thegame

Originally posted by steve10358 I know for a fact that the Diezel is THICKER than any of the amps you've stated. S. No, that statement is just plain wrong.

Originally posted by maz_master Only saw pics and descriptions of the Mako and Herbert. Without knowing more detail regarding the mounting structure and thickness of the Herbert PCB (to support PCB-mounted power tubes), it's hard to compare the two. They can easily be equally hardy. Build quality is more than PTP layout and chassis-mounted tubes. For example, my first Shiva was built like a tank and generally used all of the techniques recognized as contributing to low failure rate in the field. However, the power tubes used extremely high plate voltages for EL34s/6L6s (around 520V) and were biased at near the max idle plate dissipation (Class AB should not run much beyond 60-70%). Yet, when I found other design problems in the amp (discussed below), Reinhold admitted to me that the hot bias and high voltage resulted in a lot of failures in the field. So, on future Shivas (one of which I owned), they reduced both (which also affected the tone, IMO). You can't see plate voltages and idle currents in a picture, so how can you compare that parameter? Another example of poor quality on the early Shivas was the low relay coil current-limiting resistor which resulted in burned out channel and boost switching relay coils. Can't see that in a picture either. Another example of poor quality on the early Shivas was the excessively low resistance of the current limiting resistors in series with the LEDs in the footswitch. They eventually caused the LEDs to burn out or become intermittent, thus opening the circuit and causing channel switching oscillation during gigs!!! This happened to me at two packed gigs! Bogner had no clue why this was happening. They initially denied it completely but after I spent the better part of a weekend finding that problem and offering them a circuit (which required simultaneous equations to solve) which properly sized the current limiting resistors for both the boost and gain LEDs, Reinhold called me at home, thanked me for finding the problem and then finally admitted they were seeing a lot of these failures in the field. First of all, the LEDs should not be in the switching path, but if they are, they should be properly limited for current! Bogner did neither. Can't see that kind of thing in a picture either. So, it's impossible to simply look at pics of the Herbert and Mako and predict which will be more reliable on the road! There's just too much else going on with component values and circuit architecture. An improperly sized resistor in a PTP MIL-SPEC layout will fail just as readily as one in a cheap PCB circuit! Yes, there are some general things to look for in a pic (like chassis-mounted power tubes, pots, switches, jacks, etc), but it only tells part of the story. But, knowing the reps of both Andrew and Peter, I'd bet my next paycheck that both products are equally road-worthy. Alright, I see what your saying about the Bogner. Would my past comments on Diezel build quality make more sense if I replaced the term "build quality" with "structural integrity?". Alot of the stuff you're talking about is circuit design issues. I was refering to the structural rigidity of the entire unit only, which again has nothing to do with sound or operational characteristics, but has everything to do with how much abuse the amp can take, which is important when the amp is tossed around alot.

Originally posted by steve10358 Chassis flex? Have you even PLAYED a diezel?? It's got thick ass aluminum w/ reinforced ends... not to mention the 1/4" of faceplate on both sides- there is ZERO chassis flex. And I am still waiting for what you didnt like about the build quality of the Diezel. You still havent given an example of a failure, or even a design flaw. Have I played a Diezel amp? I've bought, played, jammed with, recorded, and sold a Diezel amp for your information. Here's the deal; I'm not saying the Diezel chassis is particularly weak, I'm saying that when moderate force is applied to the middle of it (in the back) the chassis moves in and out a bit. Mine did, thats for {censored}ing sure. What does that have to do with the operation of the amp? Nothing! But here's the point; lets say you (or a roadie who doesn't give a {censored}) drops it and it lands on a hard surface of some sort, like stairs or the edge of a cabinet. That spot is going to dent and push the componets around inside! The point of bringing Mako and Wizard into the equation regarding build quality is that you'd have to pound on the chassis with a {censored}ing hammer to make the slightest indentation on the chassis of those amps. A friend of mine accidently dropped his Wizard down a 13 stair flight of stairs and that amp bounced 3 or 4 times on the way down and landed hard on concrete. The wooden headshell was damaged but the chassis was unscathed. Afterwords when plugged in the Wizard performed perfectly. Would a Diezel still work after being put through that? Maybe, maybe not, but I think the chances of a Diezel working perfectly after such an accident (or other blatant abuse) would be less than that of a Wizard or Mako.

Originally posted by Rufus Leaking I'm sure you'll love it... but just to give The Game some back up here, you really should look into Mako (who he was comparing Diezel to) and their build philosophy... no PCB mounted sockets here; http://www.makoamplification.com/about_philosophy.html Thank you. At the risk of offending the Diezel lovers out there again, I'll say the Herbert has GREAT build quality..... ....but if you examine the Mako philosophy you'll realize that Mako's quality is even GREATER! Honestly, I am begging the Diezel lovers to show me how that statement is slanderous to Diezel??? I don't get it?

Originally posted by maz_master You compared it to Mesa. Show me. Quote to your hearts content.

Originally posted by maz_master I haven't heard any pro players get good tone from a Recto. That amp has brainwashed a whole generation of young players into thinking good tone is gained out fuzzy mush. Hate the band, but Reb Beach from winger got a great Recto sound on the "Pull" CD. Also Chris Haskett (sp?) from Henry Rollins band had amazing tones from his Rack-ti-fiers. Check out Woodstock 94. His tone crushed Metallica's!!!

Originally posted by Snider Totally agree. The full frequency is not there. It took me three tries over more than a year and I was a huge advocate but in the end- no cut, little vibe. If the amp was as good or better than channel 3 of the VH4 you would see more pro's using them. The Herbert is a good amp and has some amazing features and I would go as far to say it is the most versatile bedroom amp ever made as that is what I think it's amazing at, but in a band setting the Einstein and even better Channel 3 of the VH4 are far beyond Herbie. Ch 3 in VH4-That is a great tone to me. I havn't even started to comment on the SOUND of the Herbert so far in this thread but I'll say I agree 100% with you on that.

Originally posted by Wizard of Ozz +1 That and downtuned to A flat 7 string numetal slop. They really can do much more. Curious; are all bands who tune down very low crap in your opinion? What about Nevermore or Cannibal Corpse? Like them or not, they both tune down super low (B flat) yet both bands have some of the tightest guitarists in metal EVER.

Originally posted by maz_master I'm pretty familiar with Mako. I had one on order a couple years ago and chatted with Andrew Solner quite a bit. HOWEVER, his build quality is outrageous! Absolutely impeccable and indestructible! So you ordered a Mako but ultimately never got one? Have you seen one in person then? From your description of the Mako, are you admitting the build quality of Mako is somewhat higher than Diezel?

Originally posted by maz_master Well, fair enough. Actually, I believe I initially jumped into this thread when people started bashing Diezel build quality without providing any concrete examples. God, I hope I don't plug into one now and not like it!!! Quote me where I "bashed" Diezel build quality....

I wonder if my avatar is inflamming people's emotions in this thread? I have to go now; I'll be back tommorrow. Good night everyone;)

Originally posted by [EB] Rob Hmm.. I owned a triple recto before switching to Diezel Herbert. I have to say that I'm very content with it. It adds something that I couldn't find in the recto.. I tried my Herbert on another cab, though. I compared the Diezel cab to a Bogner V30, and the Bogner won by a mile... You say you prefer the Herbert over the Recto, thats cool. Therefore you have something good to say about 1 particular Diezel product; again thats great. But landsakes, you actually prefer another brand over Diezel for your cabinet choice? Heresy! You heretic! I wonder when the Diezel police will lynch you for stating something that is incongruous with their own philosophies.

Originally posted by Electric Glide You are... the one and only! Sir P. D. I know from countless online testimonials and personal experience that Peter is a GREAT guy, but are you calling him Sir like he's royalty or something like that? Maybe you're letting the fact that since Peter is so cool and acomodating influence your perception of the amp itself? Not that Diezel amps don't deserve some praise in and of themselves, because they do, but do you see what I mean? By contrast, the maker of my favourite amps on the planet, Wizard, is not, to put it mildly - as easy to get along with as Peter, but that has absolutely no bearing on my opinion of the amp itself.

Originally posted by Peter Diezel Thanks But I assume, that thegame don

Originally posted by argonaut4 I should be getting it back soon. I ordered a MP awhile back, too. That should also be coming soon. Whats an MP???

Originally posted by argonaut4 :eek: :idea: I like me a Herbert and 2 sides of Mako. Hey is it almost Dorado time?

Originally posted by Digital Jams I believe he is saying that when he plugs a 1/4" jack into the back the chassis moves back and forth. Saying the metal is not very thick or sturdy. Point #1, yes it moves back and forth a bit. I wasn't applying excessive force either. You can make it bend a bit with your finger if you press right in the middle of the chassis on the back of the Herbert. Point #2, I didn't say its not very thick or sturdy, I implied its not AS thick or sturdy as Wizard, Rocca, or Mako. Geez, if I rated the Herbert a 9.9/10 overall I bet alot of you guys would bash me for not giving it a solid 10, right?

Originally posted by steve10358 So a few backyard techs made a half wit statement? These techs inspected the Diezel? Dougs work is great (he's one of 4 I'd take a marshall to), but his amps have a more basic layout and dont require some of the routing that Peters amp does. Thegame, you simply don't know what you are talking about. Why don't you "examine" a diezel YOURSELF, and state what isn't built well about it? S. So I can't compare the quality, construction-wise of two amps just because one is more complex? So lets say some budget company, like Digitech, Boss, whomever, comes out with a 4 channel MIDI, feature laden amp that was made with poor parts, had noise issues, etc. So this fictional amps comes out, everyone on HC deservingly bashes it, yet I can't say that a Wizard, Mako or Roccaforte is built better than it because these amps are of a simpler design? Before you confuse the issue, I'm not likening Diezel to a low budget company. I'm exagerrating the difference to illustrate my point easier. By your logic I would not be able to compare two very well made guitars (a Suhr - simple in design and features, classic Strat design) with a late 70's BC rich that has literally a dozen knobs and switches on it. They're both really good, but maybe one is built better than the other, irregardless of the features they have.

Originally posted by steve10358 What is your basis for this?? I dunno about you, but the PC board is thick, the solder is clean, the wires are routed super clean, and everything is beyond military grade. Dude, every cap in the thing is level to each other. There's a lot of attention to detail, not to mention the quality of the components inside. The weight doesn't come from the tolex and handle!! Look inside one before you start talking about the quality of an amp. S. Why are you so defensive? I said the Diezel's build quality is very good. My point is that there amps out there that are built even BETTER! Sound better?; thats subjective but I'm not talking about that. I'll modify my original commnents by adding another 'very' to the description, so IMO Diezel's are built very, very well (good). Happy? When I had a Diezel, I noticed the back of the chassis flexed when inserting a speaker cable with moderate force. Thats not military grade. Go to the Mako site and look up what military grade means (in relation to guitar amps). And yes I've looked inside one.

Originally posted by Peter Diezel Are You sure ? Thanks, Peter Yeah I'm sure, based on the observations of a few techs who've examined these amps when I've brought them over (minus the Roccaforte - no one on this board is going the doubt the superlative build quality of Doug's amps).

Originally posted by Jack Luminous None of the other brands you mentionned build 4-channel amps with a lot of switchable functions and midi interface... How can you say they have much better build quality when the products aren't even comparable ?? Mako is about to come out with such an amp (minus the midi). I'm not talking about versatility and features, I'm talking about overbuilt ruggedness only. Engl also build 4 channel MIDI amps with alot more switchable functions than a Diezel, yet their build quality is not as good as Diezel.

Originally posted by steve10358 and is built like a tank. S. Diezel build quality is very good, but I'd stop short of calling it exceptional. Some amps that have much better build quality include Wizard, Roccaforte and Mako. These are truley built like tanks.

Originally posted by Alex Flouros Add to that that DT is playing 3-4 hours per show and in all songs he barely finds room to breath between those lines... Alex Well that's not exactly true. They have so many long instrumental breaks in all the songs that there's lots of time to rest between vocal parts.

Originally posted by Alex Flouros In the interview h admited that in a show in Brazil i think on 1994-5 he destroyed his voice and could not speak for weeks...He also admits that up to this day he's trying to recover.. Alex What happened during that show? Bad monitors? I guess if you can't hear yourself one might blow out their voice. Just curious.

#1) By far Geddy Lee. No emotion, flat delivery, BORING! To me it sounds like he's talking half asleep when "singing", there's that little energy to it. Even when he was screeching in the 70s at least it sounded like he was trying. Runners up: Vince Neil, wimpy in the studio, far wimpier live! Most singers don't sound HIGHER pitched in concert! Billy Corgan: sounds like Beavis guy from Default & Staind: they sound interchangable. Mustaine live: I like his voice on CD, live he sounds like a crying baby literally. Dave Mathews & John Mayer: Trying sooooo hard to be sensitive. Mark Slaughter: makes Vince Neil sound like a death metal growler! All the little weiners from Simple Plan, Good Charlotte, etc. By now they're in their early-mids 20s yet still sound like they're 13 and havn't hit puberty. Both guys from Blink 182; Their voices aren't TOO bad, but they've got the stupidest vocal melodies I've ever heard. And they're all the same. Nickleback; OK this guy has a decent, strong voice but WHAT and HOW he's singing makes it sound bad because the music is so lame and calculated. Ashley Simpson: I can hear the digital pitch correction, chorus, etc in every sylable she utters. Anthony Keides (RHCP) live: He's OK in the studio but always off key live. European power metal vocalists whos last names are NOT Halford, Dickenson or Dio (ok Dio is American). Ozzy post 1985 or so: He hasn't sung an honest note since that time without backup singers and/or effects. You'd think after singing Paranoid 50000 times he wouldn't need a teleprompter anymore.