Members Piano Whore Posted January 4, 2013 Members Share Posted January 4, 2013 IMO jplanet's music has really GOOD marketability. Would anyone have ever predicted Trans-Siberian Orchestra's success? I don't see too much modern about THEIR music-AFAIK rap/hiphop-free and family-friendly. Maybe there are some faults with that comparison, but it seems pretty solid to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted January 5, 2013 Members Share Posted January 5, 2013 Originally Posted by Piano Whore IMO jplanet's music has really GOOD marketability. Would anyone have ever predicted Trans-Siberian Orchestra's success? I don't see too much modern about THEIR music-AFAIK rap/hiphop-free and family-friendly. Maybe there are some faults with that comparison, but it seems pretty solid to me. Well, an exception or two doesn't change the rules. I wish the OP all the luck in the world and hope he breaks all the rules in the same way TSO has. My comment was directed at his line about how the business has changed. I don't think it has. Prog rock was successful in the 70s because it was hip, fresh and appealed almost exclusively to people under 30. Nowadays? Not so much. Now it's a 40-year old genre with very little appeal to younger people. So it's marketability is severely limited for those reasons. In both live and recorded formats. It has nothing much to do with the dedication of the musicians to the art or the state of the music business, really.That's all I was commenting on. But his music and his band are very, very good, IMO. And if he's doing it for the love of the music without any illusions about the difficulties of selling it, then more power to him. Doing it for the love of it is what it's all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted January 5, 2013 Members Share Posted January 5, 2013 Originally Posted by Piano Whore IMO jplanet's music has really GOOD marketability. Would anyone have ever predicted Trans-Siberian Orchestra's success? I don't see too much modern about THEIR music-AFAIK rap/hiphop-free and family-friendly. Maybe there are some faults with that comparison, but it seems pretty solid to me. Well, an exception or two doesn't change the rules. I wish the OP all the luck in the world and hope he breaks all the rules in the same way TSO has. My comment was directed at his line about how the business has changed. I don't think it has. Prog rock was successful in the 70s because it was hip, fresh and appealed almost exclusively to people under 30. Nowadays? Not so much. Now it's a 40-year old genre with very little appeal to younger people. So it's marketability is severely limited for those reasons. In both live and recorded formats. It has nothing much to do with the dedication of the musicians to the art or the state of the music business, really.That's all I was commenting on. But his music and his band are very, very good, IMO. And if he's doing it for the love of the music without any illusions about the difficulties of selling it, then more power to him. Doing it for the love of it is what it's all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted January 5, 2013 Members Share Posted January 5, 2013 Hey, thinkin' about getting back into keys again - only two songs I ever played live were "Space Truckin'" and "Head Games" and only one handed on a mini-keys Casio . The intro riff on "Head Games" is about the closest to playing a lead I'll be able to pull off for a year or two I suspect. What do all you all think of the chances of finding a band crappy enough to want a crappy (but with potential ) rhythm keys player? Would I really suck if I transpose everything to the white keys like I hear some guys are doin' these days? I might be able to play more than rhythm then . BTW I found an organ program for the iPad that not only lets you transpose but you can tell it wheither you are playing a major, minor, blues, or penatonic scale and it will map the "wrong" keys to the closest "right" note - is that sick or what ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted January 5, 2013 Members Share Posted January 5, 2013 Hey, thinkin' about getting back into keys again - only two songs I ever played live were "Space Truckin'" and "Head Games" and only one handed on a mini-keys Casio . The intro riff on "Head Games" is about the closest to playing a lead I'll be able to pull off for a year or two I suspect. What do all you all think of the chances of finding a band crappy enough to want a crappy (but with potential ) rhythm keys player? Would I really suck if I transpose everything to the white keys like I hear some guys are doin' these days? I might be able to play more than rhythm then . BTW I found an organ program for the iPad that not only lets you transpose but you can tell it wheither you are playing a major, minor, blues, or penatonic scale and it will map the "wrong" keys to the closest "right" note - is that sick or what ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted January 5, 2013 Members Share Posted January 5, 2013 Originally Posted by RoadRanger Hey, thinkin' about getting back into keys again - only two songs I ever played live were "Space Truckin'" and "Head Games" and only one handed on a mini-keys Casio . The intro riff on "Head Games" is about the closest to playing a lead I'll be able to pull off for a year or two I suspect. What do all you all think of the chances of finding a band crappy enough to want a crappy (but with potential ) rhythm keys player? Would I really suck if I transpose everything to the white keys like I hear some guys are doin' these days? I might be able to play more than rhythm then . BTW I found an organ program for the iPad that not only lets you transpose but you can tell it wheither you are playing a major, minor, blues, or penatonic scale and it will map the "wrong" keys to the closest "right" note - is that sick or what ? As in demand as keyboard players can be, I'm sure you could find work. Especially since you can sing. And transposing? Why not? If that makes it easier for you and sound better--that's why the added that feature in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted January 5, 2013 Members Share Posted January 5, 2013 Originally Posted by RoadRanger Hey, thinkin' about getting back into keys again - only two songs I ever played live were "Space Truckin'" and "Head Games" and only one handed on a mini-keys Casio . The intro riff on "Head Games" is about the closest to playing a lead I'll be able to pull off for a year or two I suspect. What do all you all think of the chances of finding a band crappy enough to want a crappy (but with potential ) rhythm keys player? Would I really suck if I transpose everything to the white keys like I hear some guys are doin' these days? I might be able to play more than rhythm then . BTW I found an organ program for the iPad that not only lets you transpose but you can tell it wheither you are playing a major, minor, blues, or penatonic scale and it will map the "wrong" keys to the closest "right" note - is that sick or what ? As in demand as keyboard players can be, I'm sure you could find work. Especially since you can sing. And transposing? Why not? If that makes it easier for you and sound better--that's why the added that feature in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Piano Whore Posted January 5, 2013 Members Share Posted January 5, 2013 @roadranger- if you can play substantial rhythm parts with a good feel that enhances the groove, doesn't clutter things up, and fills sonic "holes"- IE, what the music needs- AND sing well- you should get more work than a non-vocalist such as myself, IMO. A singer in one of my bands used to show me keyboard parts, and play them well enough that I asked him "why aren't YOU playing keys?" He assumed that not being a soloist ruled out being the sole keyboard player in a band. But he took my advice and started gigging on keys. Especially in the increasingly down-sized bar-band scene, versatility trumps advanced skill at any one thing and a jack-of-all-trades guy will get more work than a specialist. IMO that's a subject that deserves it's own thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Piano Whore Posted January 5, 2013 Members Share Posted January 5, 2013 @roadranger- if you can play substantial rhythm parts with a good feel that enhances the groove, doesn't clutter things up, and fills sonic "holes"- IE, what the music needs- AND sing well- you should get more work than a non-vocalist such as myself, IMO. A singer in one of my bands used to show me keyboard parts, and play them well enough that I asked him "why aren't YOU playing keys?" He assumed that not being a soloist ruled out being the sole keyboard player in a band. But he took my advice and started gigging on keys. Especially in the increasingly down-sized bar-band scene, versatility trumps advanced skill at any one thing and a jack-of-all-trades guy will get more work than a specialist. IMO that's a subject that deserves it's own thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jplanet Posted January 6, 2013 Author Members Share Posted January 6, 2013 Originally Posted by guido61 ... Prog rock was successful in the 70s because it was hip, fresh and appealed almost exclusively to people under 30. Nowadays? Not so much. Now it's a 40-year old genre with very little appeal to younger people. ... This is only the case in the U.S., and in an internet-driven music market, where you are located matters very little to fans. In Europe, prog never succumbed to the punk-rock backlash that started in England and carried through in the U.S....In Sweden, Germany, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, etc., prog fans are high-school kids, and they really pack the festivals there...It's just hard for me to imagine any rock keyboardist not having some allegiance to prog -- prog is what put keyboards on the rock stage. Where would rock keyboards be without the likes of Keith Emerson, Rock Wakeman, Tony Banks? And prog's influence can be heard all over modern pop - wherever you hear unusual time signatures, classical instrumentation, or the classic Moog sound, prog blazed that trail. It continues to, but people put different labels on it.Prog is also just another marketing niche. We play our music to people who have no idea what prog is, and they just associate it with what they know. They might hear the influence of The Who, Queen, Styx, early Heart, even Trans Siberian... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jplanet Posted January 6, 2013 Author Members Share Posted January 6, 2013 Originally Posted by guido61 ... Prog rock was successful in the 70s because it was hip, fresh and appealed almost exclusively to people under 30. Nowadays? Not so much. Now it's a 40-year old genre with very little appeal to younger people. ... This is only the case in the U.S., and in an internet-driven music market, where you are located matters very little to fans. In Europe, prog never succumbed to the punk-rock backlash that started in England and carried through in the U.S....In Sweden, Germany, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, etc., prog fans are high-school kids, and they really pack the festivals there...It's just hard for me to imagine any rock keyboardist not having some allegiance to prog -- prog is what put keyboards on the rock stage. Where would rock keyboards be without the likes of Keith Emerson, Rock Wakeman, Tony Banks? And prog's influence can be heard all over modern pop - wherever you hear unusual time signatures, classical instrumentation, or the classic Moog sound, prog blazed that trail. It continues to, but people put different labels on it.Prog is also just another marketing niche. We play our music to people who have no idea what prog is, and they just associate it with what they know. They might hear the influence of The Who, Queen, Styx, early Heart, even Trans Siberian... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tim_7string Posted January 6, 2013 Members Share Posted January 6, 2013 Originally Posted by Piano Whore Especially in the increasingly down-sized bar-band scene, versatility trumps advanced skill at any one thing and a jack-of-all-trades guy will get more work than a specialist. IMO that's a subject that deserves it's own thread. Being a jack-of-all-trades is most certainly the reason I have kept busy with gigs long after my peers have retired or were unable to find jobs in bands in later years. I saw the writing on the wall back in the late '80s. I knew I had to learn how to play either guitar or bass guitar besides being a keyboardist if I wanted to stay viable. I learned both and have gigged as both (bassist and guitarist). Knowing keys on top of all that certainly gave me an edge over other bassists for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tim_7string Posted January 6, 2013 Members Share Posted January 6, 2013 Originally Posted by Piano Whore Especially in the increasingly down-sized bar-band scene, versatility trumps advanced skill at any one thing and a jack-of-all-trades guy will get more work than a specialist. IMO that's a subject that deserves it's own thread. Being a jack-of-all-trades is most certainly the reason I have kept busy with gigs long after my peers have retired or were unable to find jobs in bands in later years. I saw the writing on the wall back in the late '80s. I knew I had to learn how to play either guitar or bass guitar besides being a keyboardist if I wanted to stay viable. I learned both and have gigged as both (bassist and guitarist). Knowing keys on top of all that certainly gave me an edge over other bassists for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Without Keith, Rick, and Tony? I guess we'd be stuck copying hacks like Garth Hudson, Goldie McJohn, Richard Wright, Ray Manzarek, and Jerry Lee Lewis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Without Keith, Rick, and Tony? I guess we'd be stuck copying hacks like Garth Hudson, Goldie McJohn, Richard Wright, Ray Manzarek, and Jerry Lee Lewis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by wesg Without Keith, Rick, and Tony?I guess we'd be stuck copying hacks like Garth Hudson, Goldie McJohn, Richard Wright, Ray Manzarek, and Jerry Lee Lewis. That brings up an interesting keyboard topic:While I grew up listening to a lot of the 70s prog guys as well, I mostly learned from the 80s synth players: Howard Jones, Nick Rhodes, Rupert Greenall, Roland Orzabal, etc etc. Does the lineage to these players pass through those 70s prog cats? Or mostly around them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by wesg Without Keith, Rick, and Tony?I guess we'd be stuck copying hacks like Garth Hudson, Goldie McJohn, Richard Wright, Ray Manzarek, and Jerry Lee Lewis. That brings up an interesting keyboard topic:While I grew up listening to a lot of the 70s prog guys as well, I mostly learned from the 80s synth players: Howard Jones, Nick Rhodes, Rupert Greenall, Roland Orzabal, etc etc. Does the lineage to these players pass through those 70s prog cats? Or mostly around them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Piano Whore Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by wesg Without Keith, Rick, and Tony?I guess we'd be stuck copying hacks like Garth Hudson, Goldie McJohn, Richard Wright, Ray Manzarek, and Jerry Lee Lewis. Or other rock players whose style also incorporated their classical training, such as Jon Lord, Tom Scholz, Steve Walsh, Alan Pasqua and others. And also other funk and blues-based players like Chester Thompson, Greg Rolie and Booker T. Not to minimize the importance of ELP and Wakeman, who in their more extensive use of synths probably did directly inspire the 80's players. Back in the day, I was more into K. Emerson than any other of the proggers. I still enjoy the trippy sense of humor in his playing. With his adaptations of barrelhouse and Scott Joplin (and also with his sometimes campy use of synths) he knew how to make you smile. Nowadays I benefit more from trying to emulate players like Rolie and Eddie Harsch (Black Crowes) who don't use a bucketfull of exotic sounds, and generally don't take 10-minute long solos, but who still contribute greatly to their band's sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Piano Whore Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by wesg Without Keith, Rick, and Tony?I guess we'd be stuck copying hacks like Garth Hudson, Goldie McJohn, Richard Wright, Ray Manzarek, and Jerry Lee Lewis. Or other rock players whose style also incorporated their classical training, such as Jon Lord, Tom Scholz, Steve Walsh, Alan Pasqua and others. And also other funk and blues-based players like Chester Thompson, Greg Rolie and Booker T. Not to minimize the importance of ELP and Wakeman, who in their more extensive use of synths probably did directly inspire the 80's players. Back in the day, I was more into K. Emerson than any other of the proggers. I still enjoy the trippy sense of humor in his playing. With his adaptations of barrelhouse and Scott Joplin (and also with his sometimes campy use of synths) he knew how to make you smile. Nowadays I benefit more from trying to emulate players like Rolie and Eddie Harsch (Black Crowes) who don't use a bucketfull of exotic sounds, and generally don't take 10-minute long solos, but who still contribute greatly to their band's sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Man, yeah, there's some players I forgot! Greg Rolie is great, so is Bobby Whitlock (Derek and the Dominoes), I love Booker T., Eddie Harsh too.. I still can't play his tasty piano licks in "Hard To Handle"... need to spend some time in the B-blues woodshed. I'm not slagging on the Prog guys, it was just never my thing, never really heard any 'till long after my musical tastes were formed. I like to listen to ELP, but not in the car, not on repeat....more like going to a symphony concert, put it on when in the mood, let it envelop you. (BTW, all your prog fans need to type "Rachel Flowers" into YouTube) This may explain why I'm more into Hammond/Rhodes/Piano sounds than synth sounds....although my band has me playing synthy stuff, which is actually a bit of a challenge because I'm not used to playing in the idiom (more like horn section shots than piano or organ comping) and I don't have a synth. So I just mix pre-made patches with an eye on timbre and envelope, adding a bit of flange or chorus to make 'em sound synthier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Man, yeah, there's some players I forgot! Greg Rolie is great, so is Bobby Whitlock (Derek and the Dominoes), I love Booker T., Eddie Harsh too.. I still can't play his tasty piano licks in "Hard To Handle"... need to spend some time in the B-blues woodshed. I'm not slagging on the Prog guys, it was just never my thing, never really heard any 'till long after my musical tastes were formed. I like to listen to ELP, but not in the car, not on repeat....more like going to a symphony concert, put it on when in the mood, let it envelop you. (BTW, all your prog fans need to type "Rachel Flowers" into YouTube) This may explain why I'm more into Hammond/Rhodes/Piano sounds than synth sounds....although my band has me playing synthy stuff, which is actually a bit of a challenge because I'm not used to playing in the idiom (more like horn section shots than piano or organ comping) and I don't have a synth. So I just mix pre-made patches with an eye on timbre and envelope, adding a bit of flange or chorus to make 'em sound synthier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Piano Whore Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by wesg Eddie Harsh too.. I still can't play his tasty piano licks in "Hard To Handle"... need to spend some time in the B-blues woodshed I think that may have been Chuck Leavell, who AFAIK recorded the keys on the first BC record. I better check that one out myself, BTW, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Piano Whore Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by wesg Eddie Harsh too.. I still can't play his tasty piano licks in "Hard To Handle"... need to spend some time in the B-blues woodshed I think that may have been Chuck Leavell, who AFAIK recorded the keys on the first BC record. I better check that one out myself, BTW, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paste Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by guido61 That brings up an interesting keyboard topic:While I grew up listening to a lot of the 70s prog guys as well, I mostly learned from the 80s synth players: Howard Jones, Nick Rhodes, Rupert Greenall, Roland Orzabal, etc etc. Does the lineage to these players pass through those 70s prog cats? Or mostly around them? Not sure if he was a fan at the time, but when Howard Jones was in one of Ringo's All Starr Bands together with Greg Lake, they did a pretty cool version of Karn Evil 9, with Sheila E on drums. Couldn't find a video clip, but here's some audio of Escoveda, Lake, and Jones: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paste Posted January 7, 2013 Members Share Posted January 7, 2013 Originally Posted by guido61 That brings up an interesting keyboard topic:While I grew up listening to a lot of the 70s prog guys as well, I mostly learned from the 80s synth players: Howard Jones, Nick Rhodes, Rupert Greenall, Roland Orzabal, etc etc. Does the lineage to these players pass through those 70s prog cats? Or mostly around them? Not sure if he was a fan at the time, but when Howard Jones was in one of Ringo's All Starr Bands together with Greg Lake, they did a pretty cool version of Karn Evil 9, with Sheila E on drums. Couldn't find a video clip, but here's some audio of Escoveda, Lake, and Jones: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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