All hard rock is the same.

[Consume]

Most metal heads didn't know what to make of VoiVod - they are awesome musicians, but their music was so experimental (or should that be experiMENTAL) that they just didn't get as far as they should have. When they released Nothingface (the CD that Pink Floyd's "Astronomy Domine" is on) they had gotten extremely tight, and they cleaned up their sound and that made them much more accessible to a wider audience.

 

Incidentally, Jason Newsted left the band I previously posted - Flotsam and Jetsam - to join VoiVod after he quit Metallica.

[1001gear]

That's past music into evil noise

 

Metal proggy death core (?)

[Consume]

 

i'd say cream is rock, imo. can't be categorized with zep and sabbath, etc.

 

 

 

I don't know man, I played in a band that did really heavy versions of "Tales of Brave Ulysses" and "White Room" (I intend to get the guys together and record them just to stick out there on Youtube.) I think if Cream had beefed up their sound a bit more, those two songs would definitely qualify in the same category as Zeppelin.

 

 

I find it sad that people always skipped over Paice for Bonham, but in my mind - while Bonham had that big bombastic sound, I think Ian Paice is actually a much,much better drummer - his snare rolls and his entire approach to the kit is so much more precise and...well... I don't know how to describe it other than crisp, there is a fluidity and precision that I just don;t hear in Bonham's playing - sort of like Pace is in the middle between Bonham and Peart as far as style goes.. I think Bonzo was a much more primal player - and that struck a chord in a lot of people. As a teenager, it was Bonham that I emulated, but as an adult, I look back and wish I had spent more time trying to learn what Paice was doing because I would have fared better as a drummer being able to pull off all that tight snare work.

[1001gear]

That's the competence argument we had back there. Paice may be more accurate technically but In those terms, he's way off the mark with the drum parts. To me, it's the balls that count.

[fusionfunk]

 

Paice may be more accurate technically but In those terms, he's way off the mark with the drum parts.

 

 

You are out of your friggin' mind. Bonham wasn't fit to carry Ian's stick bag. Not even close. I love Zep's music, and I dig some of Bonzo's 'gimmicks', but man for man, drummer for drummer, Bonzo was a neanderthal compared to the refinement of Paice.

[cdawg]

 

I don't know man, I played in a band that did really heavy versions of "Tales of Brave Ulysses" and "White Room" (I intend to get the guys together and record them just to stick out there on Youtube.) I think if Cream had beefed up their sound a bit more , those two songs would definitely qualify in the same category as Zeppelin.

 

 

but they didn't. if my aunt had balls, she'd be a freak. or something like that.

[Drumstix101]

You are out of your friggin' mind. Bonham wasn't fit to carry Ian's stick bag. Not even close. I love Zep's music, and I dig some of Bonzo's 'gimmicks', but man for man, drummer for drummer, Bonzo was a neanderthal compared to the refinement of Paice.

 

 

Both Paice and Bonham are favorites of mine (along with Mitchell and Baker) and I don't usually don't compare drummers from different bands. However I do believe that technically Paice is the better drummer.

In this case, I believe that each band; Purple and Zepp; would be completely different bands if the were founded with the opposite drummers. I also believe that neither band would be as successful if Paice was the drummer for Zeppelin and Bonham started with Deep Purple.

What do you think about these bands with swapped out drummers?

[kmart]

In this case, I believe that each band; Purple and Zepp; would be completely different bands if the were founded with the opposite drummers. I also believe that neither band would be as successful if Paice was the drummer for Zeppelin and Bonham started with Deep Purple.

 

 

I don't think you can simplify it down to being 'as successful' or not...

I am no Paice expert, but I think it's safe to say you could talk similarly about DP as Zep in that regard:

 

What I believe is undeniable is that without Page, Plant, Jones OR Bonham, Zep would not have been what it was, period.

Not just in terms of success, but larger and broader: impact, longevity, influence, whatever other intangibles...like them or not, feel it's justified or not, they are on of the most massively resonant bands of all time....nearly Beatles or Stones-like in that regard.

 

No Bonham means nobody is talking about Zeppelin in this thread, most likely...be he an unrefined neaderthal player or not.

[1001gear]

 

You are out of your friggin' mind. Bonham wasn't fit to carry Ian's stick bag. Not even close. I love Zep's music, and I dig some of Bonzo's 'gimmicks', but man for man, drummer for drummer, Bonzo was a neanderthal compared to the refinement of Paice.

 

 

Haha. Refinement indeed.

 

LCnebZnysmI

 

Not even restraint.

[fusionfunk]

Not even restraint.

Great band, great album, great musicians, and a great song. And your point is?
In typical fashion with regard to most of your posts, I have no friggin' idea where you are going with this.

[fusionfunk]

 

Both Paice and Bonham are favorites of mine (along with Mitchell and Baker) and I don't usually don't compare drummers from different bands. However I do believe that technically Paice is the better drummer. In this case, I believe that each band; Purple and Zepp; would be completely different bands if the were founded with the opposite drummers. I also believe that neither band would be as successful if Paice was the drummer for Zeppelin and Bonham started with Deep Purple. What do you think about these bands with swapped out drummers?

 

Well, that's an interesting concept. I think about Paice and Bonham like horses. Ian is a Thoroughbred race horse. John was a Clydesdale. Both are important breeds, but very different. I feel that Ian could easily play anything John was capable of coming up with, but the reverse is absolutely not true. I love them both, but they are simply not in the same league. As far as switching bands, I think Zep would have been better for it, (but different), and Purple would have been worse for it, because I think Bonham would have brought down, or held back the other members of the band, who are all stellar musicians in their own right. It would remind me of when ELP became Emerson, Lake and Powell. Now, I LOVE Cozy Powell, but he was a horrible fit for ELP, and no where close to the abilities of Palmer, and therefore held back Emerson and Lake, because they couldn't write music with the same style and intensity, because Powell could not pull it off. I think the same would have happened with Bonham in Purple.

[JMR]

sux

[jenksdrummer]

Rock Music drumming is all relatively simple and interchangable.

 

What makes it interesting / different from song to song, are the starts, stops, changes, and accents.

 

Want boring? Try Rap or Country...

[cdawg]

 

Rock Music drumming is all relatively simple and interchangable. What makes it interesting / different from song to song, are the starts, stops, changes, and accents. Want boring? Try Rap or Country...

 

 

man , i've heard some kick-ass country drumming.

[Johnny Ostinato]

 

Well, that's an interesting concept. I think about Paice and Bonham like horses. Ian is a Thoroughbred race horse. John was a Clydesdale. Both are important breeds, but very different. I feel that Ian could easily play anything John was capable of coming up with, but the reverse is absolutely not true. I love them both, but they are simply not in the same league. As far as switching bands, I think Zep would have been better for it, (but different), and Purple would have been worse for it, because I think Bonham would have brought down, or held back the other members of the band, who are all stellar musicians in their own right. It would remind me of when ELP became Emerson, Lake and Powell. Now, I LOVE Cozy Powell, but he was a horrible fit for ELP, and no where close to the abilities of Palmer, and therefore held back Emerson and Lake, because they couldn't write music with the same style and intensity, because Powell could not pull it off. I think the same would have happened with Bonham in Purple.

 

 

As a side note: According to Aynsley Dunbar he was offered the Zeppelin gig before Bonham but had to turn it down due to other commitments. I love Bonham but Dunbar would have been killer.

[jenksdrummer]

 

man , i've heard some kick-ass country drumming.

 

 

The same can be said of all genres, but overall, I'd have to stand by my original statement - basically you'll find exceptions, but overall, hard rock drumming isn't all that exciting. Even death-metal/black metal, etc...drum parts are boring. Technically and physically difficult, yes, but overall, just flat uninspiring junk.

 

Keep It Simple Stupid is a great approach - sometimes the more simple the song, the more successful it will be.

 

Same could be said of cover bands - you can have a group of fantastically gifted musicians that can play the most technical music that all the other musicians would appreciate and be in awe of - yet, they can't get booked because girls can't dance to it.

 

What's the drum beat that makes them dance?

 

It's around 112 tempo, 1/4s on the bass drum, the snare on 2+4, hi-hat to taste.

[JMR]

1. No one in this thread listens to any black metal but me. Let's just lay that to rest.

2. All ____ is the same. It's all relative. All Western music is essentially the same.

3. All-Ages shows or bust. Bar shows are dumb and I refuse to ever play one ever period. What's the point of music if only certain people are allowed to enjoy it, for no reason other than their birthdate?

[SeniorBlues]

 

What's the drum beat that makes them dance? It's around 112 tempo, 1/4s on the bass drum, the snare on 2+4, hi-hat to taste.

 

 

How about the snare on 2+4, eights on the ride, kick on 1+3 but also KICK ACCENTS WITH THE BAND? The advent of four on the floor killed R&R for me.

[cdawg]

 

1. No one in this thread listens to any black metal but me. Let's just lay that to rest. 3. All-Ages shows or bust. Bar shows are dumb and I refuse to ever play one ever period. What's the point of music if only certain people are allowed to enjoy it, for no reason other than their birthdate?

 

 

first of all...huh???

second, i'm a fan of black metal, so lay that to rest.

third, HUH??

finally, what does black metal or all ages/bar shows have to do with any of this thread??

[kmart]

 

What's the point of music if only certain people are allowed to enjoy it, for no reason other than their birthdate?

 

 

So that I have something to play somewhere that I know won't be chock full of dumb angry emo/screamo retards who think they know anything about anything?

[1001gear]

^Nice to see so many of you have read the title!^

 

 

Great band, great album, great musicians, and a great song. And your point is? In typical fashion with regard to most of your posts, I have no friggin' idea where you are going with this.

 

 

but srsly...

 

The question I ask is not can they play drums (?) They're all pros in working bands. I'm asking what is the music/rhythm - the feel; and are they playing it?

 

Paice is playing drums. Zips by all but the most general moments. You do know beat x in bar x to beat y in bar y somewhere yonder constitutes a rhythm (?) and that these locations help define the architecture of the feel ?

[JMR]

 

first of all...huh??? second, i'm a fan of black metal, so lay that to rest. third, HUH?? finally, what does black metal or all ages/bar shows have to do with any of this thread??

 

 

It has to do with all threads!!!

 

Black Metal fandom off BEGIN.

[JMR]

 

So that I have something to play somewhere that I know won't be chock full of dumb angry emo/screamo retards who think they know anything about anything?

 

 

So, you don't want anyone to see your music (and possibly like it) unless they fit into an improved niche? And I'm the supposed hipster emo garbage guy.

[knightvalin]

^Nice to see so many of you have read the title!^ but srsly... The question I ask is not can they play drums (?) They're all pros in working bands. I'm asking what is the music/rhythm - the feel; and are they playing it? Paice is playing drums. Zips by all but the most general moments. You do know beat x in bar x to beat y in bar y somewhere yonder constitutes a rhythm (?) and that these locations help define the architecture of the feel ?

1001: Maybe I should ask the base level question: to you, what defines ' Hard Rock' and therein lies its predictability?

I'm not being sarcastic here, I'm truly curious. You started this thread with the statement ' all hard rock drumming is the same' , and when I posted several examples, you answered 'no no no no' or words to that effect. Now, I AGREE with you in the sense that all 'hard rock' is the same because its based on the time honoured heavy backbeat 1/3, 2/4, with eights on the hats or ride. But, to make a statement like that which, to me, blankets all of the 'Hard Rock' drummers with the same brush? we got a problem here.

There were various levels of technical abilities in the first wave of ' Hard Rock' drummers, all the usual suspects (Bonham, Paiste, Dunbar, Baker, The brothers Appice) through the 80s Grad Classes, The 90s Grungers (who should be honoured simply for bring REAL sounding drums back to records) up to the Proto Technicans you hear today. To say that what Bonham did in Zep is the same that Paice did ( and still does) with DP doesn't compute. That's like switching Nico McBrain and Alex Van Halen; Both played ' Metal' , but different branches of the same tree.

I think ( and correct me if I'm wrong here - I know you will:thu:) what the question is about is while the basics are the same, what the individual did or does within the framework of their particular part of the Metal Family Tree is what gives the music that particular individuality. that's a very Jazz approach to music. They take the Great American Songbook, and every soloist imagineable puts their own spin on those timeworn songs, but they bring their own interpretation, which is what makes it work.

I dunno, this is too much thinkin late at night for me. I'll read your riposte in the morning, till then, have at it:thu::thu:

PEACE

[knightvalin]

1001:

 

 

 

Monster Truck : I Am Freedom

 

 

 

Monster Truck: Runnin...

 

Love Attack:

 

 

 

BTW...have seen these guys live and they're absolutely a kick ass take no prisoners unit. I am expecting them to be the Next Big Thing in the next couple years...watch out for 'em....

 

PEACE