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Lets build something that looks like an ES-175

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  • #16
    Very clean work on the jigs and such as always, Freeman. Personally, I HATE working with that MDF stuff. Even with a respirator on to keep me from hacking up a lung there's a TON of cleanup.

    Anyway, what setback? You know what the issue is and took steps to solve. Hopefully LMI gets it right and UPS doesn't back a truck over the box on the return trip. Other than that, you probably already know that you just need things "in the ball park" with regards to thickness until it's all put together. That tap tone is an elusive that is constantly changing. Even after you're done it'll take a good 6 months before you really know what the guitar is going to sound like because the wood still wants to be a tree.

    FWIW I happened to acquire one of those Tone Rite thingies. When you're all done would you like to use it? I put it on a couple of my guitars and it really "wakes them up."

    Last edited by kwakatak; 07-31-2014, 06:09 AM.
    Gear:
    2013 Official Luthier's Forum Medium Jumbo (Western red cedar/mahogany)
    2012 McKnight McUke (soprano ukulele, redwood/mahogany)
    2010 Martin D-16GT
    2006 Larrivee OM-03R
    1998 Fender American Standard Stratocaster (natural ash finish)
    1989 Kramer Stryker
    197? Epiphone Texan FT-160N

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by kwakatak View Post
      FWIW I happened to acquire one of those Tone Rite thingies. When you're all done would you like to use it? I put it on a couple of my guitars and it really "wakes them up."
      Wow, sweet offer. Lets talk more when I get farther along. I've been interested in these things for quite a while.

      Meanwhile, last night I built a little jig for the f-holes. Already had a Gibson headstock and a humbucker templates from the LP and that thingie on the right is my home made fret wire bender. Just getting every thing out of the attic.



      Got the old go-bar out and put it together - you'll get tired of seeing this thing

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      • #18
        Very cool. This kind of stuff always amazes me.
        -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Mesa Boogie Road King II
        Carvin 2x12 cab
        Egnater Rebel 30 Combo
        Fender FSR Standard Black
        Schecter Hellraiser Black Cherry
        Ibanez RG570 Blue
        Ibanez AR200 Red Wine
        Gretsch G5120 Orange
        Hofner Shorty White
        Musket > Morley Bad Horsie > DynaComp > FullDrive 2 > BBE Green Screamer > EH POG2 > Ernie Ball Volume > Amp
        Loop EFX: Line 6 M9

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        • #19
          Let me know. I can't scientifically stand behind it but I let it hum for a day or so and my ears are happy. I 'm tempted to pepper you with questions and offer my 2 cents even though I know a lot less.
          Gear:
          2013 Official Luthier's Forum Medium Jumbo (Western red cedar/mahogany)
          2012 McKnight McUke (soprano ukulele, redwood/mahogany)
          2010 Martin D-16GT
          2006 Larrivee OM-03R
          1998 Fender American Standard Stratocaster (natural ash finish)
          1989 Kramer Stryker
          197? Epiphone Texan FT-160N

          Comment


          • #20
            Jesse said he had a guitar that he really liked the fingerboard and could I copy it. Sure, I said, and he brought this sweet little Goldtop to the shop. I've got this cool little tool that lets me make templates from almost any curved surface (works great to copy the carved top of a guitar)



            Traced the neck profile and wrote down some measurements - basically the same as my LP plans but considerably deeper.



            Since Jesse was going off racing I had to keep the Goldie for a few days. Here it is with the Faux Paul

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            • #21
              Woo hoo!!!!! Freeman does it again!!

              Thanks for sharing and I'll be back regularly to check out your progress!

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              • #22
                Freeman, for what it's worth I LOVE seeing the jigs and prep work, that a very big part of what makes your build threads so great.

                Comment


                • #23

                  While we're waiting for the wood to come back lets start building the neck. At least that way we'll be working on the guitar. First, however, a little talk about truss rods.

                  Guitars need truss rods for two main reasons - first they stabilize and strengthen the neck. That can be a metal rod, carbon fiber, maybe ebony - and doesn't have to be adjustable - it simply counter acts the tension of the strings. Martin used tee and square bars of steel for years back in the "golden era", many builders today use carbon fiber. Classical guitars don't need them.

                  The second reason is to allow the neck curvature to be adjusted. The strings pull the neck into a bow shape, the truss rod allows you to adjust the amount of bowing, commonly called relief. Gibson's traditional rod is a 5/32 rod threaded on one end (the headstock) and with an L shape at the other which fits into a hole in the neck heel. The rod fits in a curved channel in the neck, tightening the nut puts the rod in tension which compresses the neck below the nut and counters the tension of the strings. It works, sorta, but really isn't a very elegant engineered solution - the torque on the nut is very non linear, the nut requires a rather large recess in the headstock, and compressing the neck really isn't a very efficient way to bend it. If you loosen the nut (counter clockwise) it eventually comes off just like a nut on a bolt. At this point the neck assumes whatever curve is built into it plus that added by the string tension (always adjust relief with tension). When you tighten the nut it comes up snug, then in a very small amount of turning gets really hard to turn. Keep cranking and something will go “pop”. Hopefully you’ve been able to achieve the amount of relief that you want somewhere before this happens. I used a Gibson style rod in my mandolin and vowed never again.

                  There are many other truss rod designs - the one I like the best is called a "double acting" rod. Basically it is a thin piece of steel bar with threaded pieces welded to each end. On has a standard thread, the other a reverse thread (like a turn buckle) - a threaded rod fits in those pieces and has a little socket for a 5mm allen wrench. Turning the adjuster one way brings the ends together and flexes the square rod out, turning the other way flexes it in. Here are two double acting rods adjusted "neutral"

                  Here are the same rods - the top one with one half turn counter clockwise, the bottom one with one half turn clockwise

                  Note a couple of things about those rods - they can exert force to remove relief or add it or even add back bow. When you adjust them they get progressively harder to turn in a very linear fashion. Turn them far enough and they can exert a tremendous amount of force either against your soundboard or nut. I want to say that once more – those pictures are only one half turn. If the “luthier” at GC says “I’ll give your truss rod a crank (to lower the action)”: grab your guitar and run like hell. One eight of a turn is all you should ever do at one time.

                  Last comment – why would you want to use the T/R to put relief into the neck – doesn’t the strings do that automatically? Well, actually, you don’t but on some fret jobs the tangs of the frets push the slots apart creating backbow and you need to counter that (the strings aren’t applying enough tension). The sweet thing about these rods is that you can adjust the neck perfectly flat when you are doing fretwork (we’ll see that sometime in a month or so).

                  End of truss rod thesis…
                  Last edited by Freeman Keller; 08-02-2014, 08:16 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Next rant is about the traditional way of sawing necks out of one piece of wood. Here is a picture from the LMI site



                    That is basically the way Gibson and Martin and many others do it – that hunk of wood costs a hundred and fifty bucks and makes two neck (and generates a bunch of waste). Not only that, a sawn neck is very weak right at the base of the headstock (right where we hogged out that big hole for the truss rod nut – no wonder this happens


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                    • #25
                      This seems like a much better way to do it. I buy a 1 X 3 X 30 piece of mahogany for $46 (which will make one neck) and cut it at 14 to 16 degress.



                      Thin the cutoff piece down to ½” and flip it over (I’m making two necks at the same time – got another project as soon as this is done)



                      And glue them together



                      Stack a few more blocks of the same piece of wood to make the heel

                      [img]]http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f387/Freeman_Keller/ES-175/IMG_1480_zps900bd47a.jpg[/img]

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                      • #26
                        mmmm, seems to be something wrong with that last link but I can't figure out what and as I said before, I've got better things to do than trying to figure out this forums quirks, so lets move ahead Take the whole thing to the router table and cut the truss rod channel


                        Two necks ready for their rods

                        [img]http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...psb48865db.jpg[/img]

                        Notice how nice and small the cavity for the adjuster is – if you have to have a hole in the headstock this is much stronger



                        And trace the headstock shape on. A standard Gibson headstock is like 3-1/4 inches at the widest point – I narrow that down to 3 so it fits my standard width board.



                        Its tempting to start carving now but I need straight square sides to make the heel and dovetail so I’ll just put this away and wait for wood….

                        (once again it looks like there is something wrong with one of the images but I sure can't see what it is. If anyone can help me I would appreciate it, otherwise I'll just keep keepin' on)

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                        • #27

                          Looks like an extra url tag.


                          Loving this thread by the way. Keep up the good work.
                          Listen...

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                          • #28
                            Wood is back, time to get moving on this thing. Here is basically what it takes to build a guitar. I buy things like kerfing and the binding cut to size - it would be a total hassle to try to make my own kerfing. Anyway, other than a few shiny parts and odds and ends, here is the wood pile



                            First thing to do is clean up the center seam edge of the top with my BFP (big flat plane), taking just the thinnest cut. The hunk of metal is my flat sanding block that I use for frets - I can get the edge pretty true with it



                            The trick to a nice tight seam is applying just enough clamping pressure. I put a piece of metal that's about 1/8 thick under the center and clamp the outside edges tight



                            When I pull the metal piece out the seam is squeezed tightly together, clamp it down with some heavy weight



                            With luck the seam will be almost invisible

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                            • #29
                              I think I should have talked a bit about the pieces of wood in that pile. The most important is the top wood - these are Lutz spruce from the great PNW. The classic American top wood from before the war was Adirondack ('red") spruce. It was used on all the great Martin and Gibsons from the Golden Era, but the forests have been so badly logged that it is very difficult to get good instrument grade wood. I've settled for some lesser quality (and paid more) for a couple of my builds, but like most everyone else I usually use Sitka spruce. Sitka is not quite as strong (usually measured as stiffness per unit mass) as Adi, but it frequently has beautiful silking and what is called "bear claw". I first heard about Lutz from a seminar by John Greven - he says it is somewhere between Adi and Sitka in terms of stiffness and it is quite reasonable in price. I bought six top sets a couple of years ago and set them away on a shelf in my wine cellar.

                              Secondly is the back and sides - these are Honduran mahogany and have some flame figure, which I thought would follow the general theme. Again, this wood has been stickered away waiting for a project like this. Here are the top and back moisten with a little alcohol to pop the figure - gives you some idea how they will look when finished (unless they get painted red...)



                              The rest of the wood in the picture consists of another mahogany neck blank, a couple of billets of spruce for braces, some ebony for headstock pickguard and binding. There is some kerfing and other internal bits - head and tail blocks - a truss rod and some fret wire. I might need some odds and ends out of the scrap box but should build a guitar.

                              Tonight I shot the seam on the back pieces and glued them up like the top



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                              • #30
                                Great lessons, Freeman. It's always a fascinating read to hear one's thinking behind these little structural tricks. I can't wait to see how the decorative stuff comes out later on.
                                Gear:
                                2013 Official Luthier's Forum Medium Jumbo (Western red cedar/mahogany)
                                2012 McKnight McUke (soprano ukulele, redwood/mahogany)
                                2010 Martin D-16GT
                                2006 Larrivee OM-03R
                                1998 Fender American Standard Stratocaster (natural ash finish)
                                1989 Kramer Stryker
                                197? Epiphone Texan FT-160N

                                Comment













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