Members Spike Li Posted June 5, 2012 Members Share Posted June 5, 2012 Am I the only person who thought that all ebony was already streaked and therefore dyed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted June 5, 2012 Members Share Posted June 5, 2012 it's ok to praise people when they take a step in the right direction. yes, that step is a comparative drop in the bucket. but give the man credit for securing his business and supply lines while doing something positive. I'm not sure that slowing down the cutting of ebony by 90% is a drop in the bucket, anyway. I hate when people try to belittle the things people can do and have done in their own little ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockNote Posted June 5, 2012 Members Share Posted June 5, 2012 "It came to pass..." I thought it was only King James who used this phrase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveGrima Posted June 5, 2012 Members Share Posted June 5, 2012 Am I the only person who thought that all ebony was already streaked and therefore dyed? I have read that a lot of Ebony was streaked and dyed, but not all of it. I think I read that at Stew-Mac where you can get bottles of black fretboard dye to make Rosewood look like Ebony, or make streaked ebony pure black. I have only one Ebony board on my Carvin. Its really dark, pure black with no streaks at all. How can you tell if its been dyed? Nothing ever comes off on my hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted June 5, 2012 Members Share Posted June 5, 2012 Personally, I think, if you want black, you should just get a composite fingerboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted June 5, 2012 Members Share Posted June 5, 2012 Fretboards typically RETAIL for $20 a piece today. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ebony-Fretboard-/220976259800?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item33733622d8 I'm sure Bob can get them for HALF that buying wholesale in bulk. So this isn't really the emergency Bob makes it out to be. The 10 to one ratio seems exaggetrated too. Sure he might be playing the altruistic angle that all this wood is being harvested illegally (and that's why it's cheap even though it's on the verge of extinction)...but could it POSSIBLY be that he's just trying to save a few bucks on his guitars costing over a grand by guilting the public into accepting b-grade wood? NAH! I don't mind streaked ebony and I don't understand why he didn't discuss dying the wood. It's pretty permanent and deep enough that it won't wear off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted June 5, 2012 Members Share Posted June 5, 2012 If it was Henry J, I'd say yes, but dude, it's Bob Taylor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted June 5, 2012 Members Share Posted June 5, 2012 The fact of the matter is that DEFORESTATION is the reason we have problems with certain species of wood. You probably can supply the entire world's need for ebony with about 100 trees a year. that's a drop in the bucket compared to deforestation losses to agriculture and urban encroachment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted June 5, 2012 Members Share Posted June 5, 2012 And so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Help!I'maRock! Posted June 5, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 5, 2012 The fact of the matter is that DEFORESTATION is the reason we have problems with certain species of wood. You probably can supply the entire world's need for ebony with about 100 trees a year. that's a drop in the bucket compared to deforestation losses to agriculture and urban encroachment. right, so if we're looking for 100 trees, then why cut down 1000 trees to find them, and leave 900 of them to rot? take the 100, 10 of them will be black, the rest will be streaked, and stop wasting the other 900. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted June 5, 2012 Members Share Posted June 5, 2012 The way the Internet is, if someone's like, "I paid off my student loans!" they'd be like, "It's just a drop in the bucket. You haven't solved the national debt crisis." For {censored}'s sake, everybody's doing their best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hardtdc Posted June 5, 2012 Members Share Posted June 5, 2012 I think his approach is incredibly admirable and visionary. I would also have liked to hear more about a sustainability plan but he did mention the buzz word "stewardship", so I would think a forestation plan working with the local government would have to be in the works somewhere since he obviously he has built such a trusting relationship with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jkater Posted June 5, 2012 Members Share Posted June 5, 2012 my Taylor 414ce might even be on the lower end of the spectrum visually because it has some streaks in the top. but today, i'm proud to own a Taylor. Do you mean the "bear claws" in the top? That's actually a desirable thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Help!I'maRock! Posted June 5, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 5, 2012 V Do you mean the "bear claws" in the top? That's actually a desirable thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ihavenofish Posted June 5, 2012 Members Share Posted June 5, 2012 Fretboards typically RETAIL for $20 a piece today.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ebony-Fretboard-/220976259800?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item33733622d8I'm sure Bob can get them for HALF that buying wholesale in bulk.So this isn't really the emergency Bob makes it out to be. The 10 to one ratio seems exaggetrated too. Sure he might be playing the altruistic angle that all this wood is being harvested illegally (and that's why it's cheap even though it's on the verge of extinction)...but could it POSSIBLY be that he's just trying to save a few bucks on his guitars costing over a grand by guilting the public into accepting b-grade wood? NAH!I don't mind streaked ebony and I don't understand why he didn't discuss dying the wood. It's pretty permanent and deep enough that it won't wear off. i think it was just an example. ebony loss is NOT the big fight, but its a very clear example of how companies in the position to do so, CAN change the way things are done..... if they want to. in this case he was willing to accept that all ebony is no longer black in exchange for better legal forest management and a supply that will continue rather than dry up in a few years or decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Doctor49 Posted June 6, 2012 Members Share Posted June 6, 2012 I'm not sure that slowing down the cutting of ebony by 90% is a drop in the bucket, anyway.I hate when people try to belittle the things people can do and have done in their own little ways. nor was that. My point is simply to draw attention to the effects of waste in demand and consumption and its effects on the environment. The effect of loss of primary forest is a big bucket compared to the ebony issue relating to guitars, which is the debate here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Help!I'maRock! Posted June 6, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 6, 2012 and of course, I do.That was not my point.nor was that.My point is simply to draw attention to the effects of waste in demand and consumption and its effects on the environment.The effect of loss of primary forest is a big bucket compared to the ebony issue relating to guitars, which is the debate here. that's not the debate, that's your issue. and that's cool but not the point of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StringJunky Posted June 6, 2012 Members Share Posted June 6, 2012 and of course, I do.That was not my point.nor was that.My point is simply to draw attention to the effects of waste in demand and consumption and its effects on the environment.The effect of loss of primary forest is a big bucket compared to the ebony issue relating to guitars, which is the debate here. In billions of years the sun will burn out, expand, and consume us all. Where is the outrage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Doctor49 Posted June 6, 2012 Members Share Posted June 6, 2012 that's not the debate, that's your issue. and that's cool but not the point of this thread. Sorry to be unclear.I meant the point of this thread is the ebony issue, not the bigger bucket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 23miles Posted June 6, 2012 Members Share Posted June 6, 2012 I hope they're going to harvest some of the trees they've already cut down and rejected. I suspect not, I think things tent to rot rather quickly in a tropical rainforest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dr_Kuh Posted June 6, 2012 Members Share Posted June 6, 2012 Wow that was really deep actually. Makes me think if I still want to buy a Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StringJunky Posted June 6, 2012 Members Share Posted June 6, 2012 Wow that was really deep actually. Makes me think if I still want to buy a Martin. Just ask Martin if you can "upgrade" to that newfangled Streaked Ebony you've been hearing so much about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dr_Kuh Posted June 6, 2012 Members Share Posted June 6, 2012 Just ask Martin if you can "upgrade" to that newfangled Streaked Ebony you've been hearing so much about! Well yeah if I hand them enough cash they will probably do that, maybe the would even make the fretboard out of sliced unicorn horns but I didn't plan on doing so But seriously how can they still make guitars out of Spruce, Koa and Ebony? I mean yes they charge a lot for it but it's not "end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it" money. And they have not been raided (afaik) by the feds yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted June 6, 2012 Members Share Posted June 6, 2012 OK king cynic here. I totally agree with his sentiments but there are a couple of things I don't get. With all the best will in the world his philosophy will only work (from a business perspective) if he educates the market into accepting '2nd grade' Ebony at a price near or equal to the first. And this ( average) price has got to be high enough to make it worth the loggers fetching it in. So the laws of supply and demand equation will have to change in this case. If this Ebony is legal surely somebody must check on what trees are actually felled as opposed to used. The license must surely be to fell a quantity not to 'cherry pick' from felled trees to calculate the quota? I would also base my business decisions and pricing on a little more factual evidence than a chat in the forest with a few guys with a VERY vested interest. The sentiment is great. I hope it works. I just don't think it's that straightforward, but someone has to start somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundcreation Posted June 6, 2012 Members Share Posted June 6, 2012 OK king cynic here.I totally agree with his sentiments but there are a couple of things I don't get.With all the best will in the world his philosophy will only work (from a business perspective) if he educates the market into accepting '2nd grade' Ebony at a price near or equal to the first. And this ( average) price has got to be high enough to make it worth the loggers fetching it in. So the laws of supply and demand equation will have to change in this case.If this Ebony is legal surely somebody must check on what trees are actually felled as opposed to used. The license must surely be to fell a quantity not to 'cherry pick' from felled trees to calculate the quota?I would also base my business decisions and pricing on a little more factual evidence than a chat in the forest with a few guys with a VERY vested interest.The sentiment is great. I hope it works. I just don't think it's that straightforward, but someone has to start somewhere. It's a youtube video.....for customers..... First off...as many have mentioned...the price of the wood is almost completely irrelevant to the cost of the guitar. He's paying very low prices to those guys either way. The little bit more he pays for 2nd grade at the same as first is going to have virtually nothing to do with the end price the consumer pays. Secondly he's made the choice on the supply side already. People who want a Taylor are going to have to accept that some of them are going to come with ebony that has figuring. And the video is telling you why. That's why it's a great video. He's being polite..but essentially he's saying "all you {censored}ing stuck in your ways asshole guitarists out there need to wise up and realize we all need to try to make a difference". And who's to say he won't make jet black ebony and up charge for the people who want it? I think that would be a reasonable policy...don't you? As for your last couple points....I'm not really sure why you would expect to hear that kind of information on a video like that. It's beyond the scope. I mean what do you want him to do? Produce an hour long video explaining to every last detail the ins and outs of his forestry business? Sorry but most people don't have that kind of patience. I'm sure if you really wanted to know you could email him. He seems like the type who would probably respond to customer questions like that. I mean....don't get me wrong...I think guys like this should be held to task. Held to the standards they claim and pushed to go even farther. You're right to want to know these kinds of things. I just think you cynicism is kind of unfocused. It's not like any of us can answer the questions you have. We only know what you know. You should be asking him this stuff directly if you suspect he's not being genuine, not doing enough, or not being clear enough for your liking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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