Members thegame Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 Originally posted by maz_master Only saw pics and descriptions of the Mako and Herbert. Without knowing more detail regarding the mounting structure and thickness of the Herbert PCB (to support PCB-mounted power tubes), it's hard to compare the two. They can easily be equally hardy. Build quality is more than PTP layout and chassis-mounted tubes. For example, my first Shiva was built like a tank and generally used all of the techniques recognized as contributing to low failure rate in the field. However, the power tubes used extremely high plate voltages for EL34s/6L6s (around 520V) and were biased at near the max idle plate dissipation (Class AB should not run much beyond 60-70%). Yet, when I found other design problems in the amp (discussed below), Reinhold admitted to me that the hot bias and high voltage resulted in a lot of failures in the field. So, on future Shivas (one of which I owned), they reduced both (which also affected the tone, IMO). You can't see plate voltages and idle currents in a picture, so how can you compare that parameter? Another example of poor quality on the early Shivas was the low relay coil current-limiting resistor which resulted in burned out channel and boost switching relay coils. Can't see that in a picture either. Another example of poor quality on the early Shivas was the excessively low resistance of the current limiting resistors in series with the LEDs in the footswitch. They eventually caused the LEDs to burn out or become intermittent, thus opening the circuit and causing channel switching oscillation during gigs!!! This happened to me at two packed gigs! Bogner had no clue why this was happening. They initially denied it completely but after I spent the better part of a weekend finding that problem and offering them a circuit (which required simultaneous equations to solve) which properly sized the current limiting resistors for both the boost and gain LEDs, Reinhold called me at home, thanked me for finding the problem and then finally admitted they were seeing a lot of these failures in the field. First of all, the LEDs should not be in the switching path, but if they are, they should be properly limited for current! Bogner did neither. Can't see that kind of thing in a picture either. So, it's impossible to simply look at pics of the Herbert and Mako and predict which will be more reliable on the road! There's just too much else going on with component values and circuit architecture. An improperly sized resistor in a PTP MIL-SPEC layout will fail just as readily as one in a cheap PCB circuit! Yes, there are some general things to look for in a pic (like chassis-mounted power tubes, pots, switches, jacks, etc), but it only tells part of the story. But, knowing the reps of both Andrew and Peter, I'd bet my next paycheck that both products are equally road-worthy. Alright, I see what your saying about the Bogner. Would my past comments on Diezel build quality make more sense if I replaced the term "build quality" with "structural integrity?".Alot of the stuff you're talking about is circuit design issues. I was refering to the structural rigidity of the entire unit only, which again has nothing to do with sound or operational characteristics, but has everything to do with how much abuse the amp can take, which is important when the amp is tossed around alot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thegame Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 Originally posted by steve10358 I know for a fact that the Diezel is THICKER than any of the amps you've stated. S. No, that statement is just plain wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Snider Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 Originally posted by maz_master Yeah, but you like the Two-Rock stuff better than the Fuchs, which I can't understand at all, except for personal preference differences. I just listened to some Custom Reverb Signature clips and they sound really, really bad, IMO, not even remotely close in tonal quality to the Fuchs. So, maybe you're hearing the same kind of things with the Herbert versus the Einstein/VH4. Well then I guess my bandmate is hearing this too as he has an Einstein and sold his Herbert as the Einstein killed it in the band setting.The Einstein is a better amp.The Einstein has a much fuller frequency range and is a bit more organic sounding but that said still not as good as the other stuff I have . The two -Two Rock amps I have are not Two Rocks, one is completely gutted by Bill from TR and the other was made from scratch. They are three channels with independent eq, Clean, Dumble (2nd channel) as well as a high gain Marshall style circuit for the high gain stuff(3rd Channel) which not one Two Rock ever made contains, not this circuit anyway. As far as Fuchs goes- a Zendrive pedal into any Fender is that that tone or close enough, lots of gain, rolled off highs with the proper mids is an easy emulation of the Fuchs. I have owned 5 fuchs including a 100 watt SLX modded amp so I am familiar with the tones. I can make either of my Krinards sound exactly like a fuchs but not vice versa.If the amps I have right now were not better than the Diezels, Mako CH100, VHTs and Two Rocks and Bogners and Fuchs etc, I would still have some of them but everything has been booted by the Suhr OD100SE with Whomp which is pretty damn cool, and the two Krinards which are amazing. I hope the Cauble shakes up the roost next. It is all subjective and I hope you like the Herbert but I can guarantee within a year you will not own it anymore because you have a good set of ears and are used to the HotCat and Z which share nothing with Herbie. As I have said , the Herbert sounds great in a room by itself. It sounds great at low volumes. It sounds good in power trios.It will not cut it in live situations and if you don't believe me then ask Neil Schon or James Hetfield or Buckethead or Adam Jones or a bunch of other guys who play live. I am back to thinking a VH4S is a good amp for me. I really enjoyed that amp and it sounded quite good in the band setting. That blended with my Krinard 100 running dry in the center and the VH4S stereo on each side would be a sweet thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ihave27frets Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 Originally posted by Snider As I have said , the Herbert sounds great in a room by itself. It sounds great at low volumes. It sounds good in power trios.It will not cut it in live situations and if you don't believe me then ask Neil Schon or James Hetfield or Buckethead or Adam Jones or a bunch of other guys who play live. I am back to thinking a VH4S is a good amp for me. I really enjoyed that amp and it sounded quite good in the band setting. That blended with my Krinard 100 running dry in the center and the VH4S stereo on each side would be a sweet thing. What about the Herbert would you say isnt very good in a live setting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Peter Diezel Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 Originally posted by thegame Have I played a Diezel amp? I've bought, played, jammed with, recorded, and sold a Diezel amp for your information. Here's the deal; I'm not saying the Diezel chassis is particularly weak, I'm saying that when moderate force is applied to the middle of it (in the back) the chassis moves in and out a bit. Mine did, thats for {censored}ing sure. What does that have to do with the operation of the amp? Nothing! But here's the point; lets say you (or a roadie who doesn't give a {censored}) drops it and it lands on a hard surface of some sort, like stairs or the edge of a cabinet. That spot is going to dent and push the componets around inside! The point of bringing Mako and Wizard into the equation regarding build quality is that you'd have to pound on the chassis with a {censored}ing hammer to make the slightest indentation on the chassis of those amps. A friend of mine accidently dropped his Wizard down a 13 stair flight of stairs and that amp bounced 3 or 4 times on the way down and landed hard on concrete. The wooden headshell was damaged but the chassis was unscathed. Afterwords when plugged in the Wizard performed perfectly. Would a Diezel still work after being put through that? Maybe, maybe not, but I think the chances of a Diezel working perfectly after such an accident (or other blatant abuse) would be less than that of a Wizard or Mako. Nonsense !The Herbert chassis has a thickness of 2 millimeters.I have never seen this size on other amps.I had one that was fallen down from a stack and worked perfectly.Please stop telling bull{censored} !Thanks,Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Peter Diezel Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 Originally posted by Snider Well then I guess my bandmate is hearing this too as he has an Einstein and sold his Herbert as the Einstein killed it in the band setting.The Einstein is a better amp.The Einstein has a much fuller frequency range and is a bit more organic sounding but that said still not as good as the other stuff I have . The two -Two Rock amps I have are not Two Rocks, one is completely gutted by Bill from TR and the other was made from scratch. They are three channels with independent eq, Clean, Dumble (2nd channel) as well as a high gain Marshall style circuit for the high gain stuff(3rd Channel) which not one Two Rock ever made contains, not this circuit anyway. As far as Fuchs goes- a Zendrive pedal into any Fender is that that tone or close enough, lots of gain, rolled off highs with the proper mids is an easy emulation of the Fuchs. I have owned 5 fuchs including a 100 watt SLX modded amp so I am familiar with the tones. I can make either of my Krinards sound exactly like a fuchs but not vice versa. If the amps I have right now were not better than the Diezels, Mako CH100, VHTs and Two Rocks and Bogners and Fuchs etc, I would still have some of them but everything has been booted by the Suhr OD100SE with Whomp which is pretty damn cool, and the two Krinards which are amazing. I hope the Cauble shakes up the roost next. It is all subjective and I hope you like the Herbert but I can guarantee within a year you will not own it anymore because you have a good set of ears and are used to the HotCat and Z which share nothing with Herbie. As I have said , the Herbert sounds great in a room by itself. It sounds great at low volumes. It sounds good in power trios.It will not cut it in live situations and if you don't believe me then ask Neil Schon or James Hetfield or Buckethead or Adam Jones or a bunch of other guys who play live. I am back to thinking a VH4S is a good amp for me. I really enjoyed that amp and it sounded quite good in the band setting. That blended with my Krinard 100 running dry in the center and the VH4S stereo on each side would be a sweet thing. Hi Steve I hope You and Diezel are well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JamesPeters Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 Originally posted by Snider ...The Einstein is a better amp. ...It is all subjective ...I can guarantee within a year you will not own it anymore Anyone else see what's funny about this, or is it just me? The Herbert is a great amp. I won't argue preference, but it's one of the best high gain amps I've ever heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members No Soul Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 Originally posted by JimAnsell , i always have my piece of {censored} boogie mark IIC+ you poor poor manhere, send me your MKIIC+ and I will not only send you a recto, but a metalzone pedal so you dont have to feel left ouy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Peter Diezel Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 Originally posted by JamesPeters Anyone else see what's funny about this, or is it just me? The Herbert is a great amp. I won't argue preference, but it's one of the best high gain amps I've ever heard. Good Morning James Are You still awake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Duesentrieb Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 Was'n hier los? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cloudnine Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 How much does a Herbert/Einstein weigh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Duesentrieb Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 Herbert up to 30 kilos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Duesentrieb Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 Einstein is a feather compared to Herbie, btw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cloudnine Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 Originally posted by Duesentrieb Einstein is a feather compared to Herbie, btw Good, cause Herbert = more than 1/3 my weight Olaf, you need to rustle me up a used Einstein somehow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Duesentrieb Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 Rustle? Sorry, whats that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cloudnine Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 Rustle up = find Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JamesPeters Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 Originally posted by cloudnine Rustle up = find Procure, provide, etc. He said it as though they would in an old western movie with cowboys. Originally posted by Peter Diezel Good Morning James Are You still awake Good morning, Peter! It's only 2:25am here. I had a nap earlier, so I'm awake now. I'll be going to bed soon though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Duesentrieb Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 Oh yeah.I've found some for you. . . .http://www.diffusion-audio.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cloudnine Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 Originally posted by JamesPeters Good morning, Peter! It's only 2:25am here. I had a nap earlier, so I'm awake now. I'll be going to bed soon though. Sissy!You're as weak as the Diezel chassis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Duesentrieb Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 Originally posted by cloudnine Sissy! You're as weak as the Diezel chassis LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cloudnine Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 Originally posted by Duesentrieb Oh yeah. I've found some for you. . . . http://www.diffusion-audio.com/ I saw that place, very weird dealer. Seems to be online-only and with tax the 50w Einstein would be $4000 Canadian = $3700 US Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JamesPeters Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 Originally posted by cloudnine Sissy! You're as weak as the Diezel chassis Indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Peter Diezel Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 Originally posted by cloudnine I saw that place, very weird dealer. Seems to be online-only and with tax the 50w Einstein would be $4000 Canadian = $3700 US Hi Sean !Einstein 20 kgHerbert 28 kgGo to bed now !!! ........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Peter Diezel Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 Originally posted by JamesPeters Procure, provide, etc. He said it as though they would in an old western movie with cowboys. Good morning, Peter! It's only 2:25am here. I had a nap earlier, so I'm awake now. I'll be going to bed soon though. Take a beer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cloudnine Posted May 20, 2006 Members Share Posted May 20, 2006 Originally posted by Peter Diezel Hi Sean ! Einstein 20 kg Herbert 28 kg Go to bed now !!! ........... Peter, I am scouring the place for Diezel clips!!! NOW do you want me to go to bed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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