had 2 sounds on it, you can bet they wouldn't be the 2 sounds I use.

 

Haven't tried the M9, but my previous experience with "do anything" type units is they usually lack some option I really want, despite being easily criticized for doing too much.

 

 

Let's look at something limited, and very traditional - the typical 40 piece classical orchestra. Strings, brass, percussion, woodwinds... it's a pretty "fixed" gear list, and although there are some inherent limitations to it, you can do a LOT with an orchestra, depending on how those elements are combined and utilized.

 

 

I thought you were being sarcastic at first. The possibilities make all these toys look pretty toyish, although price-wise, the orchestra make's Zachman's rig look like a Fab OD by comparison.

[red_riviera]

I'm writing this whilst listening to The Queen is Dead by the Smiths. I love Johnny Marr. That's the perfect musician for me: someone who is inventive, someone who uses all the studio tricks he could at the time, someone who uses all the technology, be it digital processors or vintage amps, and who comes up with truly memorable music. I bet you he'll use an M13 at some point.

He's been using one for months. Good enough for me.

Or we could all free ourselves from creative paralysis by dispensing with gear altogether. Just singing and armpit fart noises.

[Secret Seasons]

one word:

radiohead.

what do I mean exactly? thats for you to figure out.

[Crxsh]

 

John McEnroe has a point, but it's nothing to do with the M13/9 or what have you, it's that this endless gear/tone searching sometimes seems to be more important than making music for a lot of people here and while all the gear and toys can be fun they are also sometimes a distraction.

 

 

People have different reasons for playing stuff or buying stuff or whatever. Just because the goal for some people doesn't equate what you're looking for doesn't mean it's wrong or bad or foolish. Not everyone paints for the same reason. Or writes for the same reason.

 

....why should this be any different?

[ben_allison]

this is the same reasoning I have used for my GNX3 for about 7 years now everyone is acting like these have never been available before. welcome to the club everyone I've always used the best of both analog and digital instead of going around in circles countless times in the last handful of years like some pxxplx like phil mentioned, find what works and stop searching. If you can't find something that works relatively easily it's probably not the gear. Finding "good tone" isn't that hard. people who are on a continual "tone search", constantly flipping gear and going from one extreme to the other really only prove one thing for certain: even they don't like their tone and apparently they can't figure out how to fix it.

 

Was this post written with fatty, or sans-fatty?

 

Whatever state you were in when you wrote this, I highly encourage it.

[Chippy]

It's not a matter of change, it's matter of too much choice. I am all for modern pedals like the Pog2 and the Hog, and some of the eventide boxes. The thing with the M9/M13 is that you become too much like a chameleon, going from one sound to the next without really letting your audience get a distinctive vibe from you. Limitations result in far more creativity than infinite choice IMO.

 

 

Disagreed.

[RoboPimp]

Was this post written with fatty, or sans-fatty? Whatever state you were in when you wrote this, I highly encourage it.

 

 

this has always been my stance, every now and then I guess it needs to be said. sober or otherwise.

 

of course not everyone has the same opinion, but it's nice to see a few who can understand it.

 

like I said, the toys are fun and sure there's new sounds to be found but for me "to be excited by the sounds coming out of my amp" has very little to do with what gear I'm using.

[C-4]

These are great sounding units, and are a very good deal of you are in a cover band or just like to jam. For a band that is writing original material though, they have a real inherent problem. Too much choice. Because you can bring up a whole new pedal board for every song, you end up losing any chance you had at having a distinctive sound. Sure it might not be as much fun to use only one delay pedal on every song, but if helps give you a cohesive sound. The best records have a distinct sonic character that carry on throughout throughout the whole album. You don;t need a million sounds people! (except cover bands). Flame away.

I was seriously looking at an M-13 and a TC Nova System, but finally went with the Nova System for basically the reasons you have stated.

Sure, it is great to have so many choices in different sounds as the M-13 offers, but once most people find a sound they like for a delay, or other effect, they tend to use it alone, or in combination with other effects they find and like.

Since the NS has many quality but "standard" effects, I felt that I would get more out of the unit with these. I have always developed my particular tones from basic and subtle use of minimal effects and it has served me well.

I play mostly in cover bands and find that my sound is commercial and recognizable, which is what most people want to hear when listening in an audience.

[ben_allison]

 

this has always been my stance, every now and then I guess it needs to be said. sober or otherwise. of course not everyone has the same opinion, but it's nice to see a few who can understand it. like I said, the toys are fun and sure there's new sounds to be found but for me "to be excited by the sounds coming out of my amp" has very little to do with what gear I'm using.

 

 

I just meant the rather straightforward way you said it!

 

But I agree. I think where I differ slightly (and maybe you'd actually agree with this) is that when I'm recording a track, I generally have a very specific tone in mind. I can "hear" it. When I turn on an amp, throw up a mic, hit record and hear something that doesn't line up with what I hear in my mind, that's when the tone search begins.

 

I agree, a good tone is not hard to find. The aimless "it's not good enough" attitude doesn't really jive with me. I think where it becomes a bit of an ordeal is when you have a specific vision, and because you're a perfectionist/stickler/masochist/etc, you'll chase down a certain "tone" because it will take the song forward and help it to be fully realized.

[TheCardiacKid]

...when I'm recording a track, I generally have a very specific tone in mind. I can "hear" it. When I turn on an amp, throw up a mic, hit record and hear something that doesn't line up with what I hear in my mind, that's when the tone search begins. I agree, a good tone is not hard to find. The aimless "it's not good enough" attitude doesn't really jive with me. I think where it becomes a bit of an ordeal is when you have a specific vision, and because you're a perfectionist/stickler/masochist/etc, you'll chase down a certain "tone" because it will take the song forward and help it to be fully realized.

couldn't have said it any better.

[crowguitar]

when I'm recording a track, I generally have a very specific tone in mind. I can "hear" it. When I turn on an amp, throw up a mic, hit record and hear something that doesn't line up with what I hear in my mind, that's when the tone search begins. I agree, a good tone is not hard to find. The aimless "it's not good enough" attitude doesn't really jive with me. I think where it becomes a bit of an ordeal is when you have a specific vision, and because you're a perfectionist/stickler/masochist/etc, you'll chase down a certain "tone" because it will take the song forward and help it to be fully realized.

 

 

Im in concurrence as well...

[OnWingsOfLead]

These are great sounding units, and are a very good deal of you are in a cover band or just like to jam. For a band that is writing original material though, they have a real inherent problem. Too much choice. Because you can bring up a whole new pedal board for every song, you end up losing any chance you had at having a distinctive sound. Sure it might not be as much fun to use only one delay pedal on every song, but if helps give you a cohesive sound. The best records have a distinct sonic character that carry on throughout throughout the whole album. You don;t need a million sounds people! (except cover bands). Flame away.

Only if you are indecisive....if you know what sounds you really want and will use I don't see that as a problem at all:rolleyes: