Tape Cassettes

[triviani]

As a bonus, there is this amazing site that collects old cassettes from Africa musicians. Some of the stuff sounds amazing, and it's not much important that was recorded who knows how and put into a cassette, then ripped for the internet.

 

Awesome tapes from Africa

[McManus]

I've bought some nice band posters, custom pint glasses, and a really well designed and printed t-shirt in the last few months. Although I think cassettes are an anachronistic contrivance in every possible respect; a single well thought out fun piece of band relevant merch is something that a surprising amount of bands lack.

 

Still say cassette has a case of the hipsterz.

[Zappa74]

cassettes are the worst

[A.P. Ryder]

http://blog.allmusic.com/2012/01/24/all-tape-guide-january-2012/#more-11864

 

Interesting comments.

[Cirrus]

BTW: Judging by your bassist's pants and demeanor, you guys don't worry about turning people off . Unfortunately, I can't get the sound to work on my work PC.

He'll never live that down, I've never seen him wear anything so awesome/ tasteless since. Thanks for clicking the link!

[AimmarCair]

 

As a bonus, there is this amazing site that collects old cassettes from Africa musicians. Some of the stuff sounds amazing, and it's not much important that was recorded who knows how and put into a cassette, then ripped for the internet. Awesome tapes from Africa

 

 

I use that site a lot for teh samplez.

[fuzzface71]

Lately I've been noticing quite a few local bands doing 'limited releases' of their music on cassette, and I've seen a few more prominent bands do the same in the past. It's got me thinking, what's the point of this? Is it just an ironic gesture? I honestly can't figure why you would want to spend money to release your music on low fidelity format that is, by and large, out of use. Is this just a means of giving people a tangible form of music in the digital age? Your thoughts please. If anyone has a good defense for this practice I would sincerely like to hear it.

 

 

 

My friend's band also did this. He said they are trying to cater for the hipsters.

[SonicMayhem42]

I hate cassette tapes. It reminds me of when I had my 4-track. At the time it was great and it even had double speed recording, but I was so excited when I moved to computer based recording. My recordings are not professional by any standards but the noise on the old tape recordings and the loss of quality from ping pong recording makes me cringe. I also do not like mediums of music where the listening of the music slowly kills the music.

[Pine Apple Slim]

My friend's band also did this. He said they are trying to cater for the hipsters.

 

Live long enough and you will be hip again!

[fuzzface71]

 

Live long enough and you will be hip again!

 

 

 

SWEET!

[echodeluxe]

Okay, you're comparing it to streaming. Fair enough. But that's not something you can sell at your gig, or send to a radio station.

 

 

I worked at the biggest alternative rock station in northern California. They just last year got rid of all of their analog playback equipment. Ie record players, tape decks, dats, etc. If you sent them a cassette, thy would lol and toss it in the garbage. But only after the djs posed with it in pictures to put on the website making fun of it.

 

Sad reality of progress bro.

[|\|\|\]

they were probably hoping you'd broadcast the picture of the tape's artwork over the airwaves

[Cassette]

[echodeluxe]

this thread is fascinating.

[Phil O'Keefe]

you seem to look down on any method of distributing music that doesn't keep it the same quality that you as an engineer get to hear. i partly understand that...it's like creating a movie in hi-def but then everyone just watches it on small black and white tube televisions. HOWEVER, 90% of listeners, even when given 24 bit wav files, will still listen to them on the {censored}tiest systems possible. earbud headphones, laptop speakers, mini docking stations, etc...just because you CAN distribute the highest resolution digital files, doesn't mean that's always going to be the "best" route for getting people to hear it. most tape decks are hooked into hi-fi systems...a lot of ipods are not.

You're right - people DO listen on some pretty cheesy systems. And a lot of iPods aren't connected... but many are.

In general, I don't make music for those who are apathetic. I want to reach them, sure... but they don't care about music very much, and so they're not my focus. The ones who will be more likely to get it are the ones who are a bit more passionate about music. Sure, your laptop speakers beat no music at all, but if you're in a place where you have a choice, wouldn't you prefer to hear it on something nicer?

I absolutely agree with you that high-res files are going to be largely ignored at first. But so was stereo when it was first released, although then, as now, some people really were interested. My main point has been that I hope we can get some improved playback standards. Yes, some people will still listen on crap systems, but if we can raise the bar a bit and get people talking about and interested in hearing things a little better, that might change a bit.

You're right - it IS like doing HD and knowing the audience is watching in black and white. But most people aren't using B&W TV sets anymore, are they? I'd like to see a similar level of interest in improved audio fidelity at the consumer level. Again, not audiophile bullpucky, but real, decent improvements. As Internet bandwidth and speeds increase, there's really no reason why it can't be done from a technical standpoint. No, it won't be needed in every situation, and no, it won't be appreciated by everyone at first, but in time...

more than that, you're still not acknowledging that most people who release cassettes use digital downloads. heavily.

I've never argued that they weren't. There were some comments relating to cassette-only releases earlier in the thread, and maybe something I said regarding that may have given you the wrong impression, but I certainly do not think everyone is doing cassette only releases and neglecting download sales.

if you think for even 1 minute that releasing a USB drive with pictures, videos, etc is a financially feasible task for most independent bands, you clearly haven't looked into their manufacturing costs. at a certain threshold, sure, you can get them for $2 a pop. of course, at that point you're buying 1000 of them, totally defeating the point of a limited run to begin with.

Buy 1,000 units at $2 a pop

Put whatever you want on to some of them - say, two hundred. Sell as a limited run / edition.

Repeat the process for your next release. You've already got the thumb drives with the band logo ready to go. True, it cost you to buy them up front, but it's branded with your logo, and you can make as many or as few as you want per release, and you'll have enough on hand to handle a few releases. They will all have the same physical appearance, but get creative to get around that. Put a red dot on the second release.

TL;DR : nobody is saying digital isn't convenient and high-quality. it's simply not the answer to all listening situations.

Fair enough - I can concede that.

[theboywho]

I think a lot of it is the collectability and the fact it's something physical, people like things they can hold and that look good. It's kind of what 7" used to be, but vinyl is now more popular than it was a while back and is almost the usual way to do things now.

 

A lot of the time the tapes come with a download code, so people probably only listen to the tape itself a couple of times, if at all, but it's a way of having something physical to go with the MP3s, usually at the same cost. Also, in a gig environment I'm sure a lot of people having liked a band would rather buy something at a gig, rather than waiting to get home and download it.

 

For our first e.p. we are probably going to skip the cd, except maybe for a limited run we can do ourself, and go for a vinyl release and a VHS tape, both with download codes, as well as the usual digital release.

[Cassette]

In general, I don't make music for those who are apathetic. I want to reach them, sure... but they don't care about music very much, and so they're not my focus. The ones who will be more likely to get it are the ones who are a bit more passionate about music. Sure, your laptop speakers beat no music at all, but if you're in a place where you have a choice, wouldn't you prefer to hear it on something nicer?

 

I know you're not trying to be elitist, but this is pretty elitist. The quality of your equipment has ZERO to do with your passion for whatever you are up to. Saying that the people who will get it will likely own more (and more expensive) equipment is pretty lame. If your music can't appeal to the dudes with modest setups, then the music is necessarily elitist.

 

Would I rather have the broke dude with an old thrift store tape deck or the yuppie with the rad hi-fi listening to my music? Probably the broke dude. Hi-fi bro can go jerk off to the fact that his system can adequately reproduce the sound of David Gilmour breathing under all the music. Some of the most musically passionate dudes are rocking pretty modest to downright crappy music setups (and that includes amps/guitars/etc.). I realize that as a studio dude you believe in high quality sound, but I think its a mistake to believe that this must be mandatory. What is the harm if somebody can't hear the difference between 320kbps mp3s and whatever that better than CD bitrate/resolution is?

 

As a side note, I entirely believe it's possible to love music but not particularly care about fidelity. I couldn't care less about digital formats higher than CD quality. CD sounds good to me.

 

Buy 1,000 units at $2 a pop Put whatever you want on to some of them - say, two hundred. Sell as a limited run / edition. Repeat the process for your next release. You've already got the thumb drives with the band logo ready to go. True, it cost you to buy them up front, but it's branded with your logo, and you can make as many or as few as you want per release, and you'll have enough on hand to handle a few releases. They will all have the same physical appearance, but get creative to get around that. Put a red dot on the second release.

 

but then its not limited anymore. There are 1000 of them. Even if you sell 200 of one and 200 of another, etc., you're still selling 1000 identical, boring flash drives. As soon as anyone gets one, they'll take the music off and use the drive to store some files. I can't imagine seriously paying for a flash drive with digital files. It's preposterous. Tape + digital download gets you the digital files and a tape with cool packaging and an interesting artifact that, outside of a few archaic computer uses, is necessarily music-related. Music on a flash drive gets you digital files and a trinket. The fact that the tape/CD/record only serves one purpose is what makes it magical. If you make a tape of your music, you are committing that tape to one singular purpose. If you've got a Ramones record sitting in the corner, it houses Ramones music. If you've got a Ramones flash drive, it could have anything. It isn't a musical format. It's a novelty.

 

Cassettes are cool. CDs are cool. 8 tracks are cool. Vinyl is cool. DAT is cool. Flashdrives hold homework and files for work. Bands get psyched about pressing their first record/making their first tape, but any band that gets psyched about getting their box of custom printed flashdrives back from the "we can put your company logo on generic office products" store is too lame to even bother listening to.

[triviani]

Put a red dot on the second release.

 

[amp_surgeon]

but then its not limited anymore. There are 1000 of them. Even if you sell 200 of one and 200 of another, etc., you're still selling 1000 identical, boring flash drives. As soon as anyone gets one, they'll take the music off and use the drive to store some files. I can't imagine seriously paying for a flash drive with digital files. It's preposterous. Tape + digital download gets you the digital files and a tape with cool packaging and an interesting artifact that, outside of a few archaic computer uses, is necessarily music-related. Music on a flash drive gets you digital files and a trinket. The fact that the tape/CD/record only serves one purpose is what makes it magical. If you make a tape of your music, you are committing that tape to one singular purpose. If you've got a Ramones record sitting in the corner, it houses Ramones music. If you've got a Ramones flash drive, it could have anything. It isn't a musical format. It's a novelty. Cassettes are cool. CDs are cool. 8 tracks are cool. Vinyl is cool. DAT is cool. Flashdrives hold homework and files for work. Bands get psyched about pressing their first record/making their first tape, but any band that gets psyched about getting their box of custom printed flashdrives back from the "we can put your company logo on generic office products" store is too lame to even bother listening to.

I could buy this view about vinyl. It's a media format that's never been about anything else other than music. It has a sound that people genuinely like, in spite of it's quirks. There's massive space for liner notes and artwork. And, you can still buy new high-quality playback equipment for it. In fact, a resurgence in interest in LP's has brought manufacturers of playback equipment back.

I can buy this view about CD's, but to a slightly lesser degree because they also saw widespread use as a data storage medium for computers. However, new playback equipment is still common and affordable, and most people have something they can play a CD on.

8-tracks? Nobody has playback equipment for these anymore. Almost nobody makes playback equipment for these anymore. The format is notoriously prone to snagged and broken tapes, rapid wear, and you have to subdivide an LP into four segments instead of two like LP's. DAT? Same equipment problems as 8-track, plus they never saw widespread acceptance outside of the music and sound professional industries, so only a comparative handful of people ever had playback equipment for them.

Cassettes were more widely accepted than either 8-track or DAT, and were popular for a much longer period of time. However, the format has died, for all intents and purposes. Few manufacturers still make playback equipment for them. Sony ceased production of it's last cassette Walkman in 2010, and has no intention of ever making another cassette player for the consumer market. The fact that retailers still have plenty of stock of new players that haven't been made in a couple of years is a pretty strong testament to the complete lack of demand.

You said it yourself, though not in exactly the same words. The main reason for releasing music on cassette now would be the retro coolness factor, and not because it's actually a practical medium for music distribution. Most of the people who might buy one will never actually listen to it because they don't have playback equipment, and they're not going to go to the Salvation Army store to buy an old Walkman. Including a download code so that they can get the music in a format they can actually use reduces the cassette to a piece of generic merch, not really much different from a t-shirt.

I see Phil's point about USB thumb drives, and I agree with you that it's a trinket, but at least it's a practical trinket people would actually use. The downside as a medium for music distribution is that most people will still have to wait until they get home to listen to the music because they can't plug the thumb drive into their phone or car sound system. On the upside, you can get USB drives made in practically any sort of package you like. For instance, if you've got a band named Drunk Baboons then you could get keychains made with a little injection molded baboon holding a bottle, and a rounded red rubber cap over the USB plug on his ass.

That's why I suggested microSD cards. At this particular instant in time, the majority of people have phones and/or portable music players with microSD card slots. Yes, you're not going to put liner notes or artwork on a tiny memory card, but you could bundle the card with a more practical piece of artistic merch like a booklet or calendar. You could even put the card in a CD style jewel box or cassette box. The point is if you're going to sell music then the media ought to be something people can actually use for it's intended purpose, and not just be a quirky retro souvenir that sits on a shelf.

[caeman]

 

Lately I've been noticing quite a few local bands doing 'limited releases' of their music on cassette, and I've seen a few more prominent bands do the same in the past. It's got me thinking, what's the point of this? Is it just an ironic gesture? I honestly can't figure why you would want to spend money to release your music on low fidelity format that is, by and large, out of use. Is this just a means of giving people a tangible form of music in the digital age? Your thoughts please. If anyone has a good defense for this practice I would sincerely like to hear it.

 

 

You have just dissed everyone that believes in Analog effects pedals. You know that, right?

[triviani]

It's pretty much a hipster thing IMO. I bet that most of the people who want to release music on cassette tape were not even born at the time it was THE music medium

I just got it :lol:

[yanktar]

What is crazy is that when Beta Hi-Fi recorders came out, their audio was just about the finest you could buy--and you could get a Sanyo for $400-- They outperformed the best reel-to-reel decks in every measure: Frequency range, wow and flutter, S/N ratio, decibel saturation...everything. The VHS Hi-Fi came out and IT was nearly as capable as Beta Hi-Fi, though the controls were slower. You could copy a cassette to B-Hi-Fi then to another cassette with zero noticeable degradation.

But the Beta Hi-Fi tapes were big and the VHS bigger. Even the compact VHS and Hi-8 Hi-Fi while amazing, were too tough to use.

Still, my Nakamichi Dragon and Metal tape gives pretty damn good results.

[conky]

 

I agree about the album art and that is my only hesitance toward ruling out physical releases altogether. At the same time; its music. I know the album art can be or is an extension of the music and can serve a purpose but I'd like to see just bands releasing music and thats it.

 

 

Yeah, I get what you are saying but if I wanna listen to mp3s I will stream it online for free.

[penelope twee]

The way to sell music at gigs is surely to ADD value over the itunes misery, not to take away what little extra value there is?

 

 

Indeed. Most of the bands I've seen selling tapes would usually have a very limited potential audience and they may well suspect that the majority of people at each gig would have already downloaded their entire back catalogue for free (which might be less than 20 songs in a lot of cases). Selling something vaguely unique and/or collectible for

[melx]

As far as terrestrial radio, why worry about it or bother with it? Seriously - unless you're doing Top 40, radio's not going to "break" you to the masses as an artist, and even college radio is a shadow of its former self. Radio is last century's paradigm, and the last thing I'd focus on as a young or emerging musical artist.

 

 

I know things are different over there... but here I don't think that's the case at all, I guess because we have the BBC playing to the whole country, most recent music I've found out about was because I heard them on the radio, last year Yuck were getting played 2 or 3 times a day on 'BBC6 music' and as a result I heard them and bought a ticket to go see them. I usually listen to Steve Lamacq's show everyday and Jarvis Cocker and Huey Morgan on a sunday when I can, it's my primary source for hearing good new (and old) music I didn't know about.