Question about action height and nut adjustments

[elsupermanny14]

I want to set the action on my LP to my own liking. Here is the dilemma I'm having. I want to lower the action on the upper frets, but the guitar buzzes a bit on the lower frets. How can I raise the action on say frets 1-5 while lowering the action on frets 12-22?

Can this be done just by adjusting the truss rod and the tail peace or do I need to get a new nut to elevate the height of the strings?

Thanks in advance guys.

[billybilly]

The first thing that says to me is that you don't have enough relief. Your neck could in fact be bending backwards. If that is the case, loosen the truss rod about an 1/8th of a rotation, leave it for half a day and lower the bridge to your liking.

[docjeffrey]

Truss rod adjustment won't solve your problem. It sounds like a new nut is in order, but if you're gonna do the work yourself, understand that it typically takes a lot of nutwork to get good at it. Don't expect miracles your first time out, and get yourself the right tools. It's probably cheaper and less frightening to just take it to a pro. Removing a nut can be tricky. You can damage the fretboard and/or the headstock if you're not careful. Get yourself a good measuring device from Stew Mac and see it the nut really needs replacement. I use one of these:

 

 

[samzadgan]

That is the exact question i had...i have been playing with my LP for a few months trying to get good action, i even got some fret dressing done...but no matter how i set the truss rod, as soon as i bring the action to a point that i like on the higher frets, the low frets start to buzz.

 

Then last week, i was at a guitar shop playing a charvel san dimas...this thing had beautiful action, and i noticed that on the 1st fret i could fit 1 pick between the string and fret wire, and at the 12th i could do just under 2 picks...so with that being my measurement i came home adjusted my action and nailed the 12th fret, and it felt great...however at the 1st fret, there was hardly any room between the fret and the string.

 

So it hit me...the nut is the problem! I believe its cut too deep, or just the height of the nut is too low.

 

And now, thanks to "Docjeffrey", you just confirmed my analysis...its off the the Guitar Tech i go.

 

I'm leaning towards getting a TUSQ nut for it...might as well, improve the nut in the process!

[WRGKMC]

Unless you're measuring the height between the 12th fret and bottom of the string

you're guessing on what might be right. Les pauls from the factory have the high E

3/64th above the 12th fret and the low E 5/64ths. The relief is checked with a straight

edge on the frets. you should be able to get a .009 feeler gauge between the straight edge and

5th to 7th frets.

 

Anything lower require perfect frets can cause issues and if you're guessing by how it feels instead of

using gauges to measure what you're doing you can really going to screw it up. Pauls have a shorter scale

so the adjustments are even finer than longer scales. Guitars are tempered instruments.

One adjustment affects another and if you arent experienced in making all the adjustments to specs

first, tweaking them differently can make an instrument unplayable.

 

If a guitars set to specs you should be adapting your playing to the instrument, not adjusting the instrument to your playing.

 

Theres no guess work involved. Use the right tools and set the right specs and other than some minor tweaking

thats specific to the instrument, its only going to be adjustable so low before you have problems.

If frets werent properly leveled, or the fretboard is bowed, you may never get it right.

 

I use a notched straight edge to make sure the fretboard is level then I level my frets to match.

If you use the frets only, you can actually have a backbowed neck if the middle frets are worn and you level it off

the frets only. Necks that are back bowed can cause buzzing, playability, intonation and tone issues.

 

Miy Paul was set 3/64 and 5/64ths from the factory with new frets.

Now that its nearly 20 years old I adjust the high E around 4/64ths so the upper strings are easire to bend.

I have recently lowered the nut to compensate for the recrowning and leveling i've done.

 

I first did it with feeler gauges and eyeballing like I had done for 40+ years but still wasnt thrilled.

Then I bought one of these a few weeks ago.

 

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Special_tools_for_Nuts_and_saddles/Nut_Slotting_Gauge.html

 

 

They're not cheap but holy cow what a difference over feeler gauges or rulers.

You can get the nut height within 1/2 of 1/100 in accuracy.

You dont think a nut is going to make a big difference untill you have them set right and it can be like night and day

for playability and setting intonation properly.

 

I been building for four decades and I'm good at doing nuts but there is a difference between good and best.

Out of the 20 plus guitars I either bought or built I only had one that was really close to where it should be.

Some were too high which I corrected with nut files and they play great now. I have a few cut too low and I'll have to

raise or replace the nuts on. Luckily I use brass on most of them so I can remove and raise a nut without cracking it.

[WRGKMC]

Oh if you find everything set to specs, then try different brands of strings.

thay can have a big factor on playability

[jpnyc]

The best thing I ever did for my strat was to pay a great tech to cut the right nut.

[photon9]

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Special_tools_for_Nuts_and_saddles/Nut_Slotting_Gauge.html They're not cheap but holy cow what a difference over feeler gauges or rulers. You can get the nut height within 1/2 of 1/100 in accuracy.

 

 

OMG that thing is amazing! I love Stewmac.

 

I would like to add, anyone that is semi-serious about setting their guitar themselves should get this:

 

Guitar Set-Up Starter Kit

 

Oh and this:

 

Guitar Player Repair Guide

[jtr654]

You could Raise the nut slightly to fix your problem. Get the nut carefully off your guitar than either a thin piece of wood/ plastic/ paper or metal in the slot put the nut back on and check if it stops the buzzing. Keep trying different thickness of shims till your buzzing stops.

[WRGKMC]

^^^ I "wouldnt" jump right on the nut being the issue right out of the box.

Les Pauls have great bone factory nuts and if anything, if he's had fret work

done, the nut may be too high vs too low. This may be why he thinks the actions too high

 

He has to at go to a hardware store and buy a 6" ruler that will measure down to 1/64ths.

Untill he gets some measurements taken its just pissing in the wind giving him any advice at all because

there are many adjustments that can cause the exact same symptoms.

 

You have to take measurements to rule what the problem isnt. Otherwise you wind up guessing him into making the problem worse.

I mean it doesnt take a rocket scientist to google up Gibson factory settings and use a ruler and feeler gauges.

If it is you shouldnt be messing with the adjustments to begin with. I feel every guitarist should be able to spec a guitar

in properly but it may be better for some to spend $50 and have it professionally done.

[WRGKMC]

 

OMG that thing is amazing! I love Stewmac. I would like to add, anyone that is semi-serious about setting their guitar themselves should get this: Guitar Set-Up Starter Kit Oh and this: Guitar Player Repair Guide

 

 

Yea its a great tool. Stu Mac is a good compan too.

The first gauge I got had a problem with the needle. It must have taken a shot and the

needle was spinning free on the shaft. I emailed them and they sent me another out right away.

I asked if they wanted the damaged one back to send me a UPS return label, but they didnt bother.

So I guess I have some spare parts if anything goes wrong with the good one.

[jtr654]

Changing nut or raising it only will work for open strings. It really sounds like you need to ajust your neck it might have a slight back bow. I take this is not a New Guitar? What stings buzz on the 1-5 frets? How long have you had this guitar and has it ever been setup the way you like?

[elsupermanny14]

 

Changing nut or raising it only will work for open strings. It really sounds like you need to ajust your neck it might have a slight back bow. I take this is not a New Guitar? What stings buzz on the 1-5 frets? How long have you had this guitar and has it ever been setup the way you like?

 

 

I really hope it's just a truss road adjustment because, I don't want to fork over cash for a new nut. The three low strings buzz on the first through firth frets. The guitar is not new, but "in like" new condition with no mods. I purchased it from a forum member a few weeks ago and have been to busy to make any adjustments. The guitar is in great shape, looks and feels brand new. Just the fret buzzing. I finally sat down last night give attention to the buzzing.

[jtr654]

If its the E/A/D string thats buzzing raise the bridge slightly till it quits. Are you in Standard Tuneing? If not that could be the problem what gauge strings are you useing . We need more Info to really help.

[poolshark]

My money's on the truss rod. At very least, measure your relief and make sure that's not the culprit. Easiest way to do this is to fret a string at the first and last frets, then use it as a cheap straight edge to check the curvature of the neck.

[elsupermanny14]

Standard tuning. Guitar came with 9s. Another reason I have not really addressed the issue until now is because I'm changing the strings to 10s.

[Darkstorm]

Your describing an instrument with uneven frets. Buzzes on lower frets and is fine for higher frets. Thta much more likely then needing a new nut.

[photon9]

Your describing an instrument with uneven frets. Buzzes on lower frets and is fine for higher frets. Thta much more likely then needing a new nut.

 

 

Not necessarily. First, with backbow the low frets i.e. the ones near the headstock will buzz, and the higher frets will be fine. My money is on a minor truss rod adjustment, as most have already stated.

[WRGKMC]

If he has the low strings adjusted too low, it also flatens the relief.

Its more likely with heavier strings, the strings werent seated at the bottom of the nut.

the guitar is hard to play so what does he do? He adjusts the bridge down and it buzzes.

 

What needs to be done is have the nut widened, (not lowered or raised) so the strings arent

pinched up out of the groves, and then have the height and intonation redone.

 

He may have to eek the truss a little tighter to compensate for the heavier gauge, but i

wouldnt even bother with that unless theres a definate issue with it being too much.

 

A quick test is to put a capo on the first fret, hold the last frets down, and pluch the string at the 7th fret.

the strings should just clear all frets. if the strings lay flat on all the frets, the necks too tight. If theres a large gap at the

5th to 7th frets, it needs tightening. The high E will have less relief than the low side.

 

If the neck is tightened till the and the High E begins to fret out, and the low side still has a larger gap, thats normal.

you cant go any farther than having the High E lay flat on all frets. I prefer to have a little gappage on the high E so

I can get my intonation set, have the height lower, and not have sour notes all over the place.

[elsupermanny14]

 

If he has the low strings adjusted too low, it also flatens the relief. Its more likely with heavier strings, the strings werent seated at the bottom of the nut. the guitar is hard to play so what does he do? He adjusts the bridge down and it buzzes. What needs to be done is have the nut widened, (not lowered or raised) so the strings arent pinched up out of the groves, and then have the height and intonation redone. He may have to eek the truss a little tighter to compensate for the heavier gauge, but i wouldnt even bother with that unless theres a definate issue with it being too much. A quick test is to put a capo on the first fret, hold the last frets down, and pluch the string at the 7th fret. the strings should just clear all frets. if the strings lay flat on all the frets, the necks too tight. If theres a large gap at the 5th to 7th frets, it needs tightening. The high E will have less relief than the low side. If the neck is tightened till the and the High E begins to fret out, and the low side still has a larger gap, thats normal. you cant go any farther than having the High E lay flat on all frets. I prefer to have a little gappage on the high E so I can get my intonation set, have the height lower, and not have sour notes all over the place.

 

 

I will try your quick test later tonight when I get home. Thanks for all of the advice guys. I really appreciate it. For the record the frets look pretty new with no flat spots or anything of the sort.

[Grant Harding]

The nut only affects the open strings and how easy it is to play on the first few frets. I'd suggest you take it to a tech and get it set up properly for your style.

[Flatspotter]

I have the StewMac nut slotting gauge, too. It's a great tool.

[Pope on a Rope]

 

The first thing that says to me is that you don't have enough relief. Your neck could in fact be bending backwards. If that is the case, loosen the truss rod about an 1/8th of a rotation, leave it for half a day and lower the bridge to your liking.

 

 

I agree it sounds like not enough relief. I disagree with the waiting for half or day part. Sometimes the truss rod binds into it's position and just loosening the nut won't be enough to make it move. When you add relief on a single action truss rod there's nothing except for the string tension to counter against the truss rod. If it is bound up, string tension alone isn't enough to make it move. Some physical persuasion may be necessary.

 

Sometimes it's easier just to loosen the truss rod nut so it spins free, apply a little persuasion to get relief and then tighten the truss to where you want it.