Moderators Lee Knight Posted August 26, 2012 Moderators Share Posted August 26, 2012 god forbid someone talk about a slice of the market they DON'T know a out very well. hungover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted August 26, 2012 Members Share Posted August 26, 2012 Am I the one coming off as excessively cranky this morning? Don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted August 26, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 26, 2012 The whole post was fantastic, but I'll just quote my favorite line from it. You're turning it into a discussion about your own narrow little slice of the market...___You're turning it into a discussion about your own narrow little slice of the market...___You're turning it into a discussion about your own narrow little slice of the market...___You're turning it into a discussion about your own narrow little slice of the market...___You're turning it into a discussion about your own narrow little slice of the market...___ Is that comment directed towards me? If so, let me point out that I didn't turn the discussion into anything. I started the thread it's others who, in my view, through such discussions of by boldly, and often smugly, stating that they'd never add dancing girls to their jazz trio or some such Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted August 26, 2012 Moderators Share Posted August 26, 2012 Am I the one coming off as excessively cranky this morning? ummm... yeah, sorta I think Todd's post is spot on. And BlueStrat makes a wonderful point of how things spin downward quickly around here. When someone "pontificates" on their "own narrow little slice of the market". forgetting it is indeed their small slice, and there are in fact many other slices, misunderstandings arise. The video in the OP. That could very well be the road to riches in certain parts of this country. Try that here and you'd be laughed at. But what the video shows is a band trying something. That's cool. The idea, from first glance is very thin. But its point is great. Try something! Just don't try that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members timrocker Posted August 26, 2012 Members Share Posted August 26, 2012 To answer the original question, I would have no quibble with playing in the band in the video of the OP. What they're doing is not that salacious, and, to my ears, FWIW, they're delivering the musical goods too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted August 26, 2012 Moderators Share Posted August 26, 2012 Is that comment directed towards me? If so, let me point out that I didn't turn the discussion into anything. I started the thread it's others who, in my view, through such discussions of by boldly, and often smugly, stating that they'd never add dancing girls to their jazz trio or some such I wasn't thinking of you specifically when I quoted that. You'll have to ask BlueStrat what his intentions were. But that line is a good reminder how we all get locked in our experience and fail to understand that there is more than our personal experience out there. And to pontificate based on our experience, while forgetting about the rest of the world can be dicey. Now I made the point that basic idea (in the video) was thin. That is in no way saying that your basic point was thin. I think it is a great point. What you were saying. You don't need to defend it if others don't get your point. They may however see your point as something you didn't intend. And this is where all these thread so wrong. You end up defending nonsense. So much so that your point is long lost. Why bother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted August 26, 2012 Moderators Share Posted August 26, 2012 To answer the original question, I would have no quibble with playing in the band in the video of the OP. What they're doing is not that salacious, and, to my ears, FWIW, they're delivering the musical goods too. And here's the point! The idea works for you? That's great. You've just got yourself an idea to earn more money. Or its spawned some other great ideas of you own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted August 26, 2012 Members Share Posted August 26, 2012 But that line is a good reminder how we all get locked in our experience and fail to understand that there is more than our personal experience out there. And to pontificate based on our experience, while forgetting about the rest of the world can be dicey. Yeah things get ugly quick around here so let me just say I'm just discussing here Lee and not attacking or anything I think we use that excuse too often around here. Maybe the world is a different place musically but IMO not the US. If that were the case national and regional artists would have to to customize their shows based on what parts of the country they're in. I'd say that there are small pockets in all of our communities where certain things would not work. Sometimes people in our forums (nobody in mind) play a little "one up" by saying, "Try that {censored} here and nobody would come see you." I'm talking about everything including songs, wardrobe, guitars music, dancing girls. When in fact most of the time those things will work anywhere in the country if it's done by a good band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted August 26, 2012 Moderators Share Posted August 26, 2012 Yeah things get ugly quick around here so let me just say I'm just discussing here Lee and not attacking or anything I think we use that excuse too often around here. Maybe the world is a different place musically but IMO not the US. If that were the case national and regional artists would have to to customize their shows based on what parts of the country they're in. I'd say that there are small pockets in all of our communities where certain things would not work. Sometimes people in our forums (nobody in mind) play a little "one up" by saying, "Try that {censored} here and nobody would come see you." I'm talking about everything including songs, wardrobe, guitars music, dancing girls. When in fact most of the time those things will work anywhere in the country if it's done by a good band. I totally agree. But that is why I'm trying to still get in the point, "That's a thin idea!". Because, well... I'm trying not to come off as an asshole and I'm sure I'm failing miserably, but that idea is whack! And I guess I'm trying to make the point that I think bands should try something... but to just jump on a cheezy idea, you're going to hate yourself in the morning. People don't have to agree with that. But I want that side represented here. Gimmick doesn't have to be cheeze. Granted, we all have our personal barometers of what's cheezy, and if TimRocker or whoever looks at that video and thinks, cool, I'd do that. Great. But I gotta worry of everybody likes that. Because there is not one ounce of "cool" there. It feels like the local dinner theater production of a rock musical. If that's what floats someone's boat, I'm sincere, that is great. Just please don't let it be everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mstreck Posted August 26, 2012 Members Share Posted August 26, 2012 It feels like the local dinner theater production of a rock musical. Yeah, but with really hot chicks. Speaking of dinner theater, I think a lot of us have come up through high school band and/or drama productions - maybe even at the college or community level. Those of us who have have probably taken risks and done some things that others would see as "foolish", but to us it's not a big deal. I think the bottom line regarding the validity of a "gimmick" is the audience's reaction to it. If it works, then it works. But some people will always be too cool for the room, just as some will jump on anything that *might* work. Whether you choose to take part in it's success (or failure) is up to you. Can we move on now? Or at least post some more videos with hot chicks dancing on stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted August 26, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 26, 2012 I totally agree. But that is why I'm trying to still get in the point, "That's a thin idea!". Because, well... I'm trying not to come off as an asshole and I'm sure I'm failing miserably, but that idea is whack! And I guess I'm trying to make the point that I think bands should try something... but to just jump on a cheezy idea, you're going to hate yourself in the morning. People don't have to agree with that. But I want that side represented here. Gimmick doesn't have to be cheeze. Granted, we all have our personal barometers of what's cheezy, and if TimRocker or whoever looks at that video and thinks, cool, I'd do that. Great. But I gotta worry of everybody likes that. Because there is not one ounce of "cool" there. It feels like the local dinner theater production of a rock musical. If that's what floats someone's boat, I'm sincere, that is great. Just please don't let it be everybody. No one has advocated doing anything poorly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted August 26, 2012 Members Share Posted August 26, 2012 No one has advocated doing anything poorly What exactly are the two girls doing well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members timrocker Posted August 26, 2012 Members Share Posted August 26, 2012 Everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members timrocker Posted August 26, 2012 Members Share Posted August 26, 2012 Now, there is a second half of the original question: What wouldn't you do for money? I wouldn't play for GWAR, Slipknot, or Big & Rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted August 26, 2012 Members Share Posted August 26, 2012 Everything. Exactly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EightString Posted August 26, 2012 Members Share Posted August 26, 2012 Well, I'm sure that a lot of readers have come away thinking about what they can do to "up their game", which was probably the original point. Maybe the disconnect is that some of us seem to HATE the video example given. You have to admit, that clip gives a lot of fodder for discussion. But hating the example doesn't mean I hate the premise, and I even took a minute to imagine my jazz-oriented shows with more glitz. Just because i came to the conclusion that my current path of show improvement is working for me doesn't mean I didn't honestly consider adding SOMETHING else in the context of this thread. Maybe (just a suggestion) if some would reread the discussion with that in mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted August 26, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 26, 2012 What exactly are the two girls doing well? I get criticized for repeating my points over and over and then get asked questions like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted August 26, 2012 Members Share Posted August 26, 2012 I get criticized for repeating my points over and over and then get asked questions like this? As often happens, you want to address a different point than the one I'm making. I'm specifically asking what they do well - a point YOU raised with your remark about doing things poorly - which is not the same as considering what their value added is to the band's gross. That only speaks to how low the bar is for some consumers. My point is that I'm sure there are more than a few people who couldn't help but notice that unlike other top flight groups, two chicks on stage would be expected to dance and/or sing at the very least. They don't do anything that requires any talent whatsoever, and the fact that some people simply like to look at pretty girls doesn't change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted August 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 27, 2012 As often happens, you want to address a different point than the one I'm making. I'm specifically asking what they do well - a point YOU raised with your remark about doing things poorly - which is not the same as considering what their value added is to the band's gross. That only speaks to how low the bar is for some consumers. My point is that I'm sure there are more than a few people who couldn't help but notice that unlike other top flight groups, two chicks on stage would be expected to dance and/or sing at the very least. They don't do anything that requires any talent whatsoever, and the fact that some people simply like to look at pretty girls doesn't change that. I'll repeat myself then. I don't think they do anything particularly well. I never claimed they did. The clip simply provides an example of how EASY it is to up the commercial appeal of an act playing common material in a common manner Just think what a band could do applying a similar mentality with the skill and talent so many here are complaining is missing! Will people do that? Or will they just bitch about how much they think the band sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted August 27, 2012 Members Share Posted August 27, 2012 I don't think they do anything particularly well. I never claimed they did. Simply repeating your point that we all get doesn't change this disconnect . . . You said nobody was advocating for doing anything poorly, yet you post an example of chicks actually doing something poorly. Don't you see that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted August 27, 2012 Members Share Posted August 27, 2012 What exactly are the two girls doing well?that's a very good question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted August 27, 2012 Members Share Posted August 27, 2012 When it comes to playing covers, I'm open to doing anything that can get steady gigs and not exceed the suck threshold too much. But that's because I'm on hiatus from work; looking to go full time with music. When that wasn't the case I was a little more selective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted August 27, 2012 Members Share Posted August 27, 2012 I'm confused. Can you run any band up to $1,200+ a gig on any setlist alone? I don't think so. Yes. Party rock bands can make that kind of money even in this general area with the right connections. But you won't play as many of those gigs without some heavy travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted August 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 27, 2012 Simply repeating your point that we all get doesn't change this disconnect . . . You said nobody was advocating for doing anything poorly, yet you post an example of chicks actually doing something poorly. Don't you see that? Something poorly that triples their bottom line. Think of how much a band could make who did a similar thing better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted August 27, 2012 Moderators Share Posted August 27, 2012 What exactly are the two girls doing well? Holy mackerel David! I'm not saying anybody did! Just take yourself out of it for a second. The video is advocating it by default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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