Hey Lee Knight: Is this better

[Lee Knight]

That's the second time I've seen this in this thread. Where does this come from? Who here "defends mediocrity"?

 

 

You do. ^^^ You may not realize it, but that is exactly why I ride you. It is nothing personal, it is strictly that I can't fathom some (and frankly most) of your ideologies with regards to bands and music.

 

You mention vocals. Hell, I mentioned vocals as well in Wade's first video. I think they, and I said they, need to get a good solid singing front man to really carry this off. But he made the point that "all in good time". And then proceeded to start working on his core band; it's feel and execution. Time well spent. I don't doubt that working on vocals would garner more financial rewards. But that kind of groove displayed in this video is the kind to keep people dancing regardless of how new or popular the song is.

 

The band is selling it through the groove. GOOD ON THEM! Personally, I think that is a great place to start. But I'm not saying it is the most important either. Agreed, the vocal wins every time. But why does that take away any importance from this groove work.

 

So, it is nothing personal, it just that I totally disagree with these things that come out of your mouth. That somehow time is being wasted by paying attention to what he's working on. (No, I'm not going to waste my time going back and quoting you)

 

And guido, no... I don't fancy myself, I'm just honest and offer my input. If I've said some things that seem silly to you and some, that's cool. I'm just trying to make a point. What you and I see as important are obviously very different. My hyperbole can get the best of me but my intentions are good.

[Lee Knight]

No no no no...you don't get it Senior....the audience only taps into showmanship....attention to detail in the music end of it is a waste. It is sad when people get old and don't get this. Says so right here in this thread. Read the thread again.

 

 

Yes! "Showmanship"! Good catch! I need to attend Band Camp and go to that class "Jump Start Your Showmanship! (Don't Waste No Time On Dat Groov Thang!)"_101

 

Cause really, either you got it or you don't, and working on this silly groov thang is a waste of your time when it comes to the bottom line with regards to wedding band hierarchy. Where things really matter and clearly the groov doesn't. The bride, groom and grandma don't care about no groov...

 

So with me class? Remember, clap on 1 + 3! Here we go...

[Vito Corleone]

My hyperbole can get the best of me but my intentions are good.

 

 

That's true for both of us.

 

I don't know why we even go around on this subject. I've stated numerous times that I think a band playing well together is important. And obvious.

 

It's the basics. It's the first grade stuff. Playing songs well and tight and with energy and excitement and flair is crucial to any successful band. I'm not sure what it is you think is important to you that isn't important to me as well.

 

So what did I say in this thread that offended you so? That I think 'groove' is largely something a player either just has or doesn't? Especially by the time one reaches middle age or beyond? Sorry, but I don't think that's so controversial or out there. Seriously---in all honesty---how many players have you known that were significantly better at 45 than they were at 25? Especially in terms of such rather intangible attributes like 'groove'? To say that there's a law of diminishing returns when it comes to working on certain things as people get older, may be a hard truth, but I still stand by it.

 

Maybe you've had a different experience than me over your musical career? Okay then. So be it. We offer different perspectives then on that point. But it doesn't make my perspectives and experiences any less valid.

 

Does it mean I think 'groove' is less IMPORTANT? No. Absolutely not. Again, I think it's absolutely essential for any good performance. But my perspective here is that this is a Live Performance board. And the #1, overriding key to Live Performance is Connecting That Performance To The Audience. You can agree or disagree, but in my view nothing else matters. If you're not concerned about connecting to the audience, then just stay home and play in the basement. And that's true whether you're a 12 piece rock n soul band, a three piece heavy metal combo, or a guy on stage making balloon animals for kids. There are certain elements to a good live performance that transcend genre or even the type of act you might be. A lot of those sorts of things are obviously going to be discussed in a forum such as this and should not be dismissed or derided just because they don't appear to be as 'musical' as some might like.

 

Basically, here's my harsh take on it: if you think that simply 'the music' alone is enough to sell your live performance---while you might not be mistaken, because there certainly ARE bands that can do that--if you gotta come into a forum such as this and ask HOW to do that? You're probably not gonna be one of the guys in that catagory. And that's not a rag on anyone in particular on this forum. I've never played with any of you. Until I do--or at least see you perform live---I really don't think I can judge who has 'it' and who doesn't. Way too hard to tell from random video clips shot on iPhones on such.

 

That Wade wants to post stuff asking for suggestions on how to improve his playing? I think that's great. And my intention was to not even post in this forum since it was specifically addressed to you. But when others start chiming in with snide remarks pretty clearly directed at me? Yeah, I'll respond to support my positions. For better or worse.

 

I'm glad Wade wants to improve the groove of his band and how well they play together. That's important. Will it be enough to take his band where he's indicated he wants to go with it? (He's talked about being at the "corporate" level.) No, it won't be. Plain and simple. But yes, you gotta start with the basics.

[Vito Corleone]

Yes! "Showmanship"! Good catch! I need to attend Band Camp and go to that class "Jump Start Your Showmanship! (Don't Waste No Time On Dat Groov Thang!)"_101 Cause really, either you got it or you don't, and working on this silly groov thang is a waste of your time when it comes to the bottom line with regards to wedding band hierarchy. Where things really matter and clearly the groov doesn't. The bride, groom and grandma don't care about no groov... So with me class? Remember, clap on 1 + 3! Here we go...

Lee Knight! Keepin' it classy!

[Vito Corleone]

There is a difference between having the right to have an opinion on showmanship, which you have, and having the wrong one. Which you have also.

I wish it were that simple. Unfortunately, I've got 35 years of being in a handful (how has such a dick managed to play in only a few bands his entire life? He must be doing SOMETHING right...) of successful bands and thousands of successful gigs that tell me my opinions are on the right track. I can only post and offer opinions and suggestions based on my experience. Which has been a GOOD, SUCCESSFUL experience. You have a different, but ALSO good and successful experience? Great! Let's hear your stories and advice. I may offer a counter-experience so people can weigh what will work best for their situation, but I won't tell you you're WRONG just because it isn't my experience or isn't a path I'd personally choose to take.

[Lee Knight]

I wish it were that simple. Unfortunately, I've got 35 years of being in a handful (how has such a dick managed to play in only a few bands his entire life? He must be doing SOMETHING right...) of successful bands and thousands of successful gigs that tell me my opinions are on the right track. I can only post and offer opinions and suggestions based on my experience. Which has been a GOOD, SUCCESSFUL experience. You have a different, but ALSO good and successful experience? Great! Let's hear your stories and advice. I may offer a counter-experience so people can weigh what will work best for their situation, but I won't tell you you're WRONG just because it isn't my experience or isn't a path I'd personally choose to take.

 

 

And I believe that is why you are respected here. Because you bring that to the table. But you seem unwilling to admit that sometimes that is not the topic. And that, in turn, works against you.

 

Connecting. Your biggie. Groove connects like nothing else. Even more than "working the crowd", though it can be less obvious and harder to attain. But the TRUTH is, not enough bands really have a clue what groove means. And I'm sorry, but I believe your band is missing that as well. And when things feel off kilter and I can't seem to figure the issue of why my band or track is not quite doing it, it's a question of groove for me too.

 

You asked me to be specific and talk about the things I propose in a more pragmatic way. That is exactly what was going on in my exchange with Wade. So now either you got it or you don't? Proves my point, this is nothing but a be more like Jump Start You Party forum. There is a big place for that here. But it does not over ride everything.

 

So we were talking about GROOVE. A HUGE proponent of CONNECTING with the audience. And you say either you got it or you don't. Well thank you very much Mr. Productive!

 

If you fail to see my point then you truly are interested in the internet win and nothing more. Come on man.

[Vito Corleone]

And I believe that is why you are respected here. Because you bring that to the table. But you seem unwilling to admit that sometimes that is not the topic. And that, in turn, works against you.

 

 

Well, like I said, I didn't think this thread really pertained to me or the things I'm most interested in and I wasn't inclined to respond in it, until somebody ELSE made those things 'the topic' and you apparently couldn't wait to jump in and turn into something personal with me.

 

It's one thing to start a thread talking about groove and how it's important. I have no disagreement with that at all. But then finding the need to turn that into a thread full of snide remarks about "showmanship" and other such things? What's up with that? How does help keep things working around here and who exactly is only interested in the internet win in that case?

 

 

Connecting. Your biggie. Groove connects like nothing else. Even more than "working the crowd", though it can be less obvious and harder to attain. But the TRUTH is, not enough bands really have a clue what groove means. And I'm sorry, but I believe your band is missing that as well. And when things feel off kilter and I can't seem to figure the issue of why my band or track is not quite doing it, it's a question of groove for me too.

 

 

While I'm not particularly interested in critiquing my band at this point, I'd first point out that you've never seen us. You really don't know how well we groove or not and certain can't judge how that connects to the audience. And I'd offer that if you're correct, and my band is missing groove, then that only serves to prove MY point. Because we connect AMAZINGLY well with our audiences. Gig after gig and night after night. Those results speak for themselves and are not subjective. So either we have more groove than you think, or it IS possible to fully connect to an audience and have a successful gig/band without it. And no, things don't seem off-kilter very often for us. Obviously we're doing SOMETHING right.

 

I think sometimes we're talking past each other because we're looking at things from different levels. "Groove"? That's 1st grade, garage band stuff. Yeah, if you're still trying to get your band out of the garage, you probably need to work on that. Or admit you don't have 'it' and give up already. Most of what I try to talk about is what to do once you've got your band past that and moving on to the next level. Seriously, I haven't done the garage band thing since about 1977. I've been working my {censored} out on stage ever since.

 

Funny, but I also notice that it seems most of the guys I go around with in this place are the people who are struggling to keep bands together and get out of the garage. Most of the guys in the solid, working, successful bands seem to agree with me more. They seem to 'get it'. While many of the guys sniff their nose at me have been through countless bands while I just keep trudging forward and upward and having a great time playing with my grooveless act.

 

And what's up with this {censored} about putting me down because we play a lot of weddings? Yeah, it's what we choose to do, we like it and we're good at it. And proud of being good at it. You put down bands and players because you don't like the KIND OF GIGS they choose to do? really? Is that kind of person you are? That's as dumb as putting down guys because they choose to play country or heavy metal. It's not about what you choose to do, but how well you succeed in your goals, isn't it?

 

And, sorry, but we knock 'em out of the park. Gig after gig after gig. Please don't tell me that bothers you, but it kinda seems like it does. If it does, then I respectfully suggest to step back and take the time to figure out what your problem is, because in that case, it isn't a problem with me. It's something you got going on inside.

[3shiftgtr]

I can only post and offer opinions and suggestions based on my experience. Which has been a GOOD, SUCCESSFUL experience. You have a different, but ALSO good and successful experience? Great! Let's hear your stories and advice. I may offer a counter-experience so people can weigh what will work best for their situation, but I won't tell you you're WRONG just because it isn't my experience or isn't a path I'd personally choose to take.

You've asserted that playing the music is the baby step. I say that wearing matching outfits and putting on a show is the baby step. I don't say stay in your basement if you have no show, I say stay in your basement if you have no music.

So we agree to disagree. Again.

Here's but one story since you asked (and I got a million of em):

Years back I was playing in a coverband with a rhythm section where the drummer was in the pocket and the bassist was pushing. Groove was just wonky.

But people danced cuz and we were successful at gigs cuz we worked the crowd and had a good set list and played the tunes well minus the groove being tight.

So I holla'd up the rhythm section and we all talked. They were vets and heard it too. In discussion we found out that the natural pusher bassist made the drummer feel like he needed to pull it back. So they talked about locking in more. It was forced at first. But......

.....2 gigs later and BOOM! The roof was on FYAH! When they got their groove together, every gig COOKED and the audience could feel it and they responded with enthusiasm like we had never seen.

Suddenly we didn't have to poke and prod and lay dance band shtick on em to get em on the dance floor. The groove FELT great and THAT made them want to dance. Made the band play with more enthusiasm and power. The pocket was just so THERE. My job playing rhythms was just "ahhhhhhhhhhh"....I could just nestle in the middle of this pocket they made and not have to find a place between the two.

I'm sure it's all relative cuz no one would be listening if we didn't have a great show.

[tim_7string]

You've asserted that playing the music is the baby step. I say that wearing matching outfits and putting on a show is the baby step. I don't say stay in your basement if you have no show, I say stay in your basement if you have no music. So we agree to disagree. Again. Here's but one story since you asked (and I got a million of em): Years back I was playing in a coverband with a rhythm section where the drummer was in the pocket and the bassist was pushing. Groove was just wonky. But people danced cuz and we were successful at gigs cuz we worked the crowd and had a good set list and played the tunes well minus the groove being tight. So I holla'd up the rhythm section and we all talked. They were vets and heard it too. In discussion we found out that the natural pusher bassist made the drummer feel like he needed to pull it back. So they talked about locking in more. It was forced at first. But...... .....2 gigs later and BOOM! The roof was on FYAH! When they got their groove together, every gig COOKED and the audience could feel it and they responded with enthusiasm like we had never seen. Suddenly we didn't have to poke and prod and lay dance band shtick on em to get em on the dance floor. The groove FELT great and THAT made them want to dance. Made the band play with more enthusiasm and power. The pocket was just so THERE. My job playing rhythms was just "ahhhhhhhhhhh"....I could just nestle in the middle of this pocket they made and not have to find a place between the two. I'm sure it's all relative cuz no one would be listening if we didn't have a great show.

 

My band rocked the local four-nighter this week, kept the crowd dancing and getting others to join in. I am not much of a talker and shtick kind of guy. I rely on the songs and the way we play them to do the job.

 

And you know what? It works. I have seen bands that drive out the people from the club. I have seen people leave because the band is too loud, or too obnoxious or played whatever the hell they wanted instead of responding to what works for the crowd.

 

We did all the right things without the big show. So, at least on some level, the music only approach still works and still matters.

[Lee Knight]

Well, like I said, I didn't think this thread really pertained to me or the things I'm most interested in and I wasn't inclined to respond in it, until somebody ELSE made those things 'the topic' and you apparently couldn't wait to jump in and turn into something personal with me. It's one thing to start a thread talking about groove and how it's important. I have no disagreement with that at all. But then finding the need to turn that into a thread full of snide remarks about "showmanship" and other such things? What's up with that? How does help keep things working around here and who exactly is only interested in the internet win in that case? While I'm not particularly interested in critiquing my band at this point, I'd first point out that you've never seen us. You really don't know how well we groove or not and certain can't judge how that connects to the audience. And I'd offer that if you're correct, and my band is missing groove, then that only serves to prove MY point. Because we connect AMAZINGLY well with our audiences. Gig after gig and night after night. Those results speak for themselves and are not subjective. So either we have more groove than you think, or it IS possible to fully connect to an audience and have a successful gig/band without it. And no, things don't seem off-kilter very often for us. Obviously we're doing SOMETHING right. I think sometimes we're talking past each other because we're looking at things from different levels. "Groove"? That's 1st grade, garage band stuff. Yeah, if you're still trying to get your band out of the garage, you probably need to work on that. Or admit you don't have 'it' and give up already. Most of what I try to talk about is what to do once you've got your band past that and moving on to the next level. Seriously, I haven't done the garage band thing since about 1977. I've been working my {censored} out on stage ever since. Funny, but I also notice that it seems most of the guys I go around with in this place are the people who are struggling to keep bands together and get out of the garage. Most of the guys in the solid, working, successful bands seem to agree with me more. They seem to 'get it'. While many of the guys sniff their nose at me have been through countless bands while I just keep trudging forward and upward and having a great time playing with my grooveless act. And what's up with this {censored} about putting me down because we play a lot of weddings? Yeah, it's what we choose to do, we like it and we're good at it. And proud of being good at it. You put down bands and players because you don't like the KIND OF GIGS they choose to do? really? Is that kind of person you are? That's as dumb as putting down guys because they choose to play country or heavy metal. It's not about what you choose to do, but how well you succeed in your goals, isn't it? And, sorry, but we knock 'em out of the park. Gig after gig after gig. Please don't tell me that bothers you , but it kinda seems like it does. If it does, then I respectfully suggest to step back and take the time to figure out what your problem is, because in that case, it isn't a problem with me. It's something you got going on inside.

 

 

 

 

"Groove"? That's 1st grade, garage band stuff."

 

^^^ This is my main point of contention with you. That you feel an ongoing discussion on showmanship and lights or what have you, all important things I agree, take precedence over something like groove. That somehow that's "1st grade". I'm pretty sure the Nevilles or NRBQ of Britney Spear's band would disagree and point out that for them it is an ongoing work in progress.

 

"And what's up with this {censored} about putting me down because we play a lot of weddings?"

 

^^^ I don't tease you because you play a lot of weddings, but in light of your attitude about topics like groove being "1st grade", it does not paint a pretty picture. Wedding gigs are great. But put assuming groove work is behind you, and the propensity for weddings gigs and corporates and... well, yeah, I guess you're missing my point about groove. But please don't infect guys coming up with that nonsense and sad oversight.

 

"we knock 'em out of the park. Gig after gig after gig. Please don't tell me that bothers you"

 

^^^ Of course it doesn't bother me. I love the thought of a band playing your type of gigs "knocking it out of the park." I truly hope that is the case. But once again, coupling the notion that groove work is behind you and 1st grade, and what I have heard of your band, well... I don't believe it.

 

And I would never say that except that you're preaching some pretty sad things to a bunch of young musicians. Like wave your hands like you just don't care and groove work should be behind you.

 

I think you are way off the track.

[Vito Corleone]

You've asserted that playing the music is the baby step. I say that wearing matching outfits and putting on a show is the baby step. I don't say stay in your basement if you have no show, I say stay in your basement if you have no music. So we agree to disagree. Again.

No disagreement, just a misunderstanding apparently. I've never said "stay in the basement if you have no show." The show is the icing on the cake. I agree. Stay in the basement if you have no music.

Somewhere it seems the idea has gotten out there that I support sucky bands putting on a show and getting by with that as if that's a good thing. I really don't think I've ever said such a thing, have I? I've said that the icing-on-the-cake stuff is one of the ways--if not absolutely essential--to taking your act to a higher level. I've never suggested anyone do it with out good music!

Years back I was playing in a coverband with a rhythm section where the drummer was in the pocket and the bassist was pushing. Groove was just wonky. But people danced cuz and we were successful at gigs cuz we worked the crowd and had a good set list and played the tunes well minus the groove being tight. So I holla'd up the rhythm section and we all talked. They were vets and heard it too. In discussion we found out that the natural pusher bassist made the drummer feel like he needed to pull it back. So they talked about locking in more. It was forced at first. But...... .....2 gigs later and BOOM! The roof was on FYAH! When they got their groove together, every gig COOKED and the audience could feel it and they responded with enthusiasm like we had never seen. Suddenly we didn't have to poke and prod and lay dance band shtick on em to get em on the dance floor. The groove FELT great and THAT made them want to dance. Made the band play with more enthusiasm and power. The pocket was just so THERE. My job playing rhythms was just "ahhhhhhhhhhh"....I could just nestle in the middle of this pocket they made and not have to find a place between the two.

Yes, I would think all of us have similar stories. I can tell that exact same story as well.

I'm sure it's all relative cuz no one would be listening if we didn't have a great show.

[Vito Corleone]

^^^ This is my main point of contention with you. That you feel an ongoing discussion on showmanship and lights or what have you, all important things I agree, take precedence over something like groove. That somehow that's "1st grade". I'm pretty sure the Nevilles or NRBQ of Britney Spear's band would disagree and point out that for them it is an ongoing work in progress.

Undoubtedly. I guess I have to take responsibility here but I really don't where you got this impression that I don't care about groove. Or that my band doesn't. One thing we do after every gig is play the recordings of the gig on the ride home and go over where we missed things and what needs works. Discussing tempos and transistions. Discussing who did and didn't feel this groove or that groove and what we need to do to lock-in better. And yeah, we also discuss vocal harmonies and visual show-pieces during that too because it all needs to lock in together.

EVERY band and EVERY musician does that, don't they? I guess I've come across with a somewhat dismissive attitude about having discussions of that sort of stuff and that's my mistake if I have, but it seriously only comes from the fact that I have been working in that manner for so many years now that I really just take it for granted. It's like discussing why and how I tune my guitar between every set.

I love the thought of a band playing your type of gigs "knocking it out of the park." I truly hope that is the case.

Trust me, it is. For us the definition of a successful gig is not only one where the dance-floor is full the entire night (since we're a dance band) but one where there is that "electric" feeling of excitement in the room---where the energy coming from the audience is pouring back at us in equal amount to what we're giving them. When the screams for "one more song" are so loud at the end of the night that we have nothing left to do but just smile at each other and pat ourselves on the back for knocking another one out of the park. Is that how wedding gigs are typically perceived as taking place? I don't think so. Our goal when doing weddings is to "take weddings to the next level". I feel we do that.

And I judge the success of the band by how consistantly our gigs are at this level. And since we play casuals, to completely different audiences every night, I don't consider that an easy task. But we do it pretty consistantly.

Of course, this isn't always the case and when we don't do that, it's a cause of great concern. But even our bad gigs are like the ones 3guitar described above--we still keep the dance floor full and happy because we're playing the right songs and going through the right motions that we know how to do. We haven't had a "where did everybody go during the last-set?" type of gig in a long, long time.

About a year ago we had a string of 'meh' gigs. It was right at the time that we were working in Amy and a new sound guy. Tiffany was convinced it was the sound guy---that he didn't get us the same "rocking" sound the previous guy did. (Yes, your mix a big part of how you connect to the audience as well. I don't talk about that much either. Does that mean I don't think mix is important?) I thought it was more that we were still in transition with finding our new groove as a six-piece rather than a five-piece. It never really occurred to me that simply adding a second VOCALIST might have an effect on the overall groove of the BAND, but I believe it did. Because it meant putting all of our heads in different places and we all had to find that new mental place for the type of band we had become. (In retrospect I think it was a combination of both our playing and the sound and the fact that we hit a string of gigs that would have been difficult under the best of circumstances. Some gigs the crowd is so great it's like taking candy from a baby. Others take much more work and effort to get them revved-up.)

Can I explain how we did that on paper? Not really. But we did, and after a few 'meh' gigs we're back on track with consistant "out-of-the-park" shows. I usually leave gigs feeling very satisfied and very proud. I'm not sure what else we're suppoed to do?

what I have heard of your band, well... I don't believe it.

I don't know what to tell you. Either we're better than the impression you've gotten from the bits I've posted here, or we're just not your cup of tea, or the standards of the audiences we play for are much lower than who you play for (for whatever reason that might be), or whatever. If you're ever in the area, I'll invite you to stop by one our gigs and maybe you'll get a better impression of what it is we do every show. Or not. Frankly, I can't really be too concerned about what YOU think of it. The audiences sure seem to like what we do. I can't really ask for --or strive for-- anything more than that.

Here's something that relates to the topic I think, but maybe you have a different perspective. Check out the testimonials for the band on our 'clients' page:

http://www.jumpstartyourparty.com/clients.cfm

Notice how many times the word "energy" comes up. Why that word? Why is it that so many different people describe us a band with "energy"? It is possible to create a performance that connects to the audience as "energy" without at least SOME measure of decent "groove"? I would say not.

[Lee Knight]

Well, I'm glad you take me too seriously because I'm not too serious about my remarks. I'm all about ongoing musical development though and tend to get very protective over the concept and its practitioners.

[joshmac]

So THIS is what happens when you get old. You guys are insane

[toddkuen]

Wade - I think just recording, thinking about and reviewing your practices via video as a band are plenty good for guiding improvement. I think the improvement between the two videos is significant particularly given the relatively short span of time between the two. Just keep at it and make it sound like you want it too. Playing that out if you aren't already will improve things too in my opinion.

 

Too bad a simple request for a critique devolves into tedious epic poetry...

[Vito Corleone]

I think they, and I said they, need to get a good solid singing front man to really carry this off. But he made the point that "all in good time".

 

 

Yep. And I agree to give him that time as well.

 

One thing I will suggest though, is that they can probably get much more vocally out of the pieces they have rather than just waiting around for a killer frontperson. Some well-placed harmony vocals can go a long way towards adding polish and professionalism to a band. In my band's previous incarnation as a 5-piece/no front man band we took things pretty far (the $1500 a night corp gig level) by working on having decent harmonies and finding songs that lent to the strengths of the individual lead singers. We had a lot of 'vocal only' rehearsals. Most of them were pretty tedious and annoying. A lot of nights were spent with guys saying "that sounds pretty good, let's move on" and me saying "no it doesn't. Let's run over that bit a few more times". Nobody, in my experience, seems to really like to spend much time sitting around singing harmony unless it sounds good---but if it already sounds good, you don't need to work on it.

 

It's often like pulling teeth to get guys to practice singing, but good vocals really IS what separates the garage bands from the polished, pro acts more than anything else, IMO.

[Vito Corleone]

So THIS is what happens when you get old. You guys are insane

 

 

Dementia, along with deafness and the propensity to not know that it was time to cut your hair already years ago, is a common malady for aging musicians.

[Lee Knight]

So THIS is what happens when you get old. You guys are insane

 

 

Absolutely!!!!

[wesg]

Hey, Wade -- does your drummer have a vocal monitor? If not, adding some monitors might really help. If he's a really loud drummer, you can add one on each side out of phase so that they cancel out at the microphone (phase cancellation does not happen in the brain).

This is much much better than before, there is a lot more musicality there, but the vocal still sounds "forced" to me. Drumming like that and singing can't be easy. Is he doing daily cardio? Improving aerobic capacity certainly will not hurt; hopefully he does not smoke cigarettes.

And I like your playing. And your hat.

Wes

[rsadasiv]

Actionsquid goes on a lovely, well deserved holiday to Hawaii, comes back filled with peace and aloha, and then has to moderate this?

[Piano Whore]

@ David, I used to think this was your "formula"(and I apologize for the over-simplication): Start with 4 at least average players who get along and can be depended on to learn new songs well enough to get through the first time live without clams, add at least one hot chickie (perhaps more later, on the hot chickie installment plan), work up the PERFECT crowd-pleasing set-list, tweaked for regional tastes, make sure the vocals, lead and harmony, are in tune and that the band CONNECTS WITH THE AUDIENCE.

 

But actually, who could disagree with THAT? My group had similar priorities, even. Although I HAVE seen a local long-running group that relied too heavily on multiple vivacious girlies out front wearing wigs, sexy outfits and whatnot, that couldn't cut it when the wedding market here tightened up, because their musicianship couldn't hang with their competitors. Mainly because the weak link in the group was the unfire-able band founder and leader- not true in your case (other than the "unfire-able" part ).

 

I tend to be a little antagonistic to an actual or perceived "musicians are a dime-a-dozen" mindset, same as you may be antagonistic towards what you see as "music as a religion" psycho-babble. FWIW I've seen many musicians who were better at 45 than 30, can't think of any of them that SUCKED at 30 though..also don't know about the idea that the most successful musicians are in the fewest bands during the course of their "career", although that definitely is nothing to be ashamed of. Sometimes an individual can outgrow those around them. At the very least they need an outlet. BTW I got a lol out of your "dementia, deafness, and not realizing they need to cut their hair" comment. 2 out of 3 ain't bad, is it? .

[Vito Corleone]

@ David, I used to think this was your "formula"(and I apologize for the over-simplication): Start with 4 at least average players who get along and can be depended on to learn new songs well enough to get through the first time live without clams, add at least one hot chickie (perhaps more later, on the hot chickie installment plan), work up the PERFECT crowd-pleasing set-list, tweaked for regional tastes, make sure the vocals, lead and harmony, are in tune and that the band CONNECTS WITH THE AUDIENCE.

 

 

Well, it kinda IS a formula I promote for guys over a certain age looking to establish or restart their careers in music who don't want to be hanging out in the bars anymore and have a limited amount of time to devote to music.

 

The trick becomes eventually distinguishing yourself in the marketplace because so many other bands choose the same route. But that's another topic for another day.

 

As I've said many times, I've got no problem -- and greatly admire -- bands who go way outside the box in terms of style, genre, etc and still find good success. My only comment on those bands is pretty much all the ones I can think of who can be described as such have spend YEARS, if not DECADES building up their reputations in the market. And again, those bands usually aren't the ones coming to a place like this looking for tips. They already know what they doing. All I try to do, really, is offer some shortcuts so bands can maybe spend 2 years doing what might otherwise take 10.

 

As far as playing ability goes? Yes. Play your ass off. Play the best you can. Work on being better. If there's some guy in the band holding your band back, think about replacing him with a better player. All I've ever really said about that is: hey. This is rock n roll we're talking about. There have been, and always will be bands made up of average, and sometimes even below-average players that can do very well in the business. Just because you may not be the most musically fantastic band out there doesn't mean your musical life should be over or only limited to the {censored}tiest gigs you can scrounge up.

 

You can practice things to death sometimes trying to get things perfect. If I waiting until I was the best player I could be before I started a band, I'd still be in my mamma's basement. At some point you just have to get out there and rock it out and sell it and make it work. The point is to have FUN. Don't get too caught up worrying about whether some other musician thinks you suck or not. Who cares?

 

 

I tend to be a little antagonistic to an actual or perceived "musicians are a dime-a-dozen" mindset, same as you may be antagonistic towards what you see as "music as a religion" psycho-babble.

 

 

I get that, and that's cool. I don't know if my attitude is that musicians are a dime-a-dozen, but what I DO know is that guys you can get along well with are not. And clicking with guys on both a personal and musical level is what makes playing in bands more fun than work, IMO.

 

 

FWIW I've seen many musicians who were better at 45 than 30, can't think of any of them that SUCKED at 30 though..also don't know about the idea that the most successful musicians are in the fewest bands during the course of their "career",

 

 

I didn't mean it to come out quite like that. I was trying to point out more that the BANDS have been successful, which is why they stayed together a long time. (And that I've been a part of making them successful so I can't be ALL bad...) But yeah, some of the best and most successful musicians I've ever known have never even really PLAYED in a 'band'. Or at least not longer than for one tour or something.

 

But on one hand you have the real pro hired-gun type of guys who never really stay in one band long, but whom I consider REAL musicians (and all certainly much better players than me) and the guys who flit around from band-to-band always in search of something 'better'.

[BATCAT]

Actionsquid goes on a lovely, well deserved holiday to Hawaii, comes back filled with peace and aloha, and then has to moderate this?

 

Can someone else please read this whole thing for me and tell me what action, if any needs to be taken? I don't really feel like it.

 

Mentally, I'm still here:

[rsadasiv]

Can someone else please read this whole thing for me and tell me what action, if any needs to be taken? I don't really feel like it. Mentally, I'm still here:

 

La la la - I'm feeling the aloha - la la la

 

[Vito Corleone]