Why do people compare PC to MAC? Does 90% means anything?

[blue2blue]

 

Because 90% of everything is mediocre. Thats life. A Mac for audio will cost anywhere from $700 - A PC spec'd out for audio.... lots and lots and lots of $$$$$$

 

 

 

Agreed on two out of three.

 

And certainly agreed that you CAN spend a whoppin' lot of dough on either machine (I'd say it wouldn't be all that hard to spend $4K on either a Mac or a really high end, high performance PC).

 

But you don't HAVE to spend a lot of dough on a PC.

 

I put together my first PC-based 8 channel DAW in 1996. The machine it was built on I had about $600-$700 in, IIRC, including 15" monitor. (But NOT counting the ADAT i/o card, mind you, the very first Frontier Design card, which cost around $700. And certainly not my converters, which were actually my two ADATs. Also not counting my 2X SCSI CD-writer, which pinned my ears back to the tune of $600! Ah, the pain and joy of being an early adopter.)

 

The machine I built after that cost me maybe about the same, about $700. It was pretty rockin' within a couple hundred mHz of state of the art.

 

The machine I have now was NOT bought to be my primary but just as a utility server and backup for my trusty laptop. It's no rocket ship, mind you, but it's really, really quiet (with it under the table it's quieter than my laptop on the table, which is a very quiet Centrino machine). It was a Dell refurb, cost $403 including tax and shipping (pretty stripped down, no monitor, a single DVD-ROM drive, a Seagate 80 GB Sata drive. I added in my old 160 GB IDE drive from my old machine and tossed a $60 USB DVD writer on it.). A 2.8 gHz P4HT, it's a little behind the performance curve, of course, but it does just fine supporting my MOTU 828mkII using Sonar 5 as well as my alternate interface, a PCI-based Echo Mia, and, of course, the SB-clone built onto the motherboard. And it's been extremely stable as well as extremely quiet.

[audioicon]

But in the music business, it's a different story. The further you climb up the ladder, the more Macs you'll find.

 

 

Is it because the first music software/DAW/software sequencers were Mac base?

 

 

Audioicon

[Geoff Grace]

 

Is it because the first music software/DAW/software sequencers were Mac base?

 

 

Actually, the music community's preference for the Mac platform happened before the DAW age, and there were good sequencers available at the time for the Mac, Atari, and PC platforms.

 

My impression is that musicians preferred the Mac's graphic user interface to that of the PC's MS-DOS command based operating system. Once the music community gravitated to the Mac platform, then Digidesign helped cement that loyalty by releasing Pro Tools as a Mac-only application.

 

Later when the future of the Mac platform was in doubt, Digidesign released PC versions of Pro Tools; but because the Mac platform survived, user loyalty remained in place.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[blue2blue]

I got my first PC back at the end of '86 -- to do database developing on.

 

It was only a couple years after I'd taken my first and only "computer music" class (that was the course name, actually) -- the then new MIDI running on an Apple IIe (er, is that "][e"? )

 

In 1986, I assumed if I was going to do music on a computer it would be one with an advanced OS like the Atari 1040ST, which even had a built in MIDI interface.

 

After great hopes for the Mac, I was hugely disappointed when I played with one. One of my supergeek pals bought a really powerful Amiga a year or two later but like most supergeeks, he was totally captivated by it but never actually did anything with it. (OK... his 3D, shadowed animation of a chrome ball bouncing was pretty amazing in 1988, I suppose, on SOME level. )

 

Anyhow, I'd bought an early Soundblaster JUST to fool around (one of those either 16 bit mono or 8 bit stereo models -- the Soundblaster "Pro"... in typical Creative Labs fashion, you had to read the fine print to realize it only did 8 bit stereo). When I got a multitimbral wavetable synth and sheepishly plugged it into the SB I was HORRIFIED to find I could make credible music on what even I had considered an "overgrown adding machine".

 

From there on it was all downhill...

 

Only a couple years later I was synching my ADATs up via MIDI time code to my Win3.1 based sequencer. I even started producing the radio mini-docs I'd been doing on my ADATs on my PC, using my old AWE32. Edits were amazingly slow but easier to get right the first time -- and it was easly if not quickly undoable -- which was why I fought my talent's initial request to just do it to one of my analog tape machines. (Now, she does her own production on her MacBook. )

 

After Windows 95 introduced multichannel audio and MIDI layers I was able to make real use of my the ADATs and i/o card when Cakewalk was first out the gate with multichannel audio (Logic actually had multichannel audio in the early 90s, I think, but a 4 channel Logic rig, interface, and a computer to run it spec'd out at something close to $10K, which was why I bought my first ADAT at a time when I was already looking forward to HDD based nonlinear audio).

[blue2blue]

Actually, the music community's preference for the Mac platform happened before the DAW age, and there were good sequencers available at the time for the Mac, Atari, and PC platforms. My impression is that musicians preferred the Mac's graphic user interface to that of the PC's MS-DOS command based operating system. Once the music community gravitated to the Mac platform, then Digidesign helped cement that loyalty by releasing Pro Tools as a Mac-only application. Later when the future of the Mac platform was in doubt, Digidesign released PC versions of Pro Tools; but because the Mac platform survived, user loyalty remained in place. Best, Geoff

 

 

Having used DOS character mode sequencers I have to say that, yes, this was one place where the Mac had a wee edge.

 

I don't know if there were any GEM sequencers; seems like I recall there might have been. I was REALLY hoping for a GeoWorks sequencer but we were lucky to get Quattro ported to it -- that's what you get when you've got a really lean, mean, tight, multi-threaded, multitasking operating system -- but your "API" is in assembly language.

 

I also had high hopes for BeOS. You have to realize that for years I ran a completelly Microsoft-free computer. I ran DR-DOS for a number of years instead of MS-DOS. I REALLY wanted GeoWorks to make it.

 

After a hellacious afternoon spent [successfully] installing Windows 2.0 for a friend of a friend, I was dragged kicking and screaming to Windows 3.0... and I did not like it in any way, but it did have all those apps.

 

GeoWork's elegant, modern GUI was a tough act to follow for a jumbled hodgpode like Windows 3.x. It was only late in the game I realized I could, essentially, run everything from the Windows File Manager and avoid that benighted, idotic "desktop" completely... in fact, I think I had things set up so I just went straight into the FM.

 

I was eagerly waiting for Win 95. It was a rocky start, for sure, but its UI was just so much better than previous Windows.

[audioicon]

Actually, the music community's preference for the Mac platform happened before the DAW age, and there were good sequencers available at the time for the Mac, Atari, and PC platforms. My impression is that musicians preferred the Mac's graphic user interface to that of the PC's MS-DOS command based operating system. Once the music community gravitated to the Mac platform, then Digidesign helped cement that loyalty by releasing Pro Tools as a Mac-only application. Later when the future of the Mac platform was in doubt, Digidesign released PC versions of Pro Tools; but because the Mac platform survived, user loyalty remained in place. Best, Geoff

You gave the best analysis on this thread/subject and I admire that. I posted this thread after listening to Bill Gates on NPR and he was asked, do you think PC's are better then Mac? And he reference the 90 percent.
But do you think mac would have been used more if they were cheaper or the same prices as pc's?

Audioicon

[blue2blue]

I know you're asking Geoff but I'd say -- for sure.

[daklander]

Ani , why not just reboot your Mac as a Windows machine when you want to use your PC programs? That way, all you have to do is buy and install a copy of Windows OS and your Mac can double as a Windows machine . Best, Geoff

 

 

That or set up for dual boot with Windows and Linux.

[deanmass]

No Dilbert fans here I guess....

[Anderton]

So I don't get it, I have read all the response but can anyone tell me why 90 percent of computer users use PC?

 

 

Because businesses need computers, and they don't need particularly powerful ones.

 

And they want to make a nice profit.

 

So, why buy more computer than you need?

 

PCs are less expensive if all you want to do is run spreadsheets, write in Word, and go online.

 

End of mystery!

[ShakaCthulu]

And PC has proven my point. All the public libraries I know uses PC not MAC?

 

 

This is because the Gates Foundation donates to the libraries, with the stipulation that only Windows computers are used. Fair enough, just thought it was relevant.

[Antman261]

The uni I'm going to next year uses mac.

 

Some departments in my school last year used mac. Others used PC.

 

My dad's work uses mac.

 

I think to draw a conclusion that one is necessarily better then the other in all regards is...well stupid.

 

Clearly PC's pwn for gaming (lol@using pwn on HC). But I'd much rather have my DAW running on a system where the hardware between each system is consistent and put together with the knowledge that it's going to be running under a particular OS.

 

Unlike PC computers which just seem to be a jumble of random parts that you hope like buggery will work when you stick 'em all together.

 

Either way, what I need from a computer now has changed and I want a mac!

[John Sayers]

Actually, the music community's preference for the Mac platform happened before the DAW age, and there were good sequencers available at the time for the Mac, Atari, and PC platforms. My impression is that musicians preferred the Mac's graphic user interface to that of the PC's MS-DOS command based operating system. Once the music community gravitated to the Mac platform, then Digidesign helped cement that loyalty by releasing Pro Tools as a Mac-only application. Later when the future of the Mac platform was in doubt, Digidesign released PC versions of Pro Tools; but because the Mac platform survived, user loyalty remained in place. Best, Geoff

 

 

I'd go further than that Geoff - C-Lab Notator and Cubase both moved to Mac as Logic and Cubase with the demise of the Atari. Cakewalk was the only PC sequencer worth anything at the time.

 

Logic and Cubase then moved to PC to compete with Cakewalk as the PC's took off once they'd moved to wimp computers (WIMP = Windows, Icons, mouse, Pull-downs).

[Jeff da Weasel]

Because businesses need computers, and they don't need particularly powerful ones. And they want to make a nice profit. So, why buy more computer than you need? PCs are less expensive if all you want to do is run spreadsheets, write in Word, and go online. End of mystery!

 

 

ANDERTON FOR PRESIDENT 2008

 

(Really, I'm serious. Grassroots campaign.)

 

- Jeff

[Anderton]

Actually, I am running for president this year. Well, strolling for president. I hope to get enough write-in votes that I'll get a nice ambassadorship.

Every candidate has to have a platform, which is how this ties into the thread I want to be the cross-platform candidate.

[blue2blue]

 

I'd go further than that Geoff - C-Lab Notator and Cubase both moved to Mac as Logic and Cubase with the demise of the Atari. Cakewalk was the only PC sequencer worth anything at the time. Logic and Cubase then moved to PC to compete with Cakewalk as the PC's took off once they'd moved to wimp computers (WIMP = Windows, Icons, mouse, Pull-downs).

 

 

Actually, MasterTracks Pro for Windows 3.x was pretty okay. I liked it better than early versions of CW I'd tried. But they dragged their backside announcing an audio version and CW Pro Audio came out in '96... I got it right away and never looked back.

 

(Well, I did continue to get emails from MTPro talking about all the groovy features they were bringing to their updates while they developed their audio version... which I think came out late in '98? Anyhow, it was the last blossom of a dying flower as far as I could figure. I never heard of them again in the present tense.)

[MrKnobs]

90% of the drivers drive a Chevy or Ford instead of a Saab. There's a reason.

 

Last I checked, Apple had 4% of the market share, which pretty much makes it irrelevant. They're in the entertainment business now.

 

Windows costs $5 for the Pro version, where I work. Most other MS software does too. Adobe Audition is $75.

 

I don't see how I can ever quit.

 

Terry D.

[Geoff Grace]

 

do you think mac would have been used more if they were cheaper or the same prices as pc's?

 

 

Before Apple adopted Intel hardware, I think they would have been doomed if they had gotten into a price war with PC makers. Because the Mac platform was a closed system, Apple lacked many of the benefits of competition between its hardware vendors enjoyed by the PC world and probably had to pay more to create an equal low-end product with PC manufacturers. Therefore in order to beat PC makers on price, Apple would have either had to sell its products at a loss or create an inferior product.

 

As a result, it made sense for Apple to compete in the high-end market in which features trump price. There are fewer sales to be made that way, but Apple has succeeded reasonably well with this strategy.

 

Now that they've moved to Intel, Apple is on more of an even footing with PC makers and Mac prices are now indeed more competitive. I'm not sure how much it'll help Apple though -- it may be too little too late for the price is the bottom line crowd.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Geoff Grace]

 

I also had high hopes for BeOS.

 

 

That platform had great potential too.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[elsongs]

Check this one out

[Ernest Buckley]

I have never used MAC myself...

 

 

Hmmm, just trying to figure out why you would go off on something you never used. If you can`t afford it, so what? Use a PC, there are plenty to choose from and the same goes for DAWs. Use what works for you. Who cares?

 

I`m an Apple Mac user since 2000. Love the machine. Also have a dual G5. Not cheap stuff. Could have purchased a lot of PC for the $2500 I handed over for my G5. You use what you think is best for your needs. Mac is best for my needs. Mac may not be best for yours. No biggie.

 

I do know many people who have used PCs for year and then when they started to work with Macs, made the switch. Again, it just works best for them. This is not saying one is better than the other (but we MAC users know better!)

[thankyou]

I started, then docked, a clever reply to this early in the thread, but last night, our Mackie power amp decided to test a circuit breaker in my basement, so I had to reboot everything and lost what I was writing.

 

My first thought was, hey, Barbaros is barely cold and we're back to kicking dead horses.

 

I bought an early iMac when our gamer son had so tricked out our Dell that it went into paralysis. I knew that a lot of musicians used Macs and that they weren't a gamer's choice, though that may eventually change. Shortly after buying the iMac, my wife bought a Dell laptop for a home franchise business that only used PC software from the parent company. She immediatly suffered a virus, then another, until she finally paid a guy to come in an clean it out. Since then, she's had other virii and their cousins, spyware and clinging popups. It seemed that the PC just kept accumulating mud on its tires until it could barely move. PC's appeal to the do-it-yourself urge that many people have, myself included. My dad and I built our first Hi Fi record machine from a kit. I still have it, a mono Pilot tube amp, and am now intrigued by its 12AX7's and 6V6 bottles that look an awful lot like an old Deluxe's setup. But I digress. I may be able to make that amp into an 18 watter, but our previous computers seem to lay silently in a closet, waiting for the Night of the Living Hard Drive to wake them into dreadful fury. Note to gamers: howzat for a story idea?

 

The older I get, the more I value time, and the more I value the Mac's lack of stumbling blocks like virii, spyware, incompatibilities and popups. FWIW, Consumer Reports consistantly gives Apple the top marks for customer support, speed and reliability. They also happen to be the most copied of all industrial designs in the computer world. Think GUI, iMac and iPod as the Strat, Tele, Les Paul and SG - good design gets the ultimate compliment in imitation.

 

PC's are great if your wife doesn't think you should be able to fix some disease that a twisted mind sent her hard drive.

[Jeff da Weasel]

I have a simple rule: anyone that questions why a Mac is more expensive than a PC should just buy a PC. End of story. It's soooooo much easier that way. If you're not gonna get it, you don't need to worry about it, or bother everyone else with it.

 

If you truly need to understand what makes a Mac more valuable, go use one for awhile. If you still don't get it, then BUY A PC. Just go buy a PC. It's easy to do, and you'll be happy knowing you spent less money and still have a computer that most people have.

 

Buy a PC.

 

- Jeff

[audioicon]

If Sonar didn't exit I would have owned a MAC. I said it is expensive but that doesn't mean I would have not bought a computer for music if MAC was the only choice or computer available.

Well, I don't have to use something/like/dislike it to make a comment about it. My focus was on the prices and I'm still wondering if MAC would be in business if Microsoft was to release a music/DAW specific PC or let me put it like this, a Multi-media PC.
But I guess it will be called a MAC clone!
Audioicon

[UstadKhanAli]

I'm still wondering if MAC would be in business if Microsoft was to release a music/DAW specific PC or let me put it like this, a Multi-media PC. But I guess it will be called a MAC clone! Audioicon

1. I don't know that it would be a Mac clone. Macs aren't made specifically for music.

2.) There are turnkey PC systems that have existed for years made specifically for DAWs:

http://www.digitalproaudio.com/turnkey-audio-pc-systems.html

http://www.adkproaudio.com/?gclid=CKLMrrSmjooCFSezYAodADzBeg

http://www.pcaudiolabs.com/

So the answer is a resounding yes- Mac would still be in business. Because they are...

Even if you don't ever intend on purchasing a Mac, we all benefit from competition.