Michael Jackson : R.I.P.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Michael Jackson had probably the greatest music producer of the last half of the 20th century (Quincy Jones) and probably one the greatest recording engineers of the all time (Bruce Swedien) who hired the best studio musicians on the planet and recorded in the best recording studios in the world. He also had ridiculous budgets that allowed his engineer and producer to mix a song like Billy Jean a hundred times. MJ was a great entertainer and a pop icon, but he had nothing to do with the beat or the sound of those drums. The credit there goes to Quincy, Bruce, great drummers and the resources to put it all together. No disrespect to MJ, but that is the truth.

 

 

Michael Jackson had a lot of input into what he wanted in songs. He might have worked with really talented people (hi Geoff!), but that doesn't take away his immense talent or minimize what he wanted out of his songs. If what you say were true, then Q and Bruce Swedien would have other monster grooves in other songs that sounded like Jackson's grooves.

[slight-return]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=105942513&ft=1&f=1062

[UstadKhanAli]

Some of MJ's involvement in Thriller, not only writing songs, but determining the outcome of the album, insisting on how songs were to be and which songs would be on the album, taking an active part in the decision-making process, and playing drums.

 

 

Jackson reunited with Off the Wall producer Quincy Jones to record his sixth studio album. The pair worked together on 300 songs, nine of which were eventually included. [17] Thriller was recorded between April and November of 1982, with a production budget of $750,000. Several members of the band Toto were also involved in the album's recording and production. [17] Jackson wrote four songs for the record: " Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' ", " The Girl Is Mine " (with Paul McCartney ), " Beat It " and " Billie Jean ". [18] Unlike many artists, Jackson did not write these songs on paper. Instead, he would dictate into a sound recorder; when recording he would sing from memory. [19] [20] The relationship between Jackson and Jones became strained during the album's recording. Jackson spent much of his time rehearsing dance steps alone. [20] When the album's nine songs were completed, both Jones and Jackson were unhappy with the result and remixed every song, spending a week on each. [20] Jones believed that "Billie Jean" was not strong enough to be included on the record, but Jackson disagreed and kept it. Jones told Jackson that Thriller would be unlikely to sell successfully like Off the Wall had, because the market had since weakened. In response, Jackson threatened to cancel the album's release. [17] In one interview, Jackson said that he was inspired to create an album where "every song was a killer" and focused the basis of Thriller as to ask, "Why can't every one be like a hit song?". [21] Jones and songwriter Rod Temperton gave detailed accounts of what occurred for the 2001 reissue of the album. Jones discussed "Billie Jean" and why it was so personal to Jackson, who struggled to deal with a number of obsessed fans. Jones wanted the long introduction on the song to be shortened; however, Jackson insisted it remain because it made him want to dance. [18] Jones and Jackson were determined to make a rock song that would appeal to all tastes and spent weeks looking for a suitable guitarist for the song "Beat It", a song Jackson wrote and played drums on. Eventually, they found Eddie Van Halen of the rock band Van Halen . [18] [20]

 

[Ernest Buckley]

They always say death comes in threes, and darn if that isn't true most of the time. First Ed McMahon, then Farrah Fawcett, now MJ. R.I.P. all of them. They brought joy to a lot of people.

Yes, Farrah Fawcett brought more than joy when she was in her prime.

[Lee Knight]

I'm sitting in a little coffee house in North Coast San Diego. The kind of place that plays Marley and Dylan and Tom Waits on their box. And all it's been for the past hour is MJ. From the J5 to Bad and beyond...

 

Not the kind of music you associate with the pre-work surfer crowd or the out of work artist/dreamer we have around here. Everybody walks in and pauses... "Micheal".

 

Seems like everybody had some sort of deep connection with the guy. Whether they realized it yesterday or not, they remember today. Micheal.

[Geoff Grace]

I immediately thought of you when he passed away, Geoff .

 

 

Thank you, Ken.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Jeff da Weasel]

Oh, I queued up a bunch of MJ last night. It's a natural reaction.

 

Here's my MJ story. It's not much of a story, and doesn't have a lot to do with MJ, but it's mine.

 

I was in sixth grade, and it was the night of the first school dance of my life. I was pretty nervous. The year was 1979. I was already more into rock than pop or disco, but I definitely was interested in the opposite sex. So, I went to the dance and found that I was actually a pretty good dancer, and at least back then was a somewhat cute little kid, so I had no shortage of dance partners.

 

After awhile, the chaperones announced that there was going to be a dance contest, and immediately 3/4 of the kids cleared the floor. It was nerve wracking enough just asking each other to dance, much less be judged on it. But I thought I looked okay out there, so I asked the girl I happened to be with at that moment if she wanted to be in the contest, and she said yes. They put on a song from and album which had just come out the month before, something called Off The Wall. At the time, I knew Michael Jackson from the Jackson 5, and from the Saturday morning cartoon featuring the group. So the first song comes on... it's called "Don't Stop 'til You Get Enough", and DAMN! it's got a great beat. I start whirling my girl around and we boogie until the song ends.

 

The people running the dance pulled three remaining couples aside for the second round of the contest, and put on another tune. It's "Workin' Day and Night", and again, the beat inspired me to pull off moves I didn't know I had. As the song ended, they got back on the mic and announced me and my little chick as the winners of the contest. Guess what our prize was? We each got a copy of the Off the Wall LP!

 

Despite the fact that I was already listening to AC/DC, Aerosmith, and Van Halen, I played the hell out of that album, and when no one else was home, would put it on and dance all over the living room.

 

That's what I think of when I remember Michael Jackson. Not all the weirdness later on, not the accusations, not the surgeries, not the probability that drug use may have led to his demise. All that doesn't matter much to me. What does is remembering the feeling of dancing and being free, with my whole life ahead of me and all the energy in the world bottled inside of me.

[UstadKhanAli]

Still a cool story.

[Lee Knight]

Great story Jeff! and this bit here...

 

...the beat inspired me to pull off moves I didn't know I had.

 

Well, that just conjures up a picture doesn't it? I love it. I'm actually picturing you as I know you look today busting some serious Travolta. Great story.

[audioicon]

 

I'm not taking any sides here, just to be clear. But, you gotta do like I do, AI. Just post your two cents and leave it at that. You can make a point without an engagement that is destined to end poorly. If you would have voiced that opinion without the aggressive tone (looking for a response) and poor attitude, it would have been far more effective. You could have made the same comments with a lot more tact and people would have probably let you have your two cents without a confrontation.

 

 

I have nothing else to say regarding this matter but thanks for your great observation.

 

This thread is not about AI.

 

AI

[Lee Knight]

You know... I've been thinking about this, "criticize while they're alive, praise after they pass" thing that might be unpleasant for some.

 

With Micheal, so many of us have such a connection with the man. I know I did. Jeff's story illustrates how some one not fitting the demographic was still a fan. He was great, and it's rare, even at the height of his weirdness, that anyone would dispute that. He was great. The best. There is no best, except for him. He was.

 

So when a guy with such deep talons in our personal musical makeup goes a little south, a lot south really, it's hard not to mourn that. Mourn the passing of that Micheal, even before he actually passes. That is where a lot of that harsh criticism comes from. Micheal himself was aware of his weirdness. His family knew. His brothers addressed this first thing with the media today.

 

But now, the thing that still rings loudest, when looked at as an entire lifetime, is his music. His impact not just on a generation but on all ages of people around the world.

[UstadKhanAli]

Nice post.

[Mats Nermark]

Hi,

 

I'd like to share a memory. In 1988 I was working as a product specialist for the Swedish Akai distributor and a s such was asked by Akai (who sponsored the tour) to be the technical liaison for the Scandinavian part of the tour. I happily accepted and it was really nothing fancy. Just standing by the phone and try to help if something went wrong. In my letter to the musicians I wrote that if they had some time to spare I'd like to take them to dinner and to my surprise all three accepted so I took Greg Phillinganes, Ricky Lawson and Rory Kaplan to dinner. At dinner Ricky offer to set me up with backstage passes for me and a girlfriend if I had any. I accepted.

 

The day after I took my girl friend (our third date) to the concert and we went back stage where we were treated to a tour of the premises and Rory and Rick took us up on the actual stage between acts to walk me through the gear set up. The guys in the band I talked to had nothing but good things to say about MJ.

 

We stayed for the entire concert but we never actually met MJ as the security was something fierce.

 

Besides the fond memory this event led to two specific things. The first was that I met the SynthAxe and Synclavier player Chris Currell and he later recommended me to the Zoom Corporation when they needed Europeans to help voice a few products (I was involved in the 9030 and 9002Pro). The second was that I married this girl and we celebrated our 20th wedding anniversary in late May. I probably would have married her even if this concert hadn't happened but we share this memory.

 

 

Mats N

[WRGKMC]

I can highly Appreciate his contributions to the art of music and stage yet not indorse his personal kinky life styles to do so. (Van Gough had mental illness and history looked kindly on his artwork for many many years).

 

I am able to separate the two and choose to reject the mans lifestyle when it came to hurting children. No matter how well they may have been compensated it didnt make his actions acceptable.

 

Lets hope he is forgiven and his artwork outweighs his sins when it comes to a final judgement. RIP

[ultravibe]

Condolences to those who knew him.

To those accusing him of things, read the linked Wikipedia article, particularly the points about the accusations against him. I'm not saying he didn't have weird or abnormal relationships with children, but there is strong and credible evidence that the accusations of him being an actual pedophile were conjured for the sake of a huge payday.

As for his death, I was standing on a Metro platform yet again (the delays this week have been understandably insane...) when my wife called me, surprised and shocked. She said I didn't seem surprised - I wasn't. The man put his body through years of pretty hard abuse, be it from prescription drugs, plastic surgery, not to mention what strain his dance rehearsals/training/practice put on his body. I was actually surprised he made it to 50.

[kurdy]

My Michael Jackson story goes a little bit different than most people. I was only about 3 or 4 when Thriller came out. My mom bought the Thriller album on cassette, and I remember hearing it around the house, but I don

[halfnote]

While many looked on him as a either the cute kid or a has-been (me too sometimes) or a glib pop music performer with little substance, I suggest reviewing the lyrics to "Man In The Mirror" (already referenced) or watching the clip below & consider how many of those we respect had the nature to make those sort of statements.

He didn't create it all (since the Beatles, no one does it all) but it was his vision.

 

Black & White

(skip the beginning & roll ahead to any of these points:

1:46 mark.........4:12 mark......5:20 mark)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZI9OYMRwN1Q

 

That vid & the song behind it are, alone, enough to mark his status as a worthy artist.

[Ernest Buckley]

iTunes Music Store this morning:

Death, priceless.

[the stranger]

Lets hope he is forgiven and his artwork outweighs his sins when it comes to a final judgement. RIP

[Jotown]

Michael Jackson had a lot of input into what he wanted in songs. He might have worked with really talented people (hi Geoff!), but that doesn't take away his immense talent or minimize what he wanted out of his songs. If what you say were true, then Q and Bruce Swedien would have other monster grooves in other songs that sounded like Jackson's grooves.

Who is questioning his immense talent here? We are talking about the sound of the drums on his records and who is responsible for it. And yes Quincy and Bruce have monster grooves on many of their projects (the ones in a style that called for monster grooves.)

 

MJ did not play drums.

MJ did not arrange, produce, or engineer his recorddings.

 

So he is not responsible for the sound of the drums on them.

 

Methinks you are both a bit touchy on this subject and posted before you comprehended what I wrote. I hope you comprehend it now.

[kurdy]

And yes Quincy and Bruce have monster grooves on many of their projects (the ones in a style that called for monster grooves.)

 

 

True. I rediscovered this one right here on these forums.

 

http://vimeo.com/3080028

 

They definitely knew how to get those grooves. Not to mention the immense songwriting talent of Rod Temperton, writer of the above song, as well as "Thriller" and "Rock With You" for MJ. Of course, just to be clear, MJ wrote many of his own songs too.

[Jotown]

. Not to mention the immense songwriting talent of Rod Temperton, writer of the above song, as well as "Thriller" and "Rock With You" for MJ. Of course, just to be clear, MJ wrote many of his own songs too .

Of course he did. He was an immensely talented person. Just not the drummer, or the guy that recorded, mixed or arranged the drums on the vast majority of his records, and that is all I was talking about here.

 

This takes nothing away from his other talents.

[Geoff Grace]

MJ did not play drums. MJ did not arrange, produce, or engineer his recorddings. So he is not responsible for the sound of the drums on them.

I have no inside information about the drums on Thriller. (I began working for Michael in 1992.) But I am well acquainted with Michael's ability to do "beat box" sounds and drum patterns with his mouth, so it's not difficult to imagine him having a significant impact on the drumming of that record.

Then again, maybe he had no input at all in this area. Only the people who were there know for sure.

[YOUTUBE]Hz0wrkOT-4U[/YOUTUBE]

Best,

Geoff

[girevik]

Thriller was a big part of my childhood soundtrack. My condolences to Geoff and others here who knew him or at least worked with him.

Thriller will always be a work of art to me, even if Quincy Jones and pretty much everybody in the band Toto played on it (eg. Steve Lukather says he played on three tracks, and arranged "Human Nature").

[girevik]

Lukather's page on Thriller:
http://www.stevelukather.net/Session.aspx?id=33

Check out the studio credit he gives to MJ:

Musicians: Michael Jackson: guitar, arranger, sound effects, vocals, handclapping, producer, vocal arrangement, horn arrangements, rhythm arrangements

Note also that he gives songwriter credit to MJ for 4 tracks.