Members jackcheez Posted May 16, 2007 Members Share Posted May 16, 2007 And just to end on a cheery note, expect software/hardware incompatibilities/problems to get much, much worse in the years ahead. These systems have reached a level of complexity where I believe the economics of the music industry aren't sufficient to deal with that level complexity, nor are end users. Have a nice day!Expect some thinning of the herd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted May 16, 2007 Members Share Posted May 16, 2007 you have GOT to be kidding me... i have installed Office and other MS products over hundreds of computers that i maintain. i cant give anything but praise to how EASY it is to install, reinstall, move, and generally get Office up and running on machines. i have even spoken with MS on the phone regarding a lost ProductID code and it was a big "NO PROBLEM! let me help you get it working" I thought I was making the point that the MS authorization was superior to NIs. MS most certainly is ultra-protective of their software - my main point being that a company can truly care about protecting its software and still NOT have to have a protection scheme as problematic as NI's. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lakisha Posted May 16, 2007 Members Share Posted May 16, 2007 It doesn't surprise me that customer service would not be very good at fixing these kinds of problems... Thats cause most dont have advance degrees in psychological disorders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lakisha Posted May 16, 2007 Members Share Posted May 16, 2007 * Lakisha is now an NI fan True that. He has convince me through his internet campaign to go out of my way to use NI and be a big NI fan. NI is the {censored}! Yay NI. (does this mean I gotta go buy it now?!?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AOPKeys Posted May 16, 2007 Members Share Posted May 16, 2007 You sound like a very bad version of mother-in-law. No matter what young wife is trying to do she always will be wrong .. Probably the funniest line in this whole thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphajerk Posted May 17, 2007 Members Share Posted May 17, 2007 I thought I was making the point that the MS authorization was superior to NIs. MS most certainly is ultra-protective of their software - my main point being that a company can truly care about protecting its software and still NOT have to have a protection scheme as problematic as NI's. nat whilk ii gotcha i thought there was heavy sarcasm... my bad. there are a LOT of companies like that. super easy installs, "cp protection", even great handling of users [via email no less]... audio companies have taken this to some delusional paranoid insanity IMO. it pisses me off to some extent with all the money i have sunk into software over the years. i probably could have paid off my mortgage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ew_ Posted May 17, 2007 Members Share Posted May 17, 2007 you software is USELESS. that is absolutely the WORST CP there can possibly be. In the case of NI, they'll provide a key that unlocks the software permanently. http://www.nativeinstruments.de/index.php?id=scfaq_us ew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphajerk Posted May 17, 2007 Members Share Posted May 17, 2007 how about they just use that one period? why {censored} around with the expense of the other way [which as a consumer, YOU pay for in the product]? makes no sense to me. especially considering their CP scheme doesnt work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted May 17, 2007 Members Share Posted May 17, 2007 What Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted May 17, 2007 Members Share Posted May 17, 2007 But it helped me. I am better off knowing that some folks have trouble with NI, than I am not knowing. Wake me up when some company disbands their tech support division because no one had any problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flatfinger Posted May 17, 2007 Members Share Posted May 17, 2007 Wake me up when some company disbands their tech support division because no one had any problems. ya, really ; go read the Konnect threads!!! ( sorry; could'nt resist TC !!) :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zenchin Posted May 17, 2007 Members Share Posted May 17, 2007 ...."IMHO.. you were being an ass from the beginning. You are expecting software and customer support utopia. It's not going to happen. Especially with your mentality...." I also thought the guy was out of line. Which I mentioned elsewhere. Additionally, the original threads still exist saying to never buy from NI...they still live. All over the Internet. A number of people will continue to read the first 10 or 20 posts in all the multiple threads and not bother going to the 186th post where the guy mentions NI fixed his problem. Basically, the guy did a lot of damage that can't be undone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 I think the Internet is a good way for the word to get out about problem products and shoddy customer support, and I definitely see the value to that. However, I've ALWAYS stressed the importance of being fair when you post about a problem, and IMO, fairness dictates that when a company fixes a problem, you should go back to every thread you started about that problem and update it (preferably the first post) so that everyone knows the problem was fixed. Unfortunately, not everyone does that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted May 18, 2007 Members Share Posted May 18, 2007 I'd take that further: Thye should post what the solution was, so that others might benefit. Then again, if they did, it just might make them look like morons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphajerk Posted May 18, 2007 Members Share Posted May 18, 2007 I'd take that further: Thye should post what the solution was, so that others might benefit. Then again, if they did, it just might make them look like morons so many times its just ONE LITTLE THING that keeps things from functioning properly. yesterday i had a networking issue that prevented the computer from connecting to the server via VPN. the VPN was up and running, you could ping the server, you could connect via RDC... but when you tried to connect to the server HD, it would say "no connection... something or another" and when you tried to map the drive fresh, it would say "network doesnt exist" well, it DID exist... so im sitting there wondering WTF?!? i get its some stupid little thing [backtrack, this had been working perfectly for months and months... stopped on a wednesday, probably after an update] so i go through the services and sure enough, the 'workstation' service had stopped for some reason. i started it back up and bam, worked immediately. this however was after bypassing the firewall, rebooting, checking user loging/pwd's, trying everything ELSE in the book... but it was on little thing i had overlooked. weird. honestly however to the people who are blasting this guy... at least he PAID the money for the software, because he could have gotten it for FREE and probably authorized far more easily than if he had paid for it. at least give him credit for being honest and putting up with questionable CP schemes. that to me is more offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted May 18, 2007 Members Share Posted May 18, 2007 honestly however to the people who are blasting this guy... at least he PAID the money for the software, because he could have gotten it for FREE and probably authorized far more easily than if he had paid for it. at least give him credit for being honest and putting up with questionable CP schemes. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Lozada Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 Treat a manufacturer like your friend, and see how far they go out of their way to help you. If I were in charge of NI, I would have made absolutely sure this guy's money was returned and he be considered persona non grata from that point on. His information was faulty and defamatory, not to mention indefensibly overdramatic.I think it speaks highly of Native Instruments that they were willing to help him after everything he did. I will be more likely to buy their products as a result. /standing ovation Bravo ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members deanmass Posted May 19, 2007 Members Share Posted May 19, 2007 Devils' advocate.... Jeff, and Gus, no offense, but you guys are/were products reps. Gus, I have in so many words told you that a M-Audio piece (Radium 49e) I have is garbage on here. You were fair in your response, no flaming, etc...Always been level headed. the things still does not work, and thus sits while I use the Novation product that worked perfectly out of the box on all three systems I ran it on. Point being, I think both of you are a little soft to the corporate side due to the nature of your jobs. I would be too, if I did those gigs. Software, however is a different animal. From what I read, this guy was pissed and crabby that his 2K worth of software did not work. What NI SHOULD have done ( which they may well have) was to make sure this person was taken care of, no matter what the cost, because regardless of who is to blame, the software company is the one who suffers the negativity. Dealt with better, earlier, this guy would become an evangelist for NI. It is admirable they were willing to give a refund. It is sketchy that M127 did not respond to the 'reload and re-install' suggestion I and several others gave, but the overall tone of this thread seems to be demonizing a frustrated customer who did a lot of web venting. I think NI missed an opportunity here to rise above and knock it out of the park. Maybe M127 (not saying you are, just what if-ing scenarios..)) is mentally deranged ( to quote one of my fave movies, E-is Ill.)...Maybe he is a nutt job, but then again, maybe NI's software is crappy, their copy protection non-customer centric, and they are covering their corporate asses. Maybe he got a bad dongle. Maybe he has a key code that is a hex value off. Who knows. Anyone who lays out 2K for software when it is generally easy to pirate anything free has quite a wide a latitude to bitch if it proves problematic. If the company blames Windows, config issues, whatever, that is the cost of doing biz in the Windows world, and their tech support should have have the methodologies for troubleshooting down to a science if the software is dependent on a key to get in AFTER you have paid your 2 grand. At 2 K, NI should be willing to pop for Tibuktu Pro to remote into the guys machine and SEE what is the problem. If you bought a Les Paul, and it did not work right, and the company blames the pick, you would be pissed EVEN if it WAS/IS the pick. I realize this is a ridiculous over-simplification, but, I don't think there is a lot of empathy here for the customer. I have been a heavy computer user for 20 years, and I have spent some serious coin on some supposedly serious software (and hardware) that was CRAP, even after seeing write ups to the contrary, reviews, etc. Bad Software is out there. Bad support is MORE the norm that a Bad user. It sounds like it is all basically resolved, but, please, lets not be quick to assume the customer is wrong. the old ratio applies, a customer having a bad experience will tell 11 people, a customer having a good experience will tell 1. NI has an obligation to make sure the customer has a good experience if they want to be around in 10 years. That is the bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lakisha Posted May 19, 2007 Members Share Posted May 19, 2007 I think it speaks highly of Native Instruments that they were willing to help him after everything he did. I will be more likely to buy their products as a result. They werent neccessarily jus helpin him, once he brought it on the net, they knew that a hole bunch a people were watchin so it become a pr problem to fix, not just a tech help problem to fix. We can love NI and not be naive about the hole thing too, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members m127 Posted May 19, 2007 Author Members Share Posted May 19, 2007 I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lakisha Posted May 19, 2007 Members Share Posted May 19, 2007 "Perhaps the central theme of economic theory, efficiency is concerned with the optimal allocation of scarce resources. Efficiency is achieved when some specific criterion is maximized and no allocation of resources could yield a higher value according to that criterion. Usually, efficiency measures, such as Pareto optimality and Hicks optimality, attempt to maximize either individual or communal payoffs." From gametheory.net The part a economic theory that has to do with what you just did is called "blackmail." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members temnov Posted May 19, 2007 Members Share Posted May 19, 2007 The part a economic theory that has to do with what you just did is called "blackmail." +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphajerk Posted May 19, 2007 Members Share Posted May 19, 2007 The part a economic theory that has to do with what you just did is called "blackmail." you come off as a bigger moron each time i read a post of yours. do you even know what blackmail IS? this is simply a disgruntled CUSTOMER expressing his frustration. god forbid anyone does that... certainly wont read this stuff in magazines cause they are the manufacturers little bitches and fail to comment what a PITA the CP scheme is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lakisha Posted May 19, 2007 Members Share Posted May 19, 2007 do you even know what blackmail IS? this is simply a disgruntled CUSTOMER expressing his frustration. god forbid anyone does that... certainly wont read this stuff in magazines cause they are the manufacturers little bitches and fail to comment what a PITA the CP scheme is. An I wont read in a magazine what a simpleton you is either. Maybe you should change you name to simplejerk. Only a simplejerk would think that m127 is "simply a disgruntled CUSTOMER expressing his frustration". Let me explain. Jus cause one things true dont mean another things not also true. What you say happin to be true a lot of the time. The mags can be little bitches just like you say, an m127 looks sorta like a disgruntled customer. The simpleton would stop right there an call it a day. But check it out, just cause the mags can be a little bitch dont mean that m127 cant be a little bitch at the same time. Hes far from "simply a disgruntled customer." He cross the line and use the internet for blackmail. m127 say "either you do what i want or I will hurt you by launchin a campaign on the net against you." They say "OK, heres 2k to stop." He say "so now we understand each other but I want more. I want you to jump up and down, talk to me with smoke signals instead a the phone, and do whatever i want or i will continue to spend crazy time an effort talkin {censored} about you." An since m127 seem like a mix a someone whos real smart an someone who also sound like a crazy person an someone who got to much time on there hands, NI start to get scared. He spendin crazy time talkin {censored}. It went from tech support problem to pr problem to blackmail problem. m127 threaten to keep hurin NI and NI realize that the cost a meetin his demands was less than the cost a the damage he was doin. Wiki: Blackmail is the act of threatening to reveal information about a person unless the threatened party fulfills certain demands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boosh Posted May 19, 2007 Members Share Posted May 19, 2007 Lakisha,........... Me Thinks in first time you were one Crazy assed MF. But clearly you think the same as I do,.... This makes me wonder if I'm a Crazy assed MF too??? Dang,..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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