Taylor Swift CAN'T SING!

[Hudman]

 

Grumpy, "co-writer" means that she maybe contributed an idea or one line to a song, it doesn't mean she actually sat down and figured out lyrics, melody, etc. Taylor Swift has written a few songs in her life, but if you see anything where she is listed as "co-writer" rather than sole writer, you can figure she didn't write much of it. Which is okay, few country music artists write the majority of their songs, but claiming to be a great songwriter who writes all her songs when actually other people are writing the majority of her songs is... what's that word again?

 

 

and you know this, how?

[Badtux]

It's how it's done in Nashville, Hud. Just the way it's done. Very, very few of the top Nashville artists write more than a few of their own songs. Most are pretty open about it -- it's no secret, for example, that Tim McGraw's "Southern Voice" was written by Bob DiPiero and Tom Douglas. Others hide it and represent that they're the principal songwriter for all their songs, even though it's an open secret in the industry that their "co-writers" are the ones doing all the real work, but their PR is based around them being "singer-songwriters" so they do what they do to project the correct image for what they're being marketed as. In some cases the actual writers aren't even credited -- though that's more common for pop/rock acts where covering someone else's song is seen as "lame" (thinking of a slick pop-punk band here in particular that supposedly writes their own songs, for a definition of "writes" that consists of their label's songwriters taking the raw ideas of the youngsters and refining them into the pop/punk framework that is the band's "sound"). Country music tends to be a little more honest there and at least gives co-writer credit to the people who actually write the songs.

Granted, there are certainly exceptions -- Dolly Parton being the rare one who both wrote most of the songs on her early albums AND performed them -- but they're very much the exception. If Taylor Swift wrote more than the title of the six songs she's credited with "co-writing" on Fearless, I'd be greatly surprised. It's *hard* to write a good song, much less thirteen of them in six months after a year and a half of non-stop touring supporting the previous album, and any artist who wants to stay on top is going to end up doing what everybody else does, which is pull in the best songwriters in the country music world to come up with some great songs. Just how it works, and at least in country music generally the real songwriter gets some writing credit.

[Tartanlad]

Even if she wrote every song she just should not be singing them as simply she cannot sing

[Scodiddly]

Bottom line on the songwriting thing is that we'll probably never know. Some people just do have the knack for it, and it could be true.

 

But if she's got a songwriting credit, she (or maybe her parents) will be set for life. That's where the lifetime money is, not in the performing end of things.

[Hudman]

 

It's how it's done in Nashville, Hud. Just the way it's done. Very, very few of the top Nashville artists write more than a few of their own songs. Most are pretty open about it -- it's no secret, for example, that Tim McGraw's "Southern Voice" was written by Bob DiPiero and Tom Douglas. Others hide it and represent that they're the principal songwriter for all their songs, even though it's an open secret in the industry that their "co-writers" are the ones doing all the real work, but their PR is based around them being "singer-songwriters" so they do what they do to project the correct image for what they're being marketed as. In some cases the actual writers aren't even credited -- though that's more common for pop/rock acts where covering someone else's song is seen as "lame" (thinking of a slick pop-punk band here in particular that supposedly writes their own songs, for a definition of "writes" that consists of their label's songwriters taking the raw ideas of the youngsters and refining them into the pop/punk framework that is the band's "sound"). Country music tends to be a little more honest there and at least gives co-writer credit to the people who actually write the songs. Granted, there are certainly exceptions -- Dolly Parton being the rare one who both wrote most of the songs on her early albums AND performed them -- but they're very much the exception. If Taylor Swift wrote more than the title of the six songs she's credited with "co-writing" on Fearless, I'd be greatly surprised. It's *hard* to write a good song, much less thirteen of them in six months after a year and a half of non-stop touring supporting the previous album, and any artist who wants to stay on top is going to end up doing what everybody else does, which is pull in the best songwriters in the country music world to come up with some great songs. Just how it works, and at least in country music generally the real songwriter gets some writing credit.

 

 

Actually, it works that way everywhere and not just in Nashville.

 

She started off as a songwriter in Nashville at age 14.

 

Nice theory on your part, unfortunately it's not based on facts.

 

When Swift was 15, she rejected RCA Records because the company wanted to keep her on a development deal.[25] Swift then performed at Nashville's songwriters' venue, The Bluebird Caf

[orangesix]

who gives a {censored}. she's hot.

[orangesix]

 

 

maybe if they looked like Taylor Swift

[kwakatak]

maybe if they looked like Taylor Swift

Nah - TS has bad posture too. Didn't you see that other thread?

Personally I have no opinion on her. She's way too young for my demographic so her songs are vacuous and trite to my jaded ear and as such I only see her as somebody else's kid who's basically just looking to speak for her generation. Nothing wrong with that. Kurt Cobain did it for mine but he checked out way too early.

[Hudman]

Nah - TS has bad posture too. Didn't you see that other thread? Personally I have no opinion on her. She's way too young for my demographic so her songs are vacuous and trite to my jaded ear and as such I only see her as somebody else's kid who's basically just looking to speak for her generation. Nothing wrong with that. Kurt Cobain did it for mine but he checked out way too early.

 

I feel the same way.

 

I just find it hypocritical to write someone off as having no talent when you know next to nothing about them.

 

I liked Kurt Cobain's music, but I remember listening to guitar players knock him for being a hack player and a bad singer.

 

Of course, they were wrong and liars......

[poppytater]

She seems happy, she seems to make others happy, that's about as good as it gets.

[guildfire]

I don't know her, never listened to her and don't care to.

Nothing against her at all. If she is commercially successful more power to her. She doesn't need my approval in any event.

I like listening to Patsy Cline, Emmylou, Dolly, Carlene Carter for my County female singers.

As far as songwriting I don't really give a rats ass who writes a song as long as its good.

Why spend negative energy on this?

[Tartanlad]

Hi kwakatak, Well they were all good, but i liked the young
lass in "Alex Roth"

she was very good at the singing "Blue Bayou" and certainly has got what it takes i reckon
She has a nice strong voice with the right tones for one so young
and with even more experience she can make it for sure
with the right guidance and help along the way so she gets a fae me
for sure

[Tony Burns]

makes you wonder how she won that idle contest -probably fixed by some record company that though shes cute , and someone they could do constant voice overs to fill in the sour notes .shes not the only Nashville talent who cant sing - ever hear Faith Hill live , she misses every other note as well --

[Guitar Hack]

Taylor Swift can't sing? Well apparently she can. Grammy's ain't perfect but she can either sing or has other talents.

[chriscarnucci]

That's also a fair question. I was just making the point that the fact I'm not a professional musician, or even a very talented amateur one, shouldn't preclude me from commenting on the shortcomings of someone who gets paid a lot of money as a musician. Maybe that's almost too obvious a point, and I'm guessing it was already covered somewhere in the prior 33 or whatever pages of comments. No, I'm not interested in tearing someone down. But I don't think making the point that one of the top singers in popular music doesn't have pro-level singing chops is tearing her down. Maybe after 20 pages of comments it is, but initially it's just an observation someone made.

You are right...I shouldnt have directed it at you, but at the whole silly thread..I apologize

[Hudman]

 

makes you wonder how she won that idle contest -probably fixed by some record company that though shes cute , and someone they could do constant voice overs to fill in the sour notes .shes not the only Nashville talent who cant sing - ever hear Faith Hill live , she misses every other note as well --

 

 

I seen Faith Hill live.

 

She can sing with the best of them.

[TN.Frank]

I seen Faith Hill live. She can sing with the best of them.

 

 

I was going to say, everytime I've heard her sing live she hit her notes and sounded fine to me.

[Joseph Hanna]

ever hear Faith Hill live , she misses every other note as well --

 

 

I'm speechless.

[Buck62]

It's how it's done in Nashville, Hud. Just the way it's done. Very, very few of the top Nashville artists write more than a few of their own songs. Most are pretty open about it -- it's no secret, for example, that Tim McGraw's "Southern Voice" was written by Bob DiPiero and Tom Douglas. Others hide it and represent that they're the principal songwriter for all their songs, even though it's an open secret in the industry that their "co-writers" are the ones doing all the real work, but their PR is based around them being "singer-songwriters" so they do what they do to project the correct image for what they're being marketed as. In some cases the actual writers aren't even credited -- though that's more common for pop/rock acts where covering someone else's song is seen as "lame" (thinking of a slick pop-punk band here in particular that supposedly writes their own songs, for a definition of "writes" that consists of their label's songwriters taking the raw ideas of the youngsters and refining them into the pop/punk framework that is the band's "sound"). Country music tends to be a little more honest there and at least gives co-writer credit to the people who actually write the songs. Granted, there are certainly exceptions -- Dolly Parton being the rare one who both wrote most of the songs on her early albums AND performed them -- but they're very much the exception. If Taylor Swift wrote more than the title of the six songs she's credited with "co-writing" on Fearless, I'd be greatly surprised. It's *hard* to write a good song, much less thirteen of them in six months after a year and a half of non-stop touring supporting the previous album, and any artist who wants to stay on top is going to end up doing what everybody else does, which is pull in the best songwriters in the country music world to come up with some great songs. Just how it works, and at least in country music generally the real songwriter gets some writing credit.

 

 

 

100% spot on.

 

I've been to Nashville and played at the Broken Spoke and the Bluebird Cafe. I've written, co-written and copywritten dozens of songs. I've had publishing offers to catalogue some of mine and my partner's songs. On one song in particular, we got an offer to publish our song and have it personally pitched with Country music great (and now deceased) Harlan Howard. But there was a catch.... the guy who made the offer wanted to change one line in our song and he wanted 90% writer's credit and 100% of the statuatory mechanical royalties. So basically, we would have got 10% of the publishing rights to the song we wrote and would have to give all the big profits to the guy (who I can't name for legal reasons) who made the offer.

 

This is how Nashville works. This man had the nerve to tell us... "10% of something is better than 100% of nothing, and at least you'll get your foot in the door." We chose "nothing", because we couldn't bear to give away something that we wrote so that somebody else can get the credit and the money. Nashville is brutal and has literally broken thousands, if not millions of dreams of many truly talanted people.

 

What Badtux has said isn't just true, it's the accepted norm in Nashville. It used to be all about true talent, but now it's all about what will sell to the masses, regardless of talent level. The people who make Nashville go are the "tunesmiths" who write the songs that are pitched by the hundreds every day on Music Row. Some are well-known, most are completely anonymous to the masses. But all those good times, bad times, bar fights, lost loves, Americana observations and all the other content of your average Country song don't belong to the artist who sings the songs... these are the experiences of the poor slobs who pen dozens of songs a week and have then repeatedly pitched and re-tweaked until somebody decides that the song is perfect for a particular artist they have in mind.

 

Consider yourself educated to some of the harsh realties of Nashville.

[gthom]

You are right...I shouldnt have directed it at you, but at the whole silly thread..I apologize

No need to apologize, I didn't see anything to take offense to in what you said. In the end, like you say, it's not really worth the energy to worry too much about all this.

[kujozilla]

Everytime someone posts in this thread a kitten dies.... crap... I am such a jackass.

[TN.Frank]

Yep, Nashville is a "meat grinder" that'll tear people apart and spit em' out if they're not tough enough to hang in there. There are a lot of very tallented people in and around Nashville that are trying to "make it" but will never do it because the "Music Business" and Music Row just doesn't like "this" or "that" about em'. Travis Tritt had a hell of a time because of his long hair. He just didn't fit the "Music Row Image" so they did all they could to keep him down but eventualy his tallent came thru and there was nothing they could do about it.
Same story for many others. There's an Image that you have to have, you don't have to sing well or even write songs, that'll all be taken care of for you as long as you Look The Part.
Sad to say but the days of people like Lortta Lynn and Dolly Parton going to Nashville and making it are long gone.

[Hudman]

 

100% spot on. I've been to Nashville and played at the Broken Spoke and the Bluebird Cafe. I've written, co-written and copywritten dozens of songs. I've had publishing offers to catalogue some of mine and my partner's songs. On one song in particular, we got an offer to publish our song and have it personally pitched with Country music great (and now deceased) Harlan Howard. But there was a catch.... the guy who made the offer wanted to change one line in our song and he wanted 90% writer's credit and 100% of the statuatory mechanical royalties. So basically, we would have got 10% of the publishing rights to the song we wrote and would have to give all the big profits to the guy (who I can't name for legal reasons) who made the offer. This is how Nashville works. This man had the nerve to tell us... "10% of something is better than 100% of nothing, and at least you'll get your foot in the door." We chose "nothing", because we couldn't bear to give away something that we wrote so that somebody else can get the credit and the money. Nashville is brutal and has literally broken thousands, if not millions of dreams of many truly talanted people. What Badtux has said isn't just true, it's the accepted norm in Nashville. It used to be all about true talent, but now it's all about what will sell to the masses, regardless of talent level. The people who make Nashville go are the "tunesmiths" who write the songs that are pitched by the hundreds every day on Music Row. Some are well-known, most are completely anonymous to the masses. But all those good times, bad times, bar fights, lost loves, Americana observations and all the other content of your average Country song don't belong to the artist who sings the songs... these are the experiences of the poor slobs who pen dozens of songs a week and have then repeatedly pitched and re-tweaked until somebody decides that the song is perfect for a particular artist they have in mind. Consider yourself educated to some of the harsh realties of Nashville.

 

 

I find it amusing that you and Badtux think you have some kind of secret knowledge on the songwriting process in Nashville.

 

It's common knowledge.

 

You should also know it happens in ALL music. Nashville is not an isolated or special situation. The majority of pop music is written by a hand full of writers and producers. It's been that way for years.

 

What are you going to tell me next? They use studio musicians on big name artist's recordings? There is no Easter Bunny? LOL

 

Back to my point: Taylor Swift had a songwriting contract at age 14 in Nashville. She was writing songs for other people.

 

I have no idea why the two of you felt a need to inform me that they use songwriters in Nashville AFTER I posted that she was SIGNED to a contract as a songwriter prior to getting a recording contract. Makes me wonder if you guys actually read posts before replying to them.

[kujozilla]

Yep, Nashville is a "meat grinder" that'll tear people apart and spit em' out if they're not tough enough to hang in there. There are a lot of very tallented people in and around Nashville that are trying to "make it" but will never do it because the "Music Business" and Music Row just doesn't like "this" or "that" about em'. Travis Tritt had a hell of a time because of his long hair. He just didn't fit the "Music Row Image" so they did all they could to keep him down but eventualy his tallent came thru and there was nothing they could do about it. Same story for many others. There's an Image that you have to have, you don't have to sing well or even write songs, that'll all be taken care of for you as long as you Look The Part. Sad to say but the days of people like Lortta Lynn and Dolly Parton going to Nashville and making it are long gone.

You should watch this movie Frank

[Joseph Hanna]

 

shes not the only Nashville talent who cant sing - ever hear Faith Hill live , she misses every other note as well --

 

 

Is this what you mean by "live"?

 

 

 

or maybe this?

 

 

 

and..

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjpwL3OGHCE