Members coyote-1 Posted July 10, 2009 Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 Sometimes yes, sometimes no. And there is *always* the issue of diminishing returns.So this experience makes me question myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members riffmeister Posted July 10, 2009 Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 Very powerful example.Would you say this is true with all (or most?) expensive guitars? I would say it's true that if a guitar has a lot to give, a more experienced player will find the boundaries more easily than a less experienced player. On the other hand, some high end guitars are more of a "one trick pony" that players of many skill levels will enjoy. It really depends on the guitar. Regarding the objective qualities.....materials, fit & finish.....one certainly hopes that a higher priced instrument has these going for it. Fortunately, these qualities are more easily discerned than the sonic qualities which tend to be more nuanced and subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Galabar Posted July 10, 2009 Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 It's an original......and pretty straighforward. One of these days I will get around to putting pen to paper. (quaint phrase, eh?) I noticed that it was an original. I'll wait patiently, ..., is it done yet? How about now? No? Now? How about now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted July 10, 2009 Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 I've been playing 30 years or so (give or take, since I quit every few years) but have only really started to get good enough to where I can definitely say that the answer to the question at hand is "yes." I've played cheap guitars my whole life and have for the most part unknowingly worked around their shortcomings, but having tried a few over several thousand I now see that the best guitars are the ones that are made with great attention to detail and hand workmanship. I only wish I could afford my ideal guitar - or even be able to afford one that was built to my specs. Someday, soon I hope. I've had a couple of tempting offers come my way but money, time and having an ideal environment for keeping such an investment are the three biggest issues keeping me from realizing that dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members riffmeister Posted July 10, 2009 Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 I noticed that it was an original. I'll wait patiently, ..., is it done yet? How about now? No? Now? How about now? Here are the chord shapes:3X0033X20032X32010X0241X2X02XXrepeat 3 more times3X0230X022103X0230X02210X3201XXX0232back to beginning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Galabar Posted July 10, 2009 Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 Here are the chord shapes: 3X0033 X20032 X32010 X0241X 2X02XX repeat 3 more times 3X0230 X02210 3X0230 X02210 X3201X XX0232 back to beginning Thanks I'll give that a try. However, I'm hopeless unless there is a piece of sheet music sitting in front of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willyguitar Posted July 10, 2009 Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 Maybe they don`t send the "good" Martins to the UK.. I'm pretty sure I got a good Martin recently. It is a new run series 1, 2009. However, there were some other Martins that I didn't think were worth the dosh. I have never tried a Crafter, because they don't seem to sell any around my parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Melodeous Posted July 10, 2009 Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 Melodeous, I respect your opinions very much. But I have to respectfully disagree with your assertion that mediocre players will never be able to tell why an expensive Martin is really better than, say, a $800 Yamaha.We all know that the sound/tone will be subjective to every ear, but your statement borders on the uppity, no disrespect intended.I've seen/heard you play (VOMs) and you are better than me. I've also gathered from your posts that you are a very intelligent, thoughtful (as well as thought provoking) and wise man. That's why I was surprised at what I read.Then again, maybe I misunderstood your point, but that's how it came across to me. That's fine, rhancox. You'll have to live with your perception. There are things I know and things I don't know. You won't find me here giving advice on things I know nothing of. I wish I could detect that trait on the balance of the forum members here but it seems not. I make no apologies for my views on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members revive Posted July 10, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 Melodeous and riffmeister sound convincing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SoloArtist Posted July 11, 2009 Members Share Posted July 11, 2009 I'm pretty sure I got a good Martin recently. It is a new run series 1, 2009. However, there were some other Martins that I didn't think were worth the dosh. I have never tried a Crafter, because they don't seem to sell any around my parts. My Martin D-16 is from 2007 and the D-18 is from their 175th Anniversary year, 2008. They were hand picked for me by artist relations. I never played them until they arrived at my studio. I have also played some Martins off the floor at a few music stores and at the Martin Guitar Museum's Pickin' Parlor. These were all different price ranges. They all had that "Martin" sound but I'll have to admit, some were sweeter, boomed more, etc. The 1 Series is a reissue and has been hugely successful for Martin, selling out in a matter of months. At $999.90 street, it is very affordable. I just don't buy into the yarn that a Chinese guitar is "just as good". Check back after a few years to see if it's still in one piece. My Chinese import didn't even get me through college. A waste of money. Better still, see if you will get more for it at resale. Martins, Gibsons and Fenders have traditionally appreciated over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guildfire Posted July 11, 2009 Members Share Posted July 11, 2009 As i said before cost does not always equal tone, so these arguments are fruitless. Every guitar is different and what it is worth to you is a personal decision based on many factors - skill only being one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jamesp Posted July 11, 2009 Members Share Posted July 11, 2009 Melodeous and riffmeister sound convincing to me. I'm more in the proximity (as opposed to proficiency) camp, tho' it's far from an either/or thing, imo. Fullmoose said it best a few pages back. (btw, Welcome Fullmoose!) It's hard to know how nice an instrument is until you've lived with it awhile. It's something like, and I think some part of, the "it sounded better at the shoppe" phenom. The unexamined aspect in all this talk is the custom guitar. Once you're talking $3k and upwards you're into a price range where you could get a guitar made to order. That's worth quite a bit, IME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sdelsolray Posted July 11, 2009 Members Share Posted July 11, 2009 How about you guys... do you think expensive guitars are really worth the money? Leaving price aside for the moment, I owns guitars that sound good, play well, and have good materials and construction. The guitars I have are "keepers" in my book and I've chosen them through many many years after owning or trying many many guitars. The brands I own are Tippin, Collings, Goodall, Lowden and Webber. As to price, they are all expensive, between $3k and $6k each. For my uses, these are about as good as it gets. Yes, expensive guitars are worth the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted July 11, 2009 Members Share Posted July 11, 2009 You're completely off the mark. A guitar has the same capability no matter who in the world is playing it. A person's opinion on an expensive guitar has little to nothing to do with their skill level. There are highly skilled guitar players who do not play super expensive guitars. There are also extremely unskilled players who are willing to spend the money on an expensive guitar. BE REAL. All guitars have unlimited capabilities in actuality and different guitars sound better to different people. People are willing to spend a certain amount of money on a guitar depending on a myriad of variables including aesthetics, future value, financial amount, sound, feel, playability, body type, etc. All of these variables are based either on a person's situation in life or their personal opinion. Skill does not factor into a person's decision as whether a guitar is worth a certain price. If a three chord wonder has the money and likes the idea of having a custom guitar from a well respected luthier he might buy the guitar if the guitar is worth the price in his opinion. If theres a master classical player who is unwilling to go for a super high-end guitar because of financial strain the guitar would simply not be worth it to him. Opinions on expensive guitars are not based on skill in the least. Sorry - disagree. If a person is a beginner they're going to make pretty much the same sound with a $500 guitar that they are with a $2000 guitar. THAT'S why so many people come up with the "my $200 xxxxx brand sounded almost as good as the $4000 Froggy Bottom" line. And they're right. It takes skill to extract the potential out of a guitar and great ones have more potential. I am real BTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meandthecity Posted July 11, 2009 Members Share Posted July 11, 2009 I agree with alot of what is being said. But most of all GC is not a place to rate guitars like said before they do not take care of their guitars and believe it or not strings play a big part in guitar sound imo. I have went through 4 sets of strings on my dr500m to find the ones I feel bring it to life the best. You can get playability from GC but it is hard to judge the tone and volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members seagullplayer77 Posted July 11, 2009 Members Share Posted July 11, 2009 Them is fightin' words, my friend :poke:. Threads like this can get nasty, so I'm just warning you... Did I call it, or what ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Existentialist Posted July 11, 2009 Members Share Posted July 11, 2009 I agree with alot of what is being said. But most of all GC is not a place to rate guitars like said before they do not take care of their guitars and believe it or not strings play a big part in guitar sound imo. I have went through 4 sets of strings on my dr500m to find the ones I feel bring it to life the best. You can get playability from GC but it is hard to judge the tone and volume. That, and I don't know how GC is elsewhere, but the one I was at 2 days ago had the acoustic room occupied by a family of 6-7 people screaming at each other in spanish, with the teenage son playing 20 second bursts of metallica on one of those acoustic Dean Vs, baby crying, etc. I just imagined doing a blindfolded tone session there and it made me laugh out loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gitnoob Posted July 11, 2009 Members Share Posted July 11, 2009 That, and I don't know how GC is elsewhere, but the one I was at 2 days ago had the acoustic room occupied by a family of 6-7 people screaming at each other in spanish, with the teenage son playing 20 second bursts of metallica on one of those acoustic Dean Vs, baby crying, etc. I just imagined doing a blindfolded tone session there and it made me laugh out loud.I had a similar experience at a small mom & pop music store. I'm convinced the only way to buy a guitar is to buy it online, and try it at home. If you don't fall in love with the sound and feel, send it back or sell it.As far as expensive guitars go, I recently sold a $4000 Martin to somebody. It was a 60's Brazilian nylon model that did absolutely nothing for me, but the new owner loves it. We're both happy now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members plurabelle Posted July 11, 2009 Members Share Posted July 11, 2009 Someone mentioned resale value, and im surprised that hasn't been mentioned more in this thread. I love crafters, I friggin love taylors. I don't think they are as comparable as some people swear they are. Aaaaaaaaaaaand to stay on topic, your $800 crafter is gonna be worth peanuts if you ever decide to sell or trade it. Your big name guitar (martin, taylor, etc) will hold up in value rather well. That has got to play a factor in wether or not an expensive guitar is worth the dough. I was in a professional band for 6yrs. I bought a gibson les paul, explorer, and firebird for live duty. Sold em all when I quit the band and actually profited on the sales. They were all expensive guitars, I fail to see how it wasn't worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C70man Posted July 11, 2009 Members Share Posted July 11, 2009 After hearing and playing my friends 60's "relatively cheap" Gibson LG3 with a wood saddle and beat to hell body, with added framing to support a busted neck and cracks in the top over 1/2" wide I have come to the conclusion that any well "designed" guitar can sound phenominal, with the player having MORE to do with it than the guitar.This guitar was ressurected from a literal junk heap and turned into an incredible sounding guitar. I admit it sounds much better amplified than not, but if you are looking for an instrument to perform with, this is it. There are shims in the neck, blocking under the top, a complete refret job and changed spacing on the nut. I see these guitars for sale beat to {censored} from time to time for a lot less than new guitars. I may be looking for one for myself real soon..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C70man Posted July 11, 2009 Members Share Posted July 11, 2009 Here's an LG2 that is a reissue, done to spec...asking price is $1570. http://www.12fret.com/used/GibsonL2Anniversary57of100.jpg Here's a beauty....don't know what it sounds like, but to look at it....does it really matter? Asking price $2,000http://www.buffalobrosguitars.com/images22000-22999/ugb22071-gibsonlc1cascade/index.html And here's a resored '63 LG1.....asking price $1995http://www.chicagomusicexchange.com/gibson-vintage-used-lg-1/1-2,3-2,i-72961/# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members revive Posted July 13, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2009 Before this Thread is forgotten, I just want to thank everyone for such a great discussion... so THANKS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Melodeous Posted July 13, 2009 Members Share Posted July 13, 2009 Before this Thread is forgotten, I just want to thank everyone for such a great discussion... so THANKS!!! You're welcome...rassafrassa rik rastardwy. I do believe, however, I will refrain from further inquiries on this topic, grab a couple Yeungling Black&Tans and sit back and watch. Crackers and cheese might be involved as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members revive Posted July 14, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 ...rassafrassa rik rastardwyAre you cursing in some kind of Nordic language? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hudman Posted July 14, 2009 Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 I went to a local music shop yesterday, and tried out some really nice (and relatively inexpensive) guitars, such as Guild and Yamaha L-series. They are all in the $500-$700 and sound really really nice. The Guilds were all-solids. Needless to say, I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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