Michael Jackson : R.I.P.

[mr.steevo]

Hi,

I was surprised to discover that in his video "Beat It" he used actual gang members from around LA to act.

When he did things he really looked at all the details.

s.

[Karma1]

Nice to see some respect being shown here.

A lot of the threads in other forums are filled with lame immature comments.

Michael was a very complex person, to say the least, with many obvious personal eccentricities. But in the music world he was a shining star. Besides his incredible music, he was an amazing dancer and performer - a true original.

[Fab4ever]

My take:

http://christopherave.wordpress.com/2009/06/25/thoughts-on-michael-jackson/

[UstadKhanAli]

 

It does not trivialize his contribution at all. MJ's contribution was immense, but he didn't arrange, produce, engineer, or perfrom the drums on his songs. And everything I said in my post about Quincy, Bruce, and the world class drummers that played on his records is also true. Who is questioning his immense talent here? We are talking about the sound of the drums on his records and who is responsible for it. And yes Quincy and Bruce have monster grooves on many of their projects (the ones in a style that called for monster grooves.) MJ did not play drums. MJ did not arrange, produce, or engineer his recorddings. So he is not responsible for the sound of the drums on them. Methinks you are both a bit touchy on this subject and posted before you comprehended what I wrote. I hope you comprehend it now.

 

 

 

I never said he arranged, produced, or engineered his recordings. I did say that he had a huge influence on them. I did quote a passage where it stated that he played drums on "Beat It".

 

I already told you that I met one of the world class drummers. Ergo, I know that he has a world-class drummer.

 

You wrote this:

 

 

MJ was a great entertainer and a pop icon, but he had nothing to do with the beat or the sound of those drums.

I believe that is wrong, especially when you consider that he played drums on one song, according to the source I quoted, and had input into every facet of how the songs sounded. He clearly had *something* to do with the beats and sounds of the drums and the sounds of his recordings - including the mixes and how the songs were arranged.

 

Methinks you are both a bit touchy on this subject and posted before you comprehended what I quoted. I hope you comprehend it now.

[rasputin1963]

Michael was a child all his life

 

 

That's how I see him, too. In the same category as a Rudolf Valentino, Vaslav Nijinsky or James Dean: Someone who, like a Krishna or Dionysus, embodied the perpetual beauties of youth.

 

 

But the perpetual beauties of youth cannot be sustained, so such figures have to die young. Even the Christ died at age 32.

[Geoff Grace]

Thank you, girevik.

Best,

Geoff

[BlueStrat]

 

That's how I see him, too. In the same category as a Rudolf Valentino, Vaslav Nijinsky or James Dean: Someone who, like a Krishna or Dionysus, embodied the perpetual beauties of youth.

 

 

 

James Dean was only 25 when he died, so it's kinda hard to include him in that category. He might have actually grown up and acted like an adult at age 50, but we'll never know.

[Jcat5150]

RIP Michael

[Gus Lozada]

Even the Christ died at age 32.

 

 

33

 

( now please shoot me for knowing that and actually posting a link to it )

 

... but before you do that, I really agree with your comment.

[Ani]

 

I believe that is wrong, especially when you consider that he played drums on one song, according to the source I quoted, and had input into every facet of how the songs sounded. He clearly had *something* to do with the beats and sounds of the drums and the sounds of his recordings - including the mixes and how the songs were arranged.

 

 

 

+1

 

According to discussions that I've been involved in where Bruce Sweiden shared his involvement in the making of The Thriller Album, IMO, Michael Jackson was the inventor of BEAT BOX music as we know it today; add that to his list of innovations. I've read where MJ would sound out the rhythms and other instruments with his voice and clapping, snapping, and tapping of hands, fingers, and feet. He just did not have the skill to translate what was inside of his head to notation on paper.

[Gus Lozada]

+1 According to discussions that I've been involved in where Bruce Sweiden shared his involvement in the making of The Thriller Album, IMO, Michael Jackson was the inventor of BEAT BOX music as we know it today; add that to his list of innovations. I've read where MJ would sound out the rhythms and other instruments with his voice and clapping, snapping, and tapping of hands, fingers, and feet. He just did not have the skill to translate what was inside of his head to notation on paper.

 

 

 

[YOUTUBE]5C5he8XQCBw[/YOUTUBE]

[Ani]

COOL CLIP, GUS!!! Thanks!!!

[styphon]

Was i the only one who liked "Dirty Diana"?

 

 

Besides Man in the mirror, this is my favorite MJ song.

 

My story

I grew up listening to lots of Elvis, Beegees, Jackson 5, Sha-na-na... Then came the time I could finally buy a tape of my own..and I got "Thriller." I also got a radio to listen to it on....I listened to it over and over until the tape wore down so much I needed to get a second copy.. Since then I have moved into heavy music, but still in my heart I wished that the old Michael most of us knew and loved would return, that somehow he would overcome his mental illness and his personal demons and return to the top to again remind us what a real star is like. But alas..

 

I wish the family well... The pain and suffering caused by losing a son, a brother, a FATHER, is unbearable and I hope they find the strength to pull through it.

 

Also, is there a charity set up for him for people wanting to respond to his death? If not, why?

[kurdy]

Interesting clips. It's easier to understand how he came up with his more harmonically simple, dance-oriented songs, but a greater mystery to me is how he came up with songs like "The Girl Is Mine", and "I Just Can't Stop Loving You". Especially the latter, which has harmonies and chord progressions that are very sophisticated. If I remember correctly, there's even a very subtle key change at the end that you almost miss if you aren't paying attention. If he did manage to come up with that all in his head, away from an instrument, then there's no question what an incredibly talented artist and composer he was.

Several sources I've read indicate that he had the gift of perfect pitch, so I suppose that may have had something to do with his adeptness at harmonies.

Or he may have had some help from musicians and arrangers to help flesh out his songs. Not ruling out that possibility, but either way doesn't change the fact that he was one exceptionally talented dude.

[Jotown]

IMO, Michael Jackson was the inventor of BEAT BOX music as we know it today; add that to his list of innovations.

And that would be incorrect becuase beatboxing had showed up in recordings since the late 70's and there is no evidence that MJ used this technique before all of the seminal rappers did.

Even in the youtube clip that Gus provided all of the examples are after 1993, ten years after Thriller, and at least 15 after beatboxing was being used in rap records. Yes MJ is very good at it, but he certainly did not invent it.

Wow. Lets just say that he invented rap, and disco, and even dancing!

MJ didn't invent the Moonwalk either. It was a signature step of a Soul Train dancer and MJ actually paid him to stop using so that he could make it his own; and he did. He also stole moves from Fred Astaire and Jackie Wilson; And theres nothing wrong with that. Just give credit where credit is due and don't give all the credit to him just because he is dead. Read Bruces book and you will learn a lot about all of the people that contributed to MJ's success.

It doesn't take anything away from him to credit those responsible for their part of his success.

[amplayer]

It does not trivialize his contribution at all. MJ's contribution was immense, but he didn't arrange, produce, engineer, or perfrom the drums on his songs. And everything I said in my post about Quincy, Bruce, and the world class drummers that played on his records is also true. Who is questioning his immense talent here? We are talking about the sound of the drums on his records and who is responsible for it. And yes Quincy and Bruce have monster grooves on many of their projects (the ones in a style that called for monster grooves.) MJ did not play drums. MJ did not arrange, produce, or engineer his recorddings. So he is not responsible for the sound of the drums on them. Methinks you are both a bit touchy on this subject and posted before you comprehended what I wrote. I hope you comprehend it now.

 

 

I can't speak for Ken, but in my case, Methinks you are correct. Sorry.

[the stranger]

 

MJ didn't invent the Moonwalk either. It was a signature step of a Soul Train dancer and MJ actually paid him to stop using so that he could make it his own; and he did. He also stole moves from Fred Astaire and Jackie Wilson; And theres nothing wrong with that. Just give credit where credit is due and don't give all the credit to him just because he is dead.

 

 

James Brown was floating across stages doing dance moves that blew people away when MJ was still a kid. How many of MJ's moves do you see here?

 

XgDrJ5Z2rKw

[Jotown]

I can't speak for Ken, but in my case, Methinks you are correct. Sorry.

No need for apologies. It seems a few people misunderstood my original post.

[jerry_picker]

sick

[Anderton]

I was standing in line at the Delta airlines counter in Denver waiting to get a flight rebooked when a lady in front of me said "My sister just texted me that Michael Jackson died."

I didn't believe it. But it was true.

Now, regarding what his input was or wasn't, I don't know. I wasn't there, I didn't know that group of people other than of course Bruce Swedien, but we tended to talk more about recording and "stuff" than Michael Jackson. However, I am pretty sure I can say that Bruce, Quincy Jones (a real gentleman, one of the best guys to interview ever), and MJ were a team. With a team, no one keep tracks of who came up with this or that. It's a team. People play off each other. One person in the team might come up with a lame idea, but the other person in the team tweaks it into something. Who's responsible? The team.

I believe no one on that team could have produced what they produced without the other people on that team.

Honestly, I was never a huge Michael Jackson fan - his music didn't reach me in the same way as many other musicians - but the quality of his projects was, on all levels, undeniable. That team left a body of work that I respect and admire, and from time to time, connect with emotionally.

As to his personal life, I suspect there are no easy answers. He was reportedly brought up by a less than sympathetic father, and then transitioned immediately into living in a fishbowl. Few of us could have coped with the life he led, and he chose whatever methods helped him cope with that life.

It was obvious MJ was extraordinarily gifted in a way that few can understand, let alone fully appreciate. He brought joy to many people, and the one indisputable fact is that he no longer will be able to do so.

He leaves behind people who truly love what he gave us, and in so doing, has provided a legacy for future generations to enjoy, or decode, or to speculate upon...each according to their own agenda.

My heart goes out to Bruce Swedien, who did so much to translate Michael's talent into tangible form. It must be tough on the Swede. You can't work with someone for that long without feeling a deep personal connection, especially someone as genuine as Bruce.

As with any death, it's those who are left behind who suffer the most. MJ has left the building, and he's not coming back.

[John Sayers]

well said Craig - as usual.

[Jotown]

I believe no one on that team could have produced what they produced without the other people on that team.

Of course. But a quarterback throws the ball, and he gets credit for that. The reciever catches the ball, and he gets credit for that. The lineman blocks for the quarterback, and he gets credit for that.

 

Of course they were a team, and of course each team member was indespensable in regards to the final product. But people should give credit to all team members and know that praising one team member takes nothing away from the others.

[John Sayers]

so ball playing is music and can be defined as such?

[Jotown]

so ball playing is music and can be defined as such?

Well John; of course it is not. The metaphor is "TEAM." Sorry to confuse you.

[John Sayers]

so ball team playing is music?