Members billybilly Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 I agree, but so what? Just because they're popular doesn't make them the best. Every time I play a Strat, I end up thinking something would be better. I just don't really like how they feel, and they sound way too generic to me. I don't like them, and not everyone should. That's how subjectivity works. Saying that they're the best guitar ever is just wrong, especially if you're arguing that because they're popular or because famous players use them. Ya, but deep down, the only reason people don't like strats is they are trying to be different. It works both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PrawnHeed Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 Strats can be fine guitars, although I've still never found a Fender I would pay the asking price for, and to quote a wise man: Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willyguitar Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 What I find very GOOD in strats is the following: They are very comfortable to play (I seem to whizz around the board more with them than, say, a tele for some reason). The neck pickup is completely ace and quite unique sounding. The 'in between' sounds are also very unique, but not actually very versatile at all, because they are so immediately recognisable as smokey strat in-between sounds, which colours the tonality so clearly. I don't like those sounds too much, partly because to my ear they are a bit cliched. The (quite often maligned) bridge pickup is very similar in sound (to me) to a tele, but not quite as deep sounding. So, all in all, the ideal Fender for me would be a Tele with a strat neck pickup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bubkus_jones Posted November 4, 2012 Members Share Posted November 4, 2012 I agree, but so what? Just because they're popular doesn't make them the best. Every time I play a Strat, I end up thinking something would be better. I just don't really like how they feel, and they sound way too generic to me. I don't like them, and not everyone should. That's how subjectivity works. Saying that they're the best guitar ever is just wrong, especially if you're arguing that because they're popular or because famous players use them. No, but just because something is popular doesn't mean it sucks, either. Guitar manufacturers aren't going to spend the money on a particular guitar design just for the hell of it, especially when it's a copy of a well-known design and brings out the potential for a lawsuit (and luckily, Fender's not agressive about anything but their headstocks). They're going to manufacture one that will sell. No, they're not for everybody, but the vast majority of guitar players likely have at least one Strat or Strat clone/copy, regardless of what they normally play, and that should say something positive about the design. You may not like them, but can you really deny that the Stratocaster is one of the, if not the best guitar design? So many musicians from so many musical genres can make them work for their needs, and if a stock Strat isn't enough, their design easily allows a ton of different modifications that would be much more difficult, impractical or impossible on most other designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Folky_Grunge Posted November 4, 2012 Members Share Posted November 4, 2012 No, but just because something is popular doesn't mean it sucks, either. Guitar manufacturers aren't going to spend the money on a particular guitar design just for the hell of it, especially when it's a copy of a well-known design and brings out the potential for a lawsuit (and luckily, Fender's not agressive about anything but their headstocks). They're going to manufacture one that will sell. No, they're not for everybody, but the vast majority of guitar players likely have at least one Strat or Strat clone/copy, regardless of what they normally play, and that should say something positive about the design.You may not like them, but can you really deny that the Stratocaster is one of the, if not the best guitar design? So many musicians from so many musical genres can make them work for their needs, and if a stock Strat isn't enough, their design easily allows a ton of different modifications that would be much more difficult, impractical or impossible on most other designs. Actually, I can deny that the Strat is one of the best guitar designs. I'll acknowledge that a lot of people find the body comfortable, but the electronics are kind of dumb, at least stock. The bridge pickup doesn't have a tone control (leaving it an ice-picky mess) and you can't access the neck+bridge combination. I also find the middle pickup to be kind of unnecessary. The bridge also seems kind of poorly designed, mainly because the bridge is never really stable and if you use the tremolo, you're kind of putting stress where the bridge is screwed into the body. Yeah, at a lot of people like them, but you can't say that they're objectively the best guitar ever. Some people don't care for them, and they do have legitimate faults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bubkus_jones Posted November 4, 2012 Members Share Posted November 4, 2012 Originally Posted by Folky_Grunge Actually, I can deny that the Strat is one of the best guitar designs. I'll acknowledge that a lot of people find the body comfortable, but the electronics are kind of dumb, at least stock. The bridge pickup doesn't have a tone control (leaving it an ice-picky mess) and you can't access the neck+bridge combination. I also find the middle pickup to be kind of unnecessary. The bridge also seems kind of poorly designed, mainly because the bridge is never really stable and if you use the tremolo, you're kind of putting stress where the bridge is screwed into the body. Yeah, at a lot of people like them, but you can't say that they're objectively the best guitar ever. Some people don't care for them, and they do have legitimate faults. Most of your reasons are personal preference, and I don't care about your personal preference. I'm fine with you not liking a Strat, I just don't think it's logical to say "This isn't the greatest" simply because you don't personally like it. You don't like the tone-controll-free bridge pickup, fine. Not everyone does. However, some do like it, and for those that don't, it's a quick modification that shouldn't take you more than 20 minutes. Likewise with the bridge/neck and the all-on pickup configurations. Not liking the middle pickup is, again, personal preference. Many people ONLY use their Strats on the 2 and 4 positions, making extensive use of the middle pickup. As far as the bridge being "poorly designed", it can't be that bad, considering the number of players who use that design with few issues (you just need to take a bit to learn the best way to set it up). Even if it is, there are dozens of different aftermarket bridges you can replace it with (from higher-quality 6-screws, to 2-posts, to Floyds, to bearing-pivot bridges like the Hipshot). I'm not saying the Strat is perfect or that other guitars suck, I'm just saying that with all one can offer a player, and how modular they are (you can put just about any combination of pickups in there, with just about any controls you want; you can change it from a blues machine to a heavy metal shred machine to a chicken-pickin twanger to the king of surf guitars) that I would have to put them at the top of the heap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Folky_Grunge Posted November 4, 2012 Members Share Posted November 4, 2012 Originally Posted by bubkus_jones Most of your reasons are personal preference, and I don't care about your personal preference. I'm fine with you not liking a Strat, I just don't think it's logical to say "This isn't the greatest" simply because you don't personally like it. You don't like the tone-controll-free bridge pickup, fine. Not everyone does. However, some do like it, and for those that don't, it's a quick modification that shouldn't take you more than 20 minutes. Likewise with the bridge/neck and the all-on pickup configurations. Not liking the middle pickup is, again, personal preference. Many people ONLY use their Strats on the 2 and 4 positions, making extensive use of the middle pickup. As far as the bridge being "poorly designed", it can't be that bad, considering the number of players who use that design with few issues (you just need to take a bit to learn the best way to set it up). Even if it is, there are dozens of different aftermarket bridges you can replace it with (from higher-quality 6-screws, to 2-posts, to Floyds, to bearing-pivot bridges like the Hipshot). I'm not saying the Strat is perfect or that other guitars suck, I'm just saying that with all one can offer a player, and how modular they are (you can put just about any combination of pickups in there, with just about any controls you want; you can change it from a blues machine to a heavy metal shred machine to a chicken-pickin twanger to the king of surf guitars) that I would have to put them at the top of the heap. Guitars are all about personal preference. You don't care about mine - so what? You liking Strats isn't going to make me like them. Aren't we discussing whether something can objectively be called the best guitar design? If a lot of people don't like Strats, then it basically disqualifies it from being called the best. I think the fact that there's such a big market for mods and parts for them kind of underscores that fact; many people have to tweak Strats to get them to sound or play the way the want. Leo certainly didn't think they were the best, either, it's why he came up with totally different designs for his later guitars. As far as them being versatile, the same can be said about plenty of other guitars. Teles and ES-335s are frequently called the most versatile guitars around, for example. The simple fact of the matter is that there is no best guitar, because everyone has different preferences. Yes, Strats are popular. No, not everyone has to like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ashtray Posted November 4, 2012 Members Share Posted November 4, 2012 Originally Posted by honeyiscool Stock Teles certainly don't get quack sounds so a Tele doesn't do everything a Strat does (although maybe a Nashville Tele does, but that's complicating the issue).But he was putting it in a more general context, that Strats are ideal do everything lead/rhythm/jangle machine, because I feel that at those things, Tele has a much simpler and straightforward palette of tones. With your standard Tele, the bridge pickup gets sizzling lead sounds whether clean or dirty (Stairway to Heaven, much?), the neck pickup is a little muddy but is great for blending into the mix, and then the middle position is that bright, forward, clean sound that no stock Strat in the world will ever give you. That's why I think Tele is a better basic rhythm guitar, if by rhythm we actually mean chords. That basic single coil N+B sound that even a P90 Les Paul has, you know, plenty of warmth to go with brightness, that sound is nowhere on a stock Strat, though Strat fans will swear that the middle pickup does it. Yeah, no it doesn't. Not even close. And outside of a few genres, where you want the guitar to be really in your face, I personally think that N+B sound is way more versatile than the B+M sound. It's not as distinctive, sure, but whatever.Now if by rhythm guitar, you mean riffs, the Strat does have the more versatile neck pickup that's better for single notes compared to the Tele, so I think it does have that advantage. But I feel the middle only and the bridge only positions of a Strat sort of lack the obvious flavor that I like in my pickup positions. It's why I have always gravitated toward two-pickup guitars, because they're more straightforward.Funny enough, the sound that Strats are known for, the quack, it wasn't even supposed to be a feature of the Strat. It's something enterprising players had to discover hidden between pickup positions, it's not like the Strat was ever supposed to sound like that. Had the Tele used a different kind of a switch instead of a blade switch, the Strat probably would have inherited it and nobody would have found the quack positions. It's interesting how much of the sound of modern music is dependent on that seemingly unimportant little detail.And yeah, people disagree about this stuff all day. I do try to be objective as possible when it comes to Strats, and I've tried enough of them, and I like some of their sounds, but I say they "suck in my book" because in my opinion, they do. I don't like playing them because they're uncomfortable and lack character "in my book." I don't say they're bad for anyone else but me, but Strat enthusiasts have some desire to convince everyone that they need Strats in their lives. The way that like... Parker owners, for instance, they don't. Come on by sometime if you'd like to A/B some Strats vs Tele's vs LP vs PRS etc. Strats have their own thing going - and some of that is a floating fulcrum trem and 3 single coils. But I have Strats with vintage style trems and some blocked. I have Strats with 7 pickup config so you can choose the Neck/Bridge mix. It still sounds nothing like a Tele. And a Nashville Tele sounds nothing like a Strat - similar, but not the same. But here's the real rub - every guitar sounds 90% alike. That last 10% is critical - difference between a LP and a Strat. The next 5% even more picky - difference between a fixed vs floating bridge, or string gauge or string type (pure nickel vs others), etc etc. I watch Conan every night. Every night the guitarist has a different guitar - Tele, hollowbody, even played a Firebird X one show. I could never tell the difference in the mix. I could hear him - and he always sounded the same. I've watched other guitarists and they could play a LP in one show and a Strat in another, but have the same tone. So - that 1% or 10% variance between guitars - the guitarist can hear it, but really, most people can't. In my bedroom playing straight into a clean amp, my Strats and Tele's all sound very similar - even the $1k Tele with $300 pickups compared to my $500 Strat with stock pickups. Very similar, unless you A/B them one after the other. They will feel and play differently, but the tones are all similar - and that's before adding effects, or blending in with a band.So I'm arguing Strats sound very different than every other guitar - but that in the end ALL guitars sound the same. It's that variation in that last 1-10% of the sound that makes it mark on the guitarists' ear. That "only a Strat can sound like this!" - but in a pinch, you can get most single coil guitars to sound very similar. And with amp gain settings, you can get single coils and Humbuckers to have similar tones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ashtray Posted November 4, 2012 Members Share Posted November 4, 2012 Btw - originally Telecasters didn't have a 2 pickup combination position on the 3 way switch, just like the Strat didn't start with a 5 way. Interestingly, the LP always had a 3 way that included a blend position in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tone Deaf Posted November 4, 2012 Members Share Posted November 4, 2012 Originally Posted by Folky_Grunge I agree, but so what? Just because they're popular doesn't make them the best. Every time I play a Strat, I end up thinking something would be better. I just don't really like how they feel, and they sound way too generic to me. I don't like them, and not everyone should. That's how subjectivity works. Saying that they're the best guitar ever is just wrong, especially if you're arguing that because they're popular or because famous players use them. I never said they were the best. I said that the Strat has become the most widely used, widely recognized, defacto standard when it comes to electric guitars. And I think that's pretty hard to dispute. I'd even go so far that part of the reason they are so popular is because of their versatility, and not just dumb luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted November 4, 2012 Members Share Posted November 4, 2012 Originally Posted by sammyreynolds01 The reissues look nice. Too bad he's been playing a strat the 90's. I know - it IS too bad. I'd love to hear him play without a wammy bar again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IbanezJon Posted November 4, 2012 Members Share Posted November 4, 2012 For a start.. strat shape is soooo sexy.. the curves.. to play one sitting down.. is like the guitar is hugging you. The scale.. love 25.5. Everything else feels wrong. When I want a LPier tone.. I pick closer to the neck pickup.. sometimes even past the neck pickup. 5 way switches.. ok.. one aspect of these absolutely sucks.. when in the neck or split position.. sometimes it can be bumped while strumming.. stupid.. but the in between positions are great.Single coil pickups? Noisey.. but the neck single coil tone.. is maybe the best clean tone there is IMO. For the bridge.. humbucker much preferred.Vintage trem? These days.. I prefer them to Floyd Rose.. a good setup.. a good nut and some decent tuners.. and they stay in tune remarkably well.. but can still be downtuned easily.Pickguard? Who cares.. this is one thing where superstrats have the advantage IMO.. but the pickguard DOES look good.. or at least.. iconic/unique.Strats are awesome IMO.. I don't really understand how people can obsess over them.. and own ONLY strats.. I think that's going overboard.. but they are classic, iconic.. and all of my guitars are strats or superstrat variations. In LP vs Strat genetics of guitars.. where they all sort of branched off from there.. I am very much on the side of Strat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IbanezJon Posted November 4, 2012 Members Share Posted November 4, 2012 In terms of the sound.. it's a very thin twangy sound most of the time.. usually this isn't desired in the least.. but Strats get away with it and then some. Feel the funk.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members csm Posted November 4, 2012 Members Share Posted November 4, 2012 Originally Posted by Willyguitar all in all, the ideal Fender for me would be a Tele with a strat neck pickup. Indeed ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted November 4, 2012 Members Share Posted November 4, 2012 Originally Posted by billybilly For the most part but if you asked a "regular joe" who wasn't in the music business to draw a guitar, I bet 9 times out of 10 it would be a strat shape. I would say Les Paul moreso than a Strat for people that don't actually play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fretmonster Posted November 4, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 4, 2012 Eric Clapton who was known for playing a number of different electrics said this about the Strat "about as close to perfect as a guitar (electric) can be". Is there a guitar that is more touch sensitive? So easy to dig in to the strings either with a pick or fingerstyle for different effect. I can't think of another model of guitar that has contributed to so many trademark sounds. The neck pickup, placed exactly at the 24th fret harmonic, was the darling of Hendrix, SRV and Eric Johnson to name a few - three completely different styles. The lead pickup with reverb led to the sounds of Dick Dale, Hank Marvin, and The Ventures among others (Beachboy rhythms). Jeff Beck amped it up (primarily with the lead) added some pinch harmonics and agressive claw picking for his sound. David Gilmour who on lead again added distortion and echo to create, once again, a new signature iconic lead sound. Then there's Clapton and Knopffler that made a living (for the most part) in the notch positions. I agree with Clapton, though the Strat is close to 60 years old, still the most close to perfect design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted November 4, 2012 Members Share Posted November 4, 2012 Originally Posted by Willyguitar What I find very GOOD in strats is the following: They are very comfortable to play (I seem to whizz around the board more with them than, say, a tele for some reason). The neck pickup is completely ace and quite unique sounding. The 'in between' sounds are also very unique, but not actually very versatile at all, because they are so immediately recognisable as smokey strat in-between sounds, which colours the tonality so clearly. I don't like those sounds too much, partly because to my ear they are a bit cliched. The (quite often maligned) bridge pickup is very similar in sound (to me) to a tele, but not quite as deep sounding. So, all in all, the ideal Fender for me would be a Tele with a strat neck pickup. Other than the part where Strats are comfortable to play (the body shape is, but the combination of bridge + volume knobs + pickup selector isn't, for me), I pretty much agree with this 100%. The neck pickup on a Strat is its strong point. I would add that my perfect Fender is a thinline Tele with a Strat neck pickup. We're assuming no Mustang or Jaguar in this conversation, right? Because my actual favorite would be a 6 and a half pound Jaguar with Mustang pickup configuration, Mastery bridge, Jaguar trem, a 4-way Tele switch, and no rhythm circuit. Originally Posted by billybilly Ya, but deep down, the only reason people don't like strats is they are trying to be different. It works both ways. Please don't be ridiculous. I like Teles and LPs. I've had more Strats than I've had Mustangs and I just don't like Strats very much, and I wish that wasn't the case... because Strats are cheaper. But I'm objective enough to see that Strats have good sounds, so I put Strat pickups in my Mustangs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted November 4, 2012 Members Share Posted November 4, 2012 Originally Posted by fretmonster Eric Clapton who was known for playing a number of different electrics said this about the Strat "about as close to perfect as a guitar (electric) can be". Is there a guitar that is more touch sensitive? So easy to dig in to the strings either with a pick or fingerstyle for different effect. I can't think of another model of guitar that has contributed to so many trademark sounds. The neck pickup, placed exactly at the 24th fret harmonic, was the darling of Hendrix, SRV and Eric Johnson to name a few - three completely different styles. The lead pickup with reverb led to the sounds of Dick Dale, Hank Marvin, and The Ventures among others (Beachboy rhythms). Jeff Beck amped it up (primarily with the lead) added some pinch harmonics and agressive claw picking for his sound. David Gilmour who on lead again added distortion and echo to create, once again, a new signature iconic lead sound. Then there's Clapton and Knopffler that made a living (for the most part) in the notch positions. I agree with Clapton, though the Strat is close to 60 years old, still the most close to perfect design. Of course, it is nearly unanimous that people like Eric's Gibson tones much better than his Strat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willyguitar Posted November 4, 2012 Members Share Posted November 4, 2012 Originally Posted by honeyiscool Other than the part where Strats are comfortable to play (the body shape is, but the combination of bridge + volume knobs + pickup selector isn't, for me), I pretty much agree with this 100%. The neck pickup on a Strat is its strong point. I would add that my perfect Fender is a thinline Tele with a Strat neck pickup. We're assuming no Mustang or Jaguar in this conversation, right? Because my actual favorite would be a 6 and a half pound Jaguar with Mustang pickup configuration, Mastery bridge, Jaguar trem, a 4-way Tele switch, and no rhythm circuit. However, now I am completely confused by your ideal Fender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members genesis3 Posted November 4, 2012 Members Share Posted November 4, 2012 Oh,didn't you get the memo? it's already been shown to be essential: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/...s-Stratocaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willyguitar Posted November 4, 2012 Members Share Posted November 4, 2012 Originally Posted by csm Indeed ... Was ist das??!! And where can i get one? (or, he says naively, can I just plonk a strat pickup into a tele body... will it be in exactly the right place, etc (24th harmonic positn, etc)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steadfastly Posted November 5, 2012 Members Share Posted November 5, 2012 Strats have no equal? Bunk. Most professional guitar players have all different kinds of guitar because they produce different sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Help!I'maRock! Posted November 5, 2012 Members Share Posted November 5, 2012 fuqastrat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Floyd Rosenbomb Posted November 5, 2012 Members Share Posted November 5, 2012 Hipsters strike again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Canadian Jeff Posted November 5, 2012 Members Share Posted November 5, 2012 All guitars rule./thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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