Would the average owner of a cheap guitar even appreciate a high quality instrument?

[Melodeous]

"Would the average owner of a cheap guitar even appreciate a high quality instrument?"

 

Probably as much as the average guitar would appreciate a cheap owner.

 

One thing I do have to say on this subject is from a finger picking perspective. I use all 5 fingers for plucking the strings. When I find a guitar that sounds as good at the 12th fret as it does at the 1st, with the same small effort imparted to the high E string by the little fingernail, that is rare and usually not found at GC. I still go there looking for it but so far no luck.

If I have to dig with one fingernail to accentuate a note to bring it in balance then that guitar makes me work. I look for one that gives me little effort across all the strings high into the upper register, and that upper register has to be worth playing at. I read a lot of stuff about no one playing there. I spend much of my time there. So, I have to have a guitar with a cut and great sound everywhere on the FB. No Martin I've played has yet to give me that. Same for Taylor, Guild, Gibson and the rest on down at GC. I'm not ruling them out yet. I've heard testimonials about small bodied Martins I haven't had the chance to play. I can't find one locally. But, for what I want, and found in a guitar, I had to ransom my first born. Now, I'm stuck there.

[MtlguitarJames]

I play my acoustic at least once a day. I didn't even own one until a year and a half ago. My father-in-law surprised me with it =). An Ovation 1777LX Legend.

 

I was used to playing on my friends $300 Ibanez. I could definitely tell a difference in tone, action, and it just felt sooooo right. I didn't really care for playing an acoustic all that much until I got a decent one as a gift. It really is hard to put it down =)

[slodge]

 

I've never spent a lot of time in guitar shops and have never done any market research, but I'm not so sure the vast majority of guitars sold are $300 and under. I'm not saying it may be "People that spend 1,000 or more buying an acoustic guitar are few in number. The actual percentage is very low.", I think of 10%. I think it would be safe to say, percentage-wise, the majority of guitars sold are sub-$400, but I'm not so sure it's greater than 50%. I believe the $400-$1000 range is a lot larger than most might think. .

 

 

I would imagine the numbers are skewed due to the fact that almost everyone who buys a $1000 + guitar has already bought a sub $300 at some point.

 

The inverse is not true.

[diceman1000]

People that spend 1,000 or more buying an acoustic guitar are few in number. The actual percentage is very low. Most acoustic guitars that are bought have a price tag of 300.00 or less. I always thought that most of these owners of cheap guitars would be blown away by more expensive guitars. I thought If they only had a chance to here a more quality instrument and the tone that comes from it, they would be just mesmerized by the sound & desire a more expensive instrument. Lately, I am wondering if that is true. I brought an acquaintance to a guitar store which had many high quality instruments. We ran across Goodalls, Huss & Daltons, Larrivees, Collings, etc. I thought he would love these instruments once he had a chance to hear them. His only guitar is a low priced Ibanez. It's the only one he has owned for over 10 years. To my chagrin, he wasn't impressed with most of the guitars. He said they sounded too much like pianos. In fact the higher priced we went, the less enamored he was with them. He truly didn't like the sound. He did like their appearance, though. Any thoughts on why? I have my own, but I would like to read other people's opinions. Abando

 

 

i have played a $3000 Taylor and it didn't sound as good as my $800 Cort to my ear...i think it's a psychcological thing personaly...

 

Damon

[fatback]

I was looking at sales figures on acoustic guitars for 2008. Guitar industry numbers. Most acoustic guitars that were bought in 2008 were in the 0-$300.00 range. Under 100.00 = 390,000 guitars sold 101.00 to 200.00 = 410,000 guitars sold 201.00 to 350.00 = 100,00 guitars sold 1,000 to over 1500.00 = 30,000 total guitars sold. Abando

 

 

I think I would be interested to see the figures for guitars between 350-1000

After all they are the ones most likey to hold comparison with a top knoch guitar.

 

Phil

[Chordchunker]

No real offense intended on my side, only some light-hearted teasing: I was self-taught, so I've pretty much done all the beginners' mistake you could think of. Probably still do many. It took me about 20 years of playing before I realized that I did not really know how to hold an acoustic guitar, or how to get the best out of a pick. I used to be the guy I described. To some extent I am probably still that guy if you ask me to check out and compare classical guitars without a pick. Or Dobros. Or... We all gotta start somewhere, don't we?

 

 

Did you disrespect nice guitars to hide your beginnerness?

[RogueGnome]

 

That is utterly hideous.

 

I know youall hate that guitar, so just pass it over here 'cause I kinda like it myself, and I figure it is the Lloyd Loar of 50 years from now.

[SteinbergerHack]

I feel there is sometimes something of self fulfilling prophecy in this. If someone knows that certain instruments exceed both their skill level and their budget, as well as their general interest level, they will often dismiss them with other rationalisations. "Not really my style","Not my kinda sound" "I look for something else in my guitar" etc

Very true. The same holds for really good electric stuff, as well. When I first got a Bogner, the clarity it had showed so many of the little roughnesses in my playing that I had to really go back and clean up my technique. The end result, though, was fantastic.

I think, though, that there are tremendous numbers of people that pick up a steel-string and just bang some chords. It is only a handful (relatively speaking) who ever actually reach the point of playing seriously, and thus it's only a few who would ever gain the skills to make use of a higher-end instrument. Couple that with the financial requirement and the desire to do so, and you get a pretty limited market.

[Kap'n]

Nice instruments aren't identical. Each one requires small adjustments to your technique to bring out their best. An experienced guitarist does this instinctively, and finds the instruments sweet spot. An inexperienced one may never find it.

[Pascal]

Did you disrespect nice guitars to hide your beginnerness?

I disrespected mediocre guitars with my beginnerness. 25 years later, I disrespect nice guitars with my mediocrity.

[Chordchunker]

I disrespected mediocre guitars with my beginnerness. 25 years later, I disrespect nice guitars with my mediocrity.

Well me too, but my ears have always been able to tell the difference between a good guitar and a mediocre one.

[jasonbmerrill]

Just like most anything, the price/performance ratio goes down significantly in the highest ranges.

 

got a 50 dollar guitar? It's a piece of crap, unplayable. Save for a little longer and get a 200-300 dollar guitar to be a great beginning guitar.

 

at this point the scale goes up for really good sounding/playing guitars, to about 1000 dollars.

 

A great guitar at a 600-1000 will make your 300 dollar guitar seem somewhat thin, harder to play, and cheaper. But it still wont be crap.

 

anything above that usually has very minor improvements, usually not worth the amount spent. If the guitar is only slightly better, but costs twice as much, and you are already in a range of 4 digits, whats the point, unless you really have money to spend?

[blue2blue]

 

People that spend 1,000 or more buying an acoustic guitar are few in number. The actual percentage is very low. Most acoustic guitars that are bought have a price tag of 300.00 or less. I always thought that most of these owners of cheap guitars would be blown away by more expensive guitars. I thought If they only had a chance to here a more quality instrument and the tone that comes from it, they would be just mesmerized by the sound & desire a more expensive instrument. Lately, I am wondering if that is true. I brought an acquaintance to a guitar store which had many high quality instruments. We ran across Goodalls, Huss & Daltons, Larrivees, Collings, etc. I thought he would love these instruments once he had a chance to hear them. His only guitar is a low priced Ibanez. It's the only one he has owned for over 10 years. To my chagrin, he wasn't impressed with most of the guitars. He said they sounded too much like pianos. In fact the higher priced we went, the less enamored he was with them. He truly didn't like the sound. He did like their appearance, though. Any thoughts on why? I have my own, but I would like to read other people's opinions. Abando

 

Seems to me that what people like in the sound and playability of guitars is all over the map?

 

Some people like a big, boomy, resonant sound. Some folks like a tight, clean sound. Some folks like a wide neck, some narrow, some deep, some shallow.

 

I don't know your pal but maybe he simple values different things than you.

 

Also, I haven't always seen all that direct a relationship between cost and quality. I've played some truly unimpressive expensive guitars. Again, some one else might like them, but I certainly wasn't all that impressed.

[guildfire]

Just like most anything, the price/performance ratio goes down significantly in the highest ranges. got a 50 dollar guitar? It's a piece of crap, unplayable. Save for a little longer and get a 200-300 dollar guitar to be a great beginning guitar. at this point the scale goes up for really good sounding/playing guitars, to about 1000 dollars. A great guitar at a 600-1000 will make your 300 dollar guitar seem somewhat thin, harder to play, and cheaper. But it still wont be crap. anything above that usually has very minor improvements, usually not worth the amount spent. If the guitar is only slightly better, but costs twice as much, and you are already in a range of 4 digits, whats the point, unless you really have money to spend?

 

 

Agree with this. The value per price curve gets pretty flat once you get over a certain price point. If you have the disposable money then go for it, but most can't hear any significant tone differences so they will stay within a reasonable price range to satisfy their needs IMO.

[sdelsolray]

I disagree in part. I don't think you have to be a very good player to tell the difference between a cheap guitar and an expensive guitar.

 

 

That certainly can be true. I think it mostly depends on the ability of a particular player (at whatever level of playing) to hear things. Of course, many guitar players are true beginners and are unlikely to tell any meaningful difference based on listening to their own playing.

[Terry Allan Hall]

Are you kidding? All those overpriced guitars sound too much like them already.

Besides, grabbing your ruck-sack in one hand and your Steinway baby grand in the other to go "travelin' on the cheap" can give ya a friggin' hernia!

[Pascal]

Well me too, but my ears have always been able to tell the difference between a good guitar and a mediocre one.

I think I'm still learning.

My most recent experience: getting into gypsy jazz guitars. A different type of guitars, requiring a specific right-hand technique to sound their best. When I started investigating them and playing them in shops, I did not know this and played them the same way I played my other acoustics: hand anchored on the bridge, light pick stroke. That's pretty much testing a guitar over 20% of its capacity, and not within the dynamic range where it's supposed to be played. I also wasn't really familiar with the tone of gypsy jazz guitars, and tended to be attracted to the ones who sounded the least typical. Of course, it's in big part a matter of taste, but not only. The strong attack, the relatively short sustain, the nasal, mid-rangey tone of Selmer copies might be an acquired taste, but it is also what makes them work so well in a band setting.

I learned this by playing quite a few guitars in shops, buying one, playing it in various contexts for a couple of years, getting frustrated with it, etc... I now have another one that I love... until I know better/play better/hear better?

[Gary Palmer]

IMHO most people (Players and non-players) can recognise the differences between low and high end instruments in terms of tone and build qualities, but not everyone can justify paying high figures or price brackets.

Beginners tend to start with a lower budget and buy accordingly, while progressing at varying rates. Some feel the need for high end gear and buy to suit their needs, while others don't or won't.

Ownership of a high end instrument doesn't necessarily imbue a beginner with a miraculous possession of (Name you favourite guitarist here) qualities and a guitar that's set-up like a dog won't be guaranteed to sound or play better than a budget piece with a decent set-up.

It's often a case of buying what you can justifiably afford and basing opinions or conveying impressions based upon experience. Everyone has their own preferences and sets of circumstances that influence buying decisions.

Clothes don't make the man..........

[Mid Life Crisis]

Besides, grabbing your ruck-sack in one hand and your Steinway baby grand in the other to go "travelin' on the cheap" can give ya a friggin' hernia!

Despite her looks, she's never going to get a lift sitting on the wrong side of the road there!

[Hudman]

IMHO most people (Players and non-players) can recognise the differences between low and high end instruments in terms of tone and build qualities, but not everyone can justify paying high figures or price brackets. Beginners tend to start with a lower budget and buy accordingly, while progressing at varying rates. Some feel the need for high end gear and buy to suit their needs, while others don't or won't. Ownership of a high end instrument doesn't necessarily imbue a beginner with a miraculous possession of (Name you favourite guitarist here) qualities and a guitar that's set-up like a dog won't be guaranteed to sound or play better than a budget piece with a decent set-up. It's often a case of buying what you can justifiably afford and basing opinions or conveying impressions based upon experience. Everyone has their own preferences and sets of circumstances that influence buying decisions. Clothes don't make the man..........

 

It's no surprise to me that I agree with you 100%.

 

 

Well said.

[Zoomone]

And, BTW, have you ever smelled a cheap used all-hog Martin 000-15S?

Yep. But the best is the delicious cigar-box aroma you get from sticking your nose in the soundhole of my lil' Tacoma Papoose. Mmmm!

About 12 years ago, when I was buying my second acoustic (my first 'I'm-serious-about-playing-this-thing guitar') I opted for a Simon & Patrick dread.

[rhythmguitar28]

 

A great guitar at a 600-1000 will make your 300 dollar guitar seem somewhat thin, harder to play, and cheaper. But it still wont be crap. anything above that usually has very minor improvements , usually not worth the amount spent. If the guitar is only slightly better, but costs twice as much, and you are already in a range of 4 digits, whats the point, unless you really have money to spend?

 

 

 

I have a feeling that there are some exceptions to the rule here though, just as there are some $500 to $1000 guitars that completely blow away a lot of others.

 

I don't own 1 at this point but I can almost guarantee there are certain $3000 and up guitars that would make me want to sell some or all of the sub $1K's I own due to the differences in quality and tone. I try to avoid playing any but I'm sure they are out there.

[Melodeous]

Seems to me that what people like in the sound and playability of guitars is all over the map? Some people like a big, boomy, resonant sound. Some folks like a tight, clean sound. Some folks like a wide neck, some narrow, some deep, some shallow. I don't know your pal but maybe he simple values different things than you. Also, I haven't always seen all that direct a relationship between cost and quality. I've played some truly unimpressive expensive guitars. Again, some one else might like them, but I certainly wasn't all that impressed.

 

 

Without a doubt, and style-for-style, I believe this is the truth of it. To this end guitars are voiced by private luthiers to suit various genres and known styles. You can get pretty much anything you're after. If you want a quick decay you can find it. If you want sustain 'til tomorrow you can find that as well. But, both are carefully crafted to give good projection, tone and intonation. This typically isn't found in most mass produced guitars. They are usually fine for folks playing near the nut but begin to thin out significantly in the upper registers. Can the mass-producers compete at the boutique builder level? I think Martin and Taylor can with custom orders. I also think by the time a custom spec is in hand from them it will cost about the same as from a private luthier. So, it's apples and apples at that level but certainly not found hanging on the walls at GC or Sam Ash where both companies (and others) amass their public reputations for quality. So, in reality, most of these threads are discussions between new-to-average players comparing store-front merchandise to the craftsmanship of private luthiers. It's a debate that asks for legitimacy but fails at the outset. In this particular thread, however, I've seen for the first time the discussion fairly weighted against player skills and knowledge as one of the variables. This alone prevents, or tempers, collective judgements. This thread has taken on the discussion quite nicely.

 

More to your point, if you don't like a high-end guitar because of it's quick decay and extreme fundamental you're probably not a bluesman and the guitar has (read: suffers) an immediate loss in appeal. A bluesman might have a different opinion of the guitar. I've also played high-end guitars that left me cold but I just pass it off to right hands, wrong guitar.

[leftync]

If I didn't believe I could tell the difference in sound, tht Sleepless Sailor video posted earlier just jumped out from my normally dull Macbook speakers. That sounded really, really good.
I'm a mediocre player at best, but I can hear a difference and certainly feel a difference when I play a nice guitar. I say 'nice' rather than expensive b/e so many of us have learned that good doesn't always mean costly. If you buy used, great older instruments that don't have the collector value of a Martin or Gibson, etc., you'll still spend a fair amount, but not necessarily a fortune. I play a 15-year old Larrivee that--unless I planned to sell--I wouldn't trade for any D-28 or J-45 I've ever heard. That doesn't mean I don't like Martins (very much) or Gibsons (occasionally), or that you should prefer Larrivee. And since so many of us hear guitars we don't own, we have to account for variables like strings, setup, etc. Of course, being a fan of Martins, I would have no interest, other than financial, in that commemorative monstrosity shown here in pictures. Never figured out how that could possibly represent the characteristically understated beauty of a Martin guitar. I'd play her--but I'd have to put a bag over my head.
I believe I can feel and hear the difference between a $100-300 guitar and one costing $1,500-$4,000. Could I tell the difference between a $4K collings and a $12,000 Martin or custom? I don't know. I think my point of diminishing returns is somewhere in the low four-figure range.
This is such a gear-head question. Wish I was as good at playing guitars as I am (I think) talking about them.

[Hudman]

 

I have a feeling that there are some exceptions to the rule here though, just as there are some $500 to $1000 guitars that completely blow away a lot of others. I don't own 1 at this point but I can almost guarantee there are certain $3000 and up guitars that would make me want to sell some or all of the sub $1K's I own due to the differences in quality and tone. I try to avoid playing any but I'm sure they are out there.

 

 

I agree.

 

I honestly believe that you see an increase in quality as you enter the $2500+ range.

 

There are a ton of imports in the $300 - $800 range that compete well with $1000 - $2000 guitars.

 

The main difference tends to be the cost of labor and not the quality of the tone woods or craftsmanship.