Keyboard players - why so hard to find?

[tucktronix]

 

Originally Posted by guido61

Hmmm just looked one up. They look VERY cool. They start at $2K though...

might have to look for an older used model. But I'm starting to get that "I GOTTA have one of those" vibes running through me....

 

Yep, they are pretty expensive. The bass player always tries to talk me into getting one. If you go to the keyboard forum on the MusicPlayer website http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthr...eyboard_Corner and search on 'muse receptor', you will find a long thread on it. I would check that page first.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Originally Posted by tucktronix

Yep, they are pretty expensive. The bass player always tries to talk me into getting one. If you go to the keyboard forum on the MusicPlayer website http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthr...eyboard_Corner and search on 'muse receptor', you will find a long thread on it. I would check that page first.

 

Thanks for the link. I'll check that out. Not gonna rush out and get one though. Got other things to spend money on first: more lighting, in-ear monitor system, and my wife is getting on me about re-doing the back deck.

Seems a bit pricey for what it does. But that might be lack-of-competition Maybe somebody else will come out with something soon that will compete with it.

[P. Wallace]

 

Originally Posted by Sausagetime

your eyes are bigger than your stomach. if its near impossible to find a keyboardist as a volunteer, then you gotta pay a pro as other said...or sequence the stuff live

or....keep your keyboard heavy tunes just as a recording project and write tunes based around the instruments you can and do have for live performances.

 

Backing tracks, its not as shameful as some "purist snobs" will lead you to believe.

[tucktronix]

 

Originally Posted by DevilRaysFan

It may have been the settings on the guy's rig, his interface, and/or the particular patches. There are plenty of patches I dont care for, too

 

You really should check out the YouTube vids for the Ventilator. It is an effects stomp-box modeled after a Leslie 122. Here is one with Dr. Lonnie Smith playing his B3 patched through a Ventilator into a Hartke 15" amp. My CX3 sounds killer through it...

[rhat]

 

Originally Posted by coyote-1

I'm not really a keyboardist, though I have learned to muddle through on them. I can do some challenging stuff, if given time to learn.

I got fired by a band because I couldn't instantly do all the keyboard parts plus the horn parts plus some guitar parts PLUS sing harmonies in a bunch of Motown/funk tunes. It took two trained keyboardists to replace me, and the band fizzled within two months of that anyway. I was kinda relieved because I originally signed on only to help them make a demo video of five songs - next thing I know, there are 300 songs I have to learn

Yeah, the demands on keyboard players can be intense.

 

You cant make them all happy ,, and with some bands no one can make them happy. they were expecting alot from a new guy. there are guys that can come right in and do it , but they dont come cheap and they all tend to be real happy where they are,, Ususally because it took them a good while to learn to juggle all that stuff and they had to work up to it on the job. Starting over with a new band would be a ton of work.

[Miket156]

DevilRaysFan:

Thanks for your post. I know that as time goes on, laptops and soft synths will improve. I have read a number of posts of all the time it takes to put a laptop rig together, but that is going to vary depending on how complex you want it too be. The more you demand of any system, the more time it takes to tweak the system to get everything to work AND sound great.

I don't think its an issue with a laptap being dependable, my biggest concern has always been with making products that were written by different companies behave properly together. I would hope with the expansion of capabilities of computers that there would be less of a problem with inadequate resources and running into problems during a live show because something doesn't work in the middle of a song, or the system locks up, etc.

The one thing about hardware synths is that I can turn it on and it plays, first time every time. I have my motif ES8 user patches setup where I can easily find things (master mode or song mode on my ES8) and arrange the user banks so that I can call up sounds instantly and play. I don't have to worry about upgrade paths. Of course, at some point a hardware synth becomes obsolete. It will always play, (at least theoretically) but with the on going improvements in musical instruments any KB will reach a point that it will be replaced by a later model.

I do quite a bit of music related functions on my desktop PC, but I still don't run my KB rig with a stand alone computer for sound. I don't know that I will ever reach the stage where I will want to put the time into putting together a laptop and controller system, I'd much rather just play music.

Cheers,

Mike T.

[wades_keys]

Hardware keyboards tend to have some technical advantages that benefit reliability.

They often run RISC CPU's with low transistor counts, which reduces the need for fans, giant heat sinks, and specially designed ventilation schemes while increasing reliability in the field.

They often contain no moving parts such as fans or hard drives.

The O/S's are often built on top of robust embedded platforms such as VxWorks, which are measurably more reliable than any consumer grade operating system, including Linux.

The embedded software is single purpose and often written in low level languages that take maximum advantage of hardware resources.

Most importantly, the onboard o/s's are "real time", allowing them to service external inputs with guaranteed minimum latencies.

[Miket156]

Wade keys:

You make some excellent points about hardware instruments. I have my Motif ES8 almost 6 years and since I installed the last OS update that Yamaha put out for it 3 years ago, I haven't had any kind of glitch doing any operation on my workstation. I use the sequencer, sampler, and internal drum machine to create songs, and I have loaded other sound libraries that are for the ES series as well as WAV files from a number of different resources and the majority of them work fine and can be manipulated to my liking.

I have NEVER had any kind of a failure on a gig in the 6 years I've owned this KB. I like that level of reliability....its been 100%. Can't beat that.

Cheers,

Mike T.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Originally Posted by Miket156

I have NEVER had any kind of a failure on a gig in the 6 years I've owned this KB. I like that level of reliability....its been 100%. Can't beat that.

 

Yep. Working on 9 years with my original Motif 6 and the only failure I ever had was it overheating once and wigging out when the direct sun was beating down on it. (The metal case looks slick and all, but heats up pretty fast in the sun...)

And even then, it was fine afterwards. I was almost certain that would have caused some permanent damage. And it's taken it's share of beatings too along the way.

I keep thinking I'm going to replace it with an XS or something else one day, but as long as it keeps working and sounding great....

[tucktronix]

 

Originally Posted by guido61

Yep. Working on 9 years with my original Motif 6 and the only failure I ever had was it overheating once and wigging out when the direct sun was beating down on it. (The metal case looks slick and all, but heats up pretty fast in the sun...)

And even then, it was fine afterwards. I was almost certain that would have caused some permanent damage. And it's taken it's share of beatings too along the way.

I keep thinking I'm going to replace it with an XS or something else one day, but as long as it keeps working and sounding great....

 

After going on 10 years of gigging with the Yamaha S80, I've recently upgraded to a Korg SV-1. The Yamaha now sits in my music room as a practice board and only used for gigs with the jazz-fusion band. I have Reason 3.0 on my desktop PC and use it quite often, but have no plans to run it on a laptop live. Right now(with the Korg SV-1 & CX-3), IMO I have the best-sounding setup I've ever owned

[Outkaster]

 

Originally Posted by Miket156

Judging by your post that quoted in my initial post, I thought you were something other than a KB player, my mistake.

Sure, an aspiring KB player can buy a used Motif to get started playing in a band. But that

[Vito Corleone]

 

Originally Posted by tucktronix

I've recently upgraded to a Korg SV-1. :

 

How does that board work as a midi controller? And how good is the organ? My dream setup is to have a killer synth/workstation on top and a great "vintage" keyboard/organ board on the bottom that is also a good midi controller for my rack gear. I looked at the Nord Electro for a while--good sounds, but a {censored}ty controller. So I'm using a dedicated controller as my bottom board and midi'ing to a variety of stuff to get the sounds I want: I get an acoustic piano sound I like by layering sounds from my Proteus 2000 and JV1080 modules; I get pretty good organ sounds from the B3 card inside the Proteus and running it through a Dynacord 222 leslie simulator; I still prefer the EP sounds in the Motif to anything I can get from my modules, but I can't easily access those sounds from the controller.

So while it all WORKS, it could still be better.

[Miket156]

 

 

 

 

 

by Outkaster:

That

[tucktronix]

 

Originally Posted by guido61

How does that board work as a midi controller? And how good is the organ? My dream setup is to have a killer synth/workstation on top and a great "vintage" keyboard/organ board on the bottom that is also a good midi controller for my rack gear. I looked at the Nord Electro for a while--good sounds, but a {censored}ty controller. So I'm using a dedicated controller as my bottom board and midi'ing to a variety of stuff to get the sounds I want: I get an acoustic piano sound I like by layering sounds from my Proteus 2000 and JV1080 modules; I get pretty good organ sounds from the B3 card inside the Proteus and running it through a Dynacord 222 leslie simulator; I still prefer the EP sounds in the Motif to anything I can get from my modules, but I can't easily access those sounds from the controller.

So while it all WORKS, it could still be better.

 

If you're looking for a solid MIDI controller, best to look elsewhere. The SV-1 is a performance keyboard with minimal MIDI implementation. The organ isn't the best either. In my rig, it's being used solely for el/ac pianos and clavs. I have a dedicated B3 clone(connected to a Ventilator leslie sim), so my organ sounds are well covered. If I were you, I would look into a keyboard MIDI controller, like an M-Audio Oxygen series, or an Akai MPK.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Originally Posted by tucktronix

If you're looking for a solid MIDI controller, best to look elsewhere. The SV-1 is a performance keyboard with minimal MIDI implementation. The organ isn't the best either. In my rig, it's being used solely for el/ac pianos and clavs. I have a dedicated B3 clone(connected to a Ventilator leslie sim), so my organ sounds are well covered. If I were you, I would look into a keyboard MIDI controller, like an M-Audio Oxygen series, or an Akai MPK.

 

The M-Audio Oxygen is only a 61 key keyboard. And the Akai isn't even that. Not really a live controller, IMO.

I use a Roland A-37 controller now. Which I like for the most part. (I like the action, like the 76-key keyboard, like that it's very lightweight. Don't like that it only has a 3-digit readout and that with every program change the volume goes back to "10" regardless of where I have the slider or foot pedal set.)

I'd like to upgrade to something with an organ sound that is at least as good as what I have now that works as a good controller and doesn't weigh 35 pounds. Nobody's made one yet, apparantly.

[Miket156]

 

by guido61:

I'd like to upgrade to something with an organ sound that is at least as good as what I have now that works as a good controller and doesn't weigh 35 pounds. Nobody's made one yet, apparently.

 

I can see that you never had to move a Hammond.

You also mentioned that the M-Audio is "only" 61 keys. That tells me that you want something more than organ sounds. Organs, whether single or dual manual are all 61 keys. What else are you planning to use it for?

Mike T.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Originally Posted by Miket156

I can see that you never had to move a Hammond.

 

Uhhhhh...heavy keyboards of the past is WHY I don't want them now. Not because I'm somehow spoiled by modern gear.

I moved a Helpinstill Roadmaster piano back in the day. It weighed about 240 lbs, IIRC, does that count? I've had enough of heavy gear. Completely pointless in this modern age, IMO. My Motif is heavy enough, and carries its weight. I was using an SY77 as a controller for awhile, but since I wasn't using any of the internal sounds, it was just way too heavy for what I was getting out of it.

 

You also mentioned that the M-Audio is "only" 61 keys. That tells me that you want something more than organ sounds. Organs, whether single or dual manual are all 61 keys. What else are you planning to use it for?

 

Piano. EP. I use a 76-key controller now. As I said, I was looking at the Nord Electro, but it's not a very good controller. But something like that, or the Korg board the other poster is using, with some good "basic" sounds internally (better than what I'm getting now from my rack gear, otherwise, there's no point in upgrading) is about the only upgrade I'd make right now.

[Miket156]

That just goes to show how spoiled most us have become!

My Motif ES8 is about 62 lbs and the case is about as heavy. Its a bear to move myself. Steps are so much fun.

So are you looking for a controller with semi-weighted action as a compromise for both organ and EP playing on the same board?

Cheers,

Mike T.

[rhat]

 

Originally Posted by Miket156

That just goes to show how spoiled most us have become!

My Motif ES8 is about 62 lbs and the case is about as heavy. Its a bear to move myself. Steps are so much fun.

So are you looking for a controller with semi-weighted action as a compromise for both organ and EP playing on the same board?

Cheers,

Mike T.

 

I played everything in the store when I went out to re gear up after years out of bands. I ended up with a RD300sx stage piano. Nice action that was half way between a piano and an organ ,,, decent piano, rhodes, and organs... and enough other stuff to get you by . Sub 40 pounds and 88 keys

Is it gods gift to keyboards,, na but it sure kicks ass for a guy thats looking for a full stage piano thats light and has decent action for both piano and organ. I believe in keeping my rig simple ,, so this roland is the cats ass for that. I play keys in the house band for a jam night ,, so a simple board that any guest can just punch up the tone he is looking for was a must, ease of setups is outstanding on this board. Its may not be great for guys who like to tinker ,, but for players that like to punch a button an go ,, its ideal.

[entertainment9]

 

Originally Posted by rhat

I played everything in the store when I went out to re gear up after years out of bands. I ended up with a RD300sx stage piano. Nice action that was half way between a piano and an organ ,,, decent piano, rhodes, and organs... and enough other stuff to get you by . Sub 40 pounds and 88 keys

Is it gods gift to keyboards,, na but it sure kicks ass for a guy thats looking for a full stage piano thats light and has decent action for both piano and organ. I believe in keeping my rig simple ,, so this roland is the cats ass for that. I play keys in the house band for a jam night ,, so a simple board that any guest can just punch up the tone he is looking for was a must, ease of setups is outstanding on this board. Its may not be great for guys who like to tinker ,, but for players that like to punch a button an go ,, its ideal.

 

em, you might be right

[rhat]

 

Originally Posted by entertainment9

em, you might be right

 

Dont know if i am right ,, but I know what works for me. travel light play hard

[voodoochild89]

 

Originally Posted by rhat

Dont know if i am right ,, but I know what works for me. travel light play hard

 

That's very true for me. While I'd love using a piano with fully weighted keys, my Roland Juno is so small and light (only like 10lbs) that it's incredibly easy to gig with.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Originally Posted by Miket156

That just goes to show how spoiled most us have become!

My Motif ES8 is about 62 lbs and the case is about as heavy. Its a bear to move myself. Steps are so much fun.

 

Yeah, that's why I'm not interested in 88-key controllers. 76 keys is plenty. But they are becoming a rarer and rarer breed.

 

So are you looking for a controller with semi-weighted action as a compromise for both organ and EP playing on the same board?

 

Yep. That's what I use now. I'm pretty happy with the action of my semi-weighted controller.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Originally Posted by Miket156

That just goes to show how spoiled most us have become!

 

I don't think we've become spoiled. It's 2010 and there simply is no practical reason to be dragging around 200lb keyboards these days to club gigs. Just makes no sense unless one is a masochist or such a 'purist' to the point of being beyond reasonable. Is someone "spoiled" because they would rather use a washing machine than wash clothes by hand? Even though I'm sure there are some purists out there who insist that no machine can ever clean clothes as well as someone who really knows what they are doing can do by hand.

It's not about being spoiled. It's about using modern technology in the most sensible and practical manners.

[rhat]

 

Originally Posted by guido61

I don't think we've become spoiled. It's 2010 and there simply is no practical reason to be dragging around 200lb keyboards these days to club gigs. Just makes no sense unless one is a masochist or such a 'purist' to the point of being beyond reasonable. Is someone "spoiled" because they would rather use a washing machine than wash clothes by hand? Even though I'm sure there are some purists out there who insist that no machine can ever clean clothes as well as someone who really knows what they are doing can do by hand.

It's not about being spoiled. It's about using modern technology in the most sensible and practical manners.

 

I would like to go to a 76 key rig , but My board of choice only comes in a 88. as for the old hammonds, To be honest there aint very many guys around that even would know what to do with a hammond and a leslie. combo organs pretty well killed off most guys hammond chops decades ago.. You lose that left hand chord thing pretty fast when you dont use it. Thank god I still have my left hand bass line chops from playing piano.