And then...depression set in

[flemtone]

I thought there was a little wang to my granola this morning!

[SeniorBlues]

I passed a physical to become a Navy pilot in 1967, only to get DQed because I broke by leg in six places (skiing) before my scheduled flight school sessions in Pensecola. Probably saved my life. Jim's dad can probably tell you about instrument landing on a carrier in rough seas. . . . What was I thinking.

But you're probably more interested in hearing about my days playing in the supper club circuit . . . . . because it's about playing in bands. Did I mention that three of the six guys in this full-time road band were married? It' doesn't work. They all got divorced shortly after I left. (No, I had nothing to do with any of them, although the tenor player mistakenly thought so.)

The happily married pro musicians I know are mostly teachers. They gave up playing long ago, except for special occasions.

[snoggin]

SOMEBODY TELL ME HOW TO USE MULTIQUOTE PLEASE..

Ahem ,, My goal at the moment is to even have a small measure of success at the local level... i dont even know if that is really attainable but it is my goal.. Ya gots to have one..

In my view around here you cant make money even with cover bands.. just not happening so I might as well try the original route.. First I'll make a cd and then see what happens.. Going to try and use the internet better than i have so far and see if i can get anyone at all interested in my stuff..

I still am working the cover angle in another project too but more to try and play in front of decent crowds than love or money.

one thing i have going or tyhat gives me blinders is I am not jaded like 90 percent of the musicians I see.. i didnt play for 25 years so its all still new to me and I have a lot of passion and excitement about things still.. Young and dumb and 51 lol.

www.myspace.com/thescarletpimpernels

And that's the hardest part. As musicians, we want it all- a successful career in music doing our own stuff on our own terms, a happy marriage, well-adjusted kids, steady income, decent house, dependable rigs to drive, and so on. And I just don't know how that works. I tried my ass off to find that balance and I never could. It always comes down to the fact that the guys who are successful doing what I wanted to do are gone 200-300 days a year, and most of them are divorced. What 3shiftgtr said is gospel, in my experience. I thought there was a way to make my CDs, promote them, do regional stuff until I got popular enough to get the attention of a label or management team, and then I'd skip all that slugging it out at the semi and lower national level and go right to playing on big tours and making the big dollars. Even with all the experience I had at the local/regional/touring level, I was unprepared for the level of politics, backstabbing, ass-kissing, quid pro quo, etc I encountered even at the lowest levels of playing with national acts. It's a bit like coming up through the minor leagues in baseball, only in music, there is no set path- there might be 4 levels you pass through, or there might be 40, but at each one, you're starting out at the bottom, having to prove yourself all over again, with the above mentioned politics and slander etc even worse. Instead of opening a festival at noon on Friday or closing it at 6 pm on Sunday playing to nobody 100 miles from home, you're doing it halfway across the country. But you do it to get your name on the posters and shirts and other schwag, and to be able to say you did it to move up the ladder. We talk a lot about 'banding together' and 'the brotherhood of musicians' here. Well, I experienced very little of it. What I saw was somewhere between indifference and hostility from national acts I opened for. A few of them were nice guys- John Mayall, Charlie Musselwhite, John Hammond, and a couple of others. But to most of them, you're an inconvenience they have to deal with before they play, as well as money out of their pockets they could be making if you weren't there getting paid. But those guys weren't the biggest pain, it was the other bands you have to compete with to get the gigs. They (or their management) will undercut you, slander you, bribe the event bookers/producers with gifts, and all sorts of things to get an advantage. I got word from my agent that one big festival I had tried to get into for years wouldn't hire me because the producer had been told by someone in another band that I was strung out on booze and meth, even though I've been clean and sober for 32 years. Another big festival guy hinted that a box of Cuban cigars would go a long way to getting us on stage. I still believe it's possible to be a well-known guy and be at home most of the time, but I haven't figured out how. I gave up trying, because at my age, I'm starting to develop health issues. I'm currently undergoing testing to find out why certain things are happening with me, and they won't say much until they have results, so I won't speculate here, but suffice it to say I'm a bit worried. But it is what it is, and it makes me realize how unimportant chasing 'the dream' is to me today. I know I put way too many eggs in the 'musician' basket for far too long, and I'm reaping what I've sown today. I'll never be able to retire, I'll likely never make more money than I am now, I gig today because I have to to pay bills, and it's only because I married a good woman (27 years now) with a good job with benefits and retirement that we were able to own a home and raise our kids. Still, my experience is my own, and I won't ridicule anyone for chasing their dream, and won't presume to tell them when it's time to let it go, if that time ever comes. In fact, I'll cheer you on. I'd love to see one of us poor sons of bitches here do something big!

[rhat]

Judging from the self-defensive animal-in-a-corner lashing out, it's obviously something akin to penis envy. Guys like rhat have never flown at Mach 2, been on 15-minute alert in case the Commies decided to invade, or been in dogfights with enemy planes and evading SAM crews, or ground forces with rifles and rockets, who were all out to turn your plane into a burning hulk of scrap metal. How would rhat have handled a complete hydraulic failure at 600mph, followed by a chute failure(emergency chute worked), and an undeployed raft (Dad had to pry the raft box open with his combat knife enough to get the lanyard out to inflate it), then float around in the bitterly cold Sea of Japan until an Okinawan fishing boat plucked him out? I'm sure that's something rhat can totally understand... not .

Na ,,, cooter ,, the problem is that in the flying game no one ever issued you a penis. As for your dad ,, i dont doubt that he was a decent stick. I would guess that I hold more FAA issued flying certificates than he did. So trust me guy ,,, i was no slouch at it. You dont fly as much as I did and not have a few airplanes try to kill you. Oh yea they didnt issue us chutes or ejecton seats. we were expected to fly the thing to a successful outcome or die trying. No jumpin ship.

[rhat]

Now why didn't think of that? I could be the next Happenstance!

The buffet model. You go live in a tourist town and let the people come to you instead of you going to the people. The guy I play with has fans from all over the country and alot in europe. WHY?> They all go to the island for winters and vacations. I would guess he has as many or more fans from MN, IL, MI, WI as he does in texas. We also get a big influx of europeans in the winter too.

[rhat]

General aviation must be a bit different. I have had the good fortune of working with a bunch of Vietnam era fighter, recon and helicopter pilots, none came off like the gen-av. guys here. They all still flew, I guess after being shot at, and shot down in a couple of casaes, as well as flying in weather you have no business flying in, everything else isn't that big of deal to them. The Nam era guys have now retired, and as Rhat said most of the ex-military guys do try for gigs in the airlines. Some fly freight, but I don't personally know any that fly corporate.

 

 

Corp is a little different game. You have to have very good people skills. Its a big part of the job. Not everyone can be rubbing elbows with top corp exec and are comfortable doing it. You also have to conduct flight ops into alot of strange airports in all kinds of weather , without the support of a big organized structre like an airline or the mililtary. You wear alot of hats. Its not a job for everybody. You have to be comfortable around very wealthy people and not have a chip on your shoulder. Some guys have a hard time with that.

[MrKnobs]

By the way, the thread isn't deleted. It's just in a safe place.

 

Heads down to the safe place to read it.

 

Terry D.

[tucktronix]

Corp is a little different game. You have to have very good people skills. Its a big part of the job. Not everyone can be rubbing elbows with top corp exec and are comfortable doing it. You also have to conduct flight ops into alot of strange airports in all kinds of weather , without the support of a big organized structre like an airline or the mililtary. You wear alot of hats. Its not a job for everybody. You have to be comfortable around very wealthy people and not have a chip on your shoulder. Some guys have a hard time with that.

I guess we can have a separate forum called "Runway With The Band"... perhaps...???

[3shiftgtr]

Na ,,, cooter ,, the problem is that in the flying game no one ever issued you a penis. As for your dad ,, i dont doubt that he was a decent stick. I would guess that I hold more FAA issued flying certificates than he did. So trust me guy ,,, i was no slouch at it. You dont fly as much as I did and not have a few airplanes try to kill you. Oh yea they didnt issue us chutes or ejecton seats. we were expected to fly the thing to a successful outcome or die trying. No jumpin ship.

C'mon, rhat...why are you forcing a comparison? Coot is defending his dad cuz you are measuring dicks and implying...I repeat implying....that Coot's pappy ain't in your league as a human via your status in the air. What kind of asshole does that? That is his dad you are talking about. Back off.

You could stand to learn a lesson from his fathers humility. But then, your point is that you can't succeed without a healthy dose of ego....

And why is it so important to you to let us all know that fly jocks have incredible odds stacked up against them to succeed? Is your profession the only one that requires a degree of greatness? Is your profession the only one that asks for confidence? Is your profession the only one who's ladder narrows as it gets higher?

C'mon man, I understand defending your profession, but to the point of ripping someone's dad, whom you have never met, to the point of just GOADING him....I never took you for a troll....and I don't think you are playing that....but you are certainly acting very, shall we say, AMP FORUM-ish?

[rhat]

C'mon, rhat...why are you forcing a comparison? Coot is defending his dad cuz you are measuring dicks and implying...I repeat implying....that Coot's pappy ain't in your league as a human via your status in the air. What kind of asshole does that? That is his dad you are talking about. Back off. You could stand to learn a lesson from his fathers humility. But then, your point is that you can't succeed without a healthy dose of ego.... And why is it so important to you to let us all know that fly jocks have incredible odds stacked up against them to succeed? Is your profession the only one that requires a degree of greatness? Is your profession the only one that asks for confidence? Is your profession the only one who's ladder narrows as it gets higher? C'mon man, I understand defending your profession, but to the point of ripping someone's dad, whom you have never met, to the point of just GOADING him....I never took you for a troll....and I don't think you are playing that....but you are certainly acting very, shall we say, AMP FORUM-ish?

I am not a troll,, but i sure as hell aint a punching bag either. cooters daddy let him land a plane a couple times. I dont think that puts cooter in a position to start saying flying for a living aint a big deal. I dont know cooters dad ,, he doesnt know mine either. I do know one thing. At age 16 my dad let me land a plane too,,, then he signed the back of my medical and said go shoot me three take offs and landings solo ,,,,, yea he was a CFI.

I am not being an asshole. Just stating facts. I held every fixed wing rating issued by the FAA and did it for a living. Worked damb hard to get those certificates. Cooter was the one that brought his daddy to the fight ,, not me.

I am sure the guy was a fine pilot and a good guy. but trust me.,, when the oh its just a job ,, thats what we do. Thats ego ,, like it or not. Any pilot worth his salt has a healthy dose of ego . it takes that to survive.

[modulusman]

Well Rhat has to brag about being a pilot because he doesn't have a band. He has over 22,000 posts a great majority of them on BWTB and has'nt played in a band for 40 years.

[rhat]

I guess we can have a separate forum called "Runway With The Band"... perhaps...???

Who knows.. being a musican and a pilot have alot things that are somewhat alike. I may be hard to see if you are not a pilot.

[rhat]

Well Rhat has to brag about being a pilot because he doesn't have a band. He has over 22,000 posts a great majority of them on BSWB and has'nt played in a band for 40 years.

Played 25 gigs last winter mod. why is it that most of your posts are trying to belittle people ,,, I guess your life must suck so much that you have to go after other people to feel better about youself. must suck to be you

[jwlussow]

I dont spend a lot of time here, rhat, but i think you are much more apt to belittle people then mod. I get the impression that you feel yourself superior to everyone here because you fly. It is great that you fly. That is cool. Only problem is cutting us down because we

[ckcondon]

I thought this was an "us against GuitarFlyer" thread. Why all the hostility toward each other?

Isn't slamming peoples parents pretty out of bounds? No doubt that I'd get riled up if someone made any assumptions about my Mom and Dad!

[BlueStrat]

I am not being an asshole.

That doesn't appear to be the consensus. Maybe what you should have said is you don't mean to be an asshole.

Who knows.. being a musican and a pilot have alot things that are somewhat alike. I may be hard to see if you are not a pilot.

Being a musician is a lot like being a carpenter in many ways. Maybe hard to see if you aren't a carpenter. :poke:


(the point being, in case you missed it- there are parallels in ever career choice to another! )

My dad wasn't a carpenter, so no one can cap on his ability!
He was a trucker- which, come to think of it, is a lot like being a musician....

[cooterbrown]

That doesn't appear to be the consensus. Maybe what you should have said is you don't mean to be an asshole. Being a musician is a lot like being a carpenter in many ways. Maybe hard to see if you aren't a carpenter. :poke: (the point being, in case you missed it- there are parallels in ever career choice to another! ) My dad wasn't a carpenter, so no one can cap on his ability! He was a trucker- which, come to think of it, is a lot like being a musician....

 

So is being a lab tech...I seriously doubt if any of you could comprehend that, though. :poke:

[kmart]

Hey guess what?

I could give two craps about being a pilot, what it takes to be a pilot, or what you think I do or do not understand about being a pilot.

Whoop de do; you were a pilot. You really want to impress everyone so much?

Go do something really important, like cure cancer or wipe out poverty, or make everlasting world peace. THEN I'll be impressed. Until then, you had a job. I have a job too.

[cooterbrown]

Corp is a little different game. You have to have very good people skills. Its a big part of the job. Not everyone can be rubbing elbows with top corp exec and are comfortable doing it. You also have to conduct flight ops into alot of strange airports in all kinds of weather , without the support of a big organized structre like an airline or the mililtary. You wear alot of hats. Its not a job for everybody. You have to be comfortable around very wealthy people and not have a chip on your shoulder. Some guys have a hard time with that.

 

Yeah...my dad did all of that.

He was so chummy with the execs at FMC and Baxter Travenol, that both companies offered what amounted to a three-fold increase in pay to go into upper management with them...he wound up Director of Personnel at Baxter. So yeah, he had people skills, too.

 

But thanks for playing, rhat...hopefully when get your ass off your shoulders, and remove your foot from your mouth, you can go back to being the oldie musician we all liked.

Until then, maybe a Kotex and some Pamprin will help you with your problem.

I took this photo of my Dad, in the mid-90s, who is about to take his buddy Paul up for some vomit-inducing tailslides in his Skybolt.

[mstreck]

Funny how this thread is turning into the thread that it references...

[3shiftgtr]

I am not a troll,, but i sure as hell aint a punching bag either. cooters daddy let him land a plane a couple times. I dont think that puts cooter in a position to start saying flying for a living aint a big deal. I dont know cooters dad ,, he doesnt know mine either. I do know one thing. At age 16 my dad let me land a plane too,,, then he signed the back of my medical and said go shoot me three take offs and landings solo ,,,,, yea he was a CFI. I am not being an asshole. Just stating facts. I held every fixed wing rating issued by the FAA and did it for a living. Worked damb hard to get those certificates. Cooter was the one that brought his daddy to the fight ,, not me. I am sure the guy was a fine pilot and a good guy. but trust me.,, when the oh its just a job ,, thats what we do. Thats ego ,, like it or not. Any pilot worth his salt has a healthy dose of ego . it takes that to survive.

Remember, you started this whole fly boy debate in the thread by defending guitarflyer's buttwinking by basically saying "It's cool he's an asshole, cuz you've got to be one to do what we do. Which btw, makes us more self actualized and admirable than you groundpounders."

That's asking to be a punching bag.

Then someone says "Oh yeah? My dad flew and was a good guy."

Then you say "If he isn't where I am, he's a loooooooser."

C'mon man, you really can't see it?

[Lee Flier]

I know two commercial pilots. One is retired from Delta after 40+ years, the other is still an active Delta pilot. They are both extremely humble guys whom I know have both been through some life threatening situations, and when people sound impressed with their accomplishments, they both brush it off and say "But that's just our job. That's what we trained for." And then usually change the subject. No ego at all. Much like Capt. Sullenberger who landed the plane in the Hudson River.

[ChordGirl]

But can you fly this?

[wades_keys]

But can you fly this?

Albert king could. Upside down even.

[ChordGirl]