Members sailorman Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 I'm about to order another new laptop. That is, after returning my current laptop for a refund. I'd bought it new in April, called tech support in July after it exhibited a serious charging issue, 4 onsite visits by tech support and 2 refurbs. 1st refurb DOA, bad motherboard, same charging issue, sent it back. 2nd refurb worked OK for a couple weeks, then, sure enough, same charging issue, plus a couple new ones just for fun. Support in India; I am NOT a racist or in any way against people from other countries; I was in IT for 30 years and worked with plenty of fine folks from India, China and elsewhere. But trying to understand someone on the phone with a heavy foreign accent of any sort is most difficult. Finally got fed up and asked for a refund. So I've had it. I've found one vendor that has a US based support center. But user reviews all over the place. My kids new laptop, different brand, died in short order. Went through 3 of yet a third brand issued by my former employer, same with my wife (two different brands). So, is it possible to find a laptop that will last for several years of web browsing, watching videos, minor photo/video/audio editing (Photoshop/Vegas/Sonar)??? I'm tempted to buy the cheapest thing I can find so at least I don't get pissed off after spending $800-1200 bucks for a disposable item. :mad: What have you folks experienced??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff Leites Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 I bought a Dell (from their business division) in 8/2008.I don't use it a lot (mainly for trips and connecting to the TV for an occasional movie or TV show that I missed), but I haven't had any hardware problems with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 Perhaps I'm lucky, laptops have always worked pretty good for me. My '08 MBP still works like a dream. I just recently sold an '06 MBP that still worked great although I did have to put a new optical drive in it and the battery needed replaced. I also still have an old (circa 2000) Apple G3 Lombard that I bought off eBay several years ago that works good although I'd also put a new optical drive in it too. As for PCs, last year my mom inherited the Toshiba Satellite I bought at Best Buy in '06. It's also a fine working computer although I did replace the battery in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Lozada Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 I think you have either a terrible case of bad luck or a very messy electric installation at home Not to make this the typical, boring Mac Vs. PC thing, but I have owned MacBook Pros for pro-audio recording / editing, for live performances and as my travel machine (I visit every single country in Latin America twice a year)... and I have never had a problem with a Laptop. I give you my word on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sailorman Posted November 9, 2010 Author Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 I think you have either a terrible case of bad luck or a very messy electric installation at home Well, 3 laptops died at work (fortune 100 company); Lenovo T61s. All had overheating/fan related problems. According to the desktop support folks at the office, they saw a lot of that problem. My wife's (IT pro) T61 also started blue screening/random shutdowns due to; yep, overheating. Was replaced by another Lenovo, T70 series??? Prior to that, her shop used another brand that had so many failures, they switched to Lenovo. So doubt that had anything to do with my electrical system. As to Mac's; I was in IT for 30 years, and could care less about a particular platform. I worked on IBM mainframes, various unix systems (Sun, IBM/AIX, HP, Linux, etc.) and WinTel. They're just tools to get a job done. I'd switch to a Mac in a minute, except that everything I do and/or know on the personal computing platform is Wintel, as is most of my software. I use open office to avoid paying microsoft any more than I have to for their bloatware. But switching over to a Macbook, especially at the price point, probably would be difficult for me. But you may be right, I may look for a used one to fool around with to see just how much of an adjustment it would be. I'd rather pay a lot once than have the damned things die on me every couple years. Bad luck? Yep, I can buy that for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PermaNoobie Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 Being that you are on the water you might want to consider ruggedized - like the toughbook series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 I'm about to order another new laptop. That is, after returning my current laptop for a refund. I'd bought it new in April, called tech support in July after it exhibited a serious charging issue, 4 onsite visits by tech support and 2 refurbs. 1st refurb DOA, bad motherboard, same charging issue, sent it back. 2nd refurb worked OK for a couple weeks, then, sure enough, same charging issue, plus a couple new ones just for fun. Support in India; I am NOT a racist or in any way against people from other countries; I was in IT for 30 years and worked with plenty of fine folks from India, China and elsewhere. But trying to understand someone on the phone with a heavy foreign accent of any sort is most difficult. Finally got fed up and asked for a refund. So I've had it. I've found one vendor that has a US based support center. But user reviews all over the place. My kids new laptop, different brand, died in short order. Went through 3 of yet a third brand issued by my former employer, same with my wife (two different brands). So, is it possible to find a laptop that will last for several years of web browsing, watching videos, minor photo/video/audio editing (Photoshop/Vegas/Sonar)??? I'm tempted to buy the cheapest thing I can find so at least I don't get pissed off after spending $800-1200 bucks for a disposable item. :mad: What have you folks experienced??? Seriously, I`m not trying to start a MAC vs. PC war (again) but have you considered an Apple? Everything you mentioned... you would excel with an Apple lap top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sailorman Posted November 9, 2010 Author Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 Seriously, I`m not trying to start a MAC vs. PC war (again) but have you considered an Apple? Everything you mentioned... you would excel with an Apple lap top. Starting to think you and Gus may be right. I don't have to worry about using it at work anymore (got laid of in April and retired). Just how well does Bootcamp work???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimOBrien Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 Been using the same Gateway laptop for over 4 years with ZERO problems. First thing comes to mind: buy cheap and buy trouble. Unfortunately the way companies are being micro-managed these days its tough to point out ANY one company and say 'their products are good'... some product lines are tanks and others fall apart when you take them out of the box. You're going to have to research and research, MAKE SURE YOU CAN RETURN IT and then work it hard for the first month to make sure everything does as advertised.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 Starting to think you and Gus may be right. I don't have to worry about using it at work anymore (got laid of in April and retired). Just how well does Bootcamp work???? Do you have an Apple store near you? Stop in and play around with their laptops! I was on a PC for 10 years doing mostly MIDI sequencing. Then in 2000, purchased my first Apple and never looked back. For me, the layout of the machine made more sense. Once OSX came along, it was almost an extension of my brain... crazy... You look around, you may find a PC worth your while as well. Using a computer should be fun. Knock on wood, I never have to worry about viruses and such either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted November 9, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted November 9, 2010 Buy a used laptop that's at least a year old. Update it if you insist. Get a new battery for it. Add more memory if it'll take it. Get a new disk drive and do a fresh OS installation. You've worked in IT so you know all that stuff, or know people who do. It's rare to have such a bad experience with a new laptop. I'm surprised that the company continued to repair it and didn't just replace it. But sometimes they do crazy things. Like just about everyone else here, I've had four laptops, still currently own three, the oldest being a Dell from about 2001 and I've never had a bit of hardware, or even incompatibility, problems with any of them. The Dell and the Thinkpad T42 pretty much stayed on all the time when they were in service, and the Thinkpad is still running that way, serving as the Internet radio and a backup for my writing and bookkeeping files and software. The Asus EeePC that I travel with now has been reliable for the six months that I've owned it (I'm writing on it now) and it only cost $200. But I wouldn't try to make it ready for Pro Tools 9 and try to record 96 tracks with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sailorman Posted November 9, 2010 Author Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 Using a computer should be fun. Couldn't agree more. And I did absolutely love the laptop I had; guess I should 'fess up. It was a Dell Studio 17. Great screen, and great sound. I loved the fact that I could watch youtube videos or listen to band rehearsals without needing headphones. But then the hardware issues cropped up. The problem as I see it, is extraordinarily bad tech support management. Response to the reported problem was quick. Sent a tech to the house. Techs are independent contractors, very competent. But each came with a box of parts supplied by Dell. Each time someone came to the house, they did not have the right parts to fix the problem (bad charger daughter board). Then the 'certified refurbished' unit arrives DOA. Bad motherboard, same exact charging problem and a dead wireless card. Certified by who, a chimpanzee????? I was on the phone with support for an hour on 3 separate occasions. They finally did send me a new unit; an Inspirion worth about $300 less than my Studio, which they no longer make; wasn't what I'd paid for so I returned it. Since an equivalent XPS model now costs $150 more, they just offered a refund. I can buy the fact that this particular hardware issue may be limited to the model I had. But the tech support issues will be there until they address their management/coordination issues. And I should add, I'm not Dell bashing. i have a Dell PC that's close to 10 years old. was my first 'studio PC' running Cakewalk Home Studio. Daily use for years until I upgraded to a purpose build ADK. Then it survived both my kids for about 6 years. Constantly running. I removed enough dust to stuff a mattress. Still works fine. So they do build good desktop units. I appreciate all of the comments and recommendations. Much to consider before taking the plunge again. Meanwhile, I may try to resurrect my son's laptop for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted November 9, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted November 9, 2010 It was a Dell Studio 17. Great screen, and great sound. I loved the fact that I could watch youtube videos or listen to band rehearsals without needing headphones. But then the hardware issues cropped up.The problem as I see it, is extraordinarily bad tech support management. No argument about the tech support. It's terrible everywhere. I'm fortunate that I never really had any support needs for my "supportable" computers. When I got my first Firewire audio interface I had to get a PCMCIA adapter. I got the audio working OK, but then when I tried to use a Firewire disk drive through the adapter, it wouldn't go. The operating system would recognize that there was a drive out there, but that was about it. I called Dell Tech Support to ask for some help and got a bit of a runaround, which I expected since two out of the three devices in question (the PCMCIA adapter and the drive) weren't theirs. Best they could offer was pointing me to a BIOS update which didn't help. I was surprised a couple of days later with a phone call from someone who identified himself as a tech support manager, following up on my call. He said that he had researched my model and that he understood why I was having the problem. The PCMCIA port on that motherboard couldn't handle the speed of a disk drive. He said that if I had the extended warranty he could replace the motherboard at no cost, but since I didn't, I chose not to buy the upgrade. No big deal since I didn't really intend to do much recording on that computer, but I thought that they treated me pretty well. That was about 6-7 years ago, though. The thing with Dell is that they have two, or maybe three distinct product lines. What you bought is ideal for listening to audio and watching video, essentially what most people use in the home as a desktop replacement. Unless it affected something else (like the computer quit working), most users of that line would probably never have noticed a problem with the battery charger. That "home desktop replacement" line is constantly being diddled with, either when they find a lower cost component that can prepace one in the current version, or there's a new multimedia capability that they want to add. Professional audio recording is the furthest thing from their mind. The "business" line is quite different. They use better quality components where it matters, they don't load them up too badly with consumer applications (mostly trial versions), and most important, they don't make willy-nilly configuration changes so parts and diagnostic techniques don't go out of date so quickly. Support people tend to be better trained on those models because they're dealing more with peole who are pretty competent rather than those who call about the broken cupholder. But of course you pay more up front for one of those computers. Generally, it's worth it if you intend to keep it for a while and need to depend on it. Good luck with your next shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 I've had great luck with the refurb Dell Centrino I bought in 2004, used every day in the field and at home until 2006, when I 'retired' it to the portable use, where I used it probably 4-5 days a week for the next couple years. It probably only gets booted up a few times a month, now, but, so far so good. (Touch wood.) In 2007 or so I helped my mom find a refurb Dell 17" and, while it's not a heavy use machine, it's been no trouble. That said, I was just on the phone with some 3DW friends who had a Dell have a HDD go down in the first month, got a refund at the brick & mortar store where they bought it and bought a different brand (not sure the brand)... they called this a.m. because its Wi Fi has gone hinky. I'm headed over there this pm to see if I can suss out the prob. [EDIT/Update: Happy ending. Turns out it was just that dreaded POS, Norton Security's firewall that had suddenly gone rogue and decided to protect the machine from the internet. Completely. System restore to before the problem didn't do the trick. Happily, the Win 7 diagnostics pointed to the culprit in clear English when I finally got the right diagnostics -- even though that part was pretty cool, I hated how MS is still trying to protect us from its own OS's vital tools and functionalities. Anyhow, I checked with the laptop's owner if it was OK to trash Norton which had 19 days left on one of those 'free 90 day trials' -- and she was quite enthusiastic. Happily Norton has finally figured out that making uninstallation impossible by normal humans was not winning them friends so the uninstall was as easy as any other. I put on MS Security Essentials and everyone was happy. Who counted. Symantec/Norton can go to heck.] But they've also had an Acer laptop and a couple Macbooks go bad in the last few years, as well, in addition to a 2 or 3 year old iMac that died about a year ago. So... man, I dunno what anymore... With re Dell customer support -- I've never had to use them myself except to get an OS disk after I realized they no longer come with them (hint: do not call their sales for something like that -- those guys are only want to sell full systems and will shunt you from one to another until you finally end up throwing up your hands; cust support took care of my need with much less fuss, although it still took over ten minutes just to get the $10 disk. It was such a hassle, they volunteered to send it out free.) But I did come to the aid of an old client whose Dell office machine got left half finished by an onsite contract service guy (he told them it was done and ready for them to go on the phone with support and they'd walk him through the rest -- that was what he thought he was bringing me in to do -- turned out the bozo didn't even hook up one of the hard drives and didn't get the basic networking operating, and there was some other stuff). I ended up in an hour plus support dialog with a guy with a perfect English accent and idiom but a distinctly SE Asian name (that I forget) who was absolutely the best phone support guy I've ever had. It took a while because there were still a number of things that had to be done with the hardware. When I had originally got on the line with Dell I explained what a mess their onsite guy had left and told them that, as a consultant, I was going to have to stop recommending Dells, so they may have kicked me to a 'specialist' -- anyhow, this phone dude was great. You know how they usually walk you through in baby steps because they're working from a step by step printed out algo? This guy sussed out my expertise level quickly and didn't explain anything he didn't have to do. PLUS he turned me on to the greatest XP hot-key ever, Win-Pause Break, which brings up the System Properties dialog. Anyhow, I explained how badly the onsite guy had messed up and I suspect the word was passed along, as the phone support guy seemed really ticked, too. I also left the poor idiot a note, since he was due back to pick up something he forgot or some nonsense. So much for onsite repair, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted November 9, 2010 Members Share Posted November 9, 2010 I've been using a PC Audio Labs laptop for running 64-bit Vegas and editing videos at trade shows...it totally rocks. Any limitations are in the software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members techristian Posted November 10, 2010 Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 My first laptop was a Gateway refurb. It only lasted a few months before the CD/DVD burner died. I have had this Acer Aspire 5520 for 3 years now and it seems that the CD/DVD burner has just died recently. (or it got wiped out of the CMOS) Otherwise , I'm very happy with it. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nice keetee Posted November 10, 2010 Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 old dell still works, vastly underpowered but still works. 5 years old... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sailorman Posted November 10, 2010 Author Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 Evidently, it's a crap shoot. My Dell is packed up to ship back for a refund. Sent it back in the HP laptop box that my kid's laptop came in. I'm sure Dell will enjoy that. I'm on his old Acer laptop. This one has a bad charger port, have to wrap the cord around the base of the display to keep it going; battery seems to be bad, won't charge. But works until I can do some more research. I like Craig's suggestion, and considered an ADK laptop, since I've had great luck with the music PC I bought from them, both from a performance and support standpoint. But I don't really need anything with that power, since I do my recording stuff on the 'big' pc. Still, may be worth the extra $$$$ for reliability. Gonna look at the Mac route too. You folks have given me a lot to think about and I appreciate all of the insights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted November 10, 2010 Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 I don't like laptops unless they have discreet graphics. This really seems to boost the price but I like performance. I'll most likely get a new 17" MBP within the next few months but if I was still a PC guy I'd probably go for one of the Toshiba Quismo models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PermaNoobie Posted November 10, 2010 Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 I'm on his old Acer laptop. This one has a bad charger port, have to wrap the cord around the base of the display to keep it going; battery seems to be bad, won't charge. But works until I can do some more research. I have a lenovo like thatI just hard-wired the power cable on an epoxied in a a strain relief I don't really blame Lenovo though - I'm not exactly gentle on these things - lifestyle reasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted November 10, 2010 Members Share Posted November 10, 2010 Well, just because Keetee's 5 year old Dell or my nearly 7 year old Dell are still rockin' (underpowered by today's standards but rockin', I suppose I should say ) doesn't mean, sadly, that we can or should expect a recent machine from the same manufacturer to have the same longevity. And the same applies, really, to any manufacturer. The business of laptops has changed greatly over the last decade. There was a time when laptops were expensive and more the province of professionals and heavy tech types -- and when more attention was paid to the insides and to dependability and longevity than to exterior sleekness and looks. The Centrino refurb I bought in early 2004 would have been roughly $2200 bucks had I bought it new (with a 3 year onsite warranty). The refurb price with warranty was $1725. By contrast, you could put together a very capable desktop machine for under $1000 at the time. For context, the friends I mentioned above with pretty bad luck in laptops, Apple and Windows, bought a used G4 Powerbook that had sold just about a year and a half before (summer 2003, probably not more than a few months before my Dell was made) for $2800 (with a similar 3 year warranty); their purchase price through friends was between $700 and $800 (the going rate for the model used by that time). That machine died about a year and a half later -- but in the several weeks I spent with it (unimportant side story), it proved to be a very underperforming machine. The much less expensive MacBooks they've gone through (that's a dead G4 Powerbook and two dead MacBooks) and currently have two of have been rocket ships comparatively. [it must be noted that these friends are not tech types. If the guys at the Genius Bar or the GeekSquad guys at BestBuy say they need a new Mac or PC respectively, they buy one. (I should ask what they're doing with the old ones, come to think of it -- although that PB was pretty close to unusable even when it worked. That said, the form factor of the MB's is such that I can't imagine there's much you can even get at inside. They are incredibly slim machines, even the several year old ones.) And I'll say this, since I sat with them when they were getting their first MB up and running on the home network I helped them set up -- the Apple out of box experience is really the way it should be done. I may have my qualms about more than a couple aspects of the company's corporate politics and some aspects of their treatment of their customers -- but, damn, no one seems to get that often critical first day with your new machine anywhere as right as Apple. Give the devil his due. ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fedtho Posted November 13, 2010 Members Share Posted November 13, 2010 First, I'd like to first quote blue2blue: Well, just because Keetee's 5 year old Dell or my nearly 7 year old Dell are still rockin' (underpowered by today's standards but rockin', I suppose I should say ) doesn't mean, sadly, that we can or should expect a recent machine from the same manufacturer to have the same longevity. And the same applies, really, to any manufacturer. I have an Apple PowerBook G4 from 2004 that fell hard two times... and still works. I have been told very clearly that I am not to expect that kind of robust built in today's MacBooks. Now, having read through the thread, I'm surprised nobody has enforced that MBPs having Intel chips, you can buy what we pretty much can trust to be a high quality hardware laptop from Apple and use it exclusively as a Windows machine... !? I have a friend allergic to OSX, but who's using a MacBook with Windows7 - never heard back from him about that, and he's the type to complain (and to have bad luck on top of it ) So... if nobody mentionned this as viable way to go, maybe I'm unaware of troubles occuring when running Windows on a MacBook/along OSX (Snow...?) Leopard which I hear has Bootcamp incorporated...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sailorman Posted November 13, 2010 Author Members Share Posted November 13, 2010 that's really what I'm looking for; a reliable hardware platform. Software issues I can deal with, hardware I can't. All 3 of the same model laptops I had from Dell had motherboard issues; how could I deal with that??? Even if I was able to purchase and replace the motherboard myself, they seemed to have a design issue, not to mention the expense..! No way to fix that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DukeOfBoom Posted November 13, 2010 Members Share Posted November 13, 2010 Lenovo thinkpads are workhorses for sure. just as important as any laptop that you purchase though, is the extended warranty you get with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted November 14, 2010 Members Share Posted November 14, 2010 The thing about laptops is they are much more miniaturized, so: - getting heat out of them is harder. More heat = shorter life- they are more expensive- the add-ons (memory, for example) are almost always custom & nonstandard- PCs (until recently) had a projected life of 2.5 to 3 years. This makes it unreasonable to pay for the extra design cost to deal with heat - - if the MTBF is 4 years, most manufacturers will say "good enough!" and ship it, secure in the knowledge they'd have another sale in 30 months or so. Laptops are an even more extreme case of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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