Members BigMac5 Posted June 7, 2007 Members Share Posted June 7, 2007 Any Hard Rock I've ever been to is quite a bit bigger than the venues I'm focusing on here. I'd never do a Hard Rock without a sub or 2. This one is kind of small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted June 7, 2007 Moderators Share Posted June 7, 2007 This one is kind of small. I can see why you would be in the middle on that one and didn't bring your subs the first time. It does appear to be quite a bit smaller than many Hard Rocks. Count yourself lucky, though. That's still quite a bit bigger than a couple of the sardine cans I'm talking about. BTW, Norton666, sorry I kind of took over the thread, but it was a pretty timely question for me, too. A really good thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thunderpaw Posted June 7, 2007 Members Share Posted June 7, 2007 This one is kind of small. Oooh, nice place-I bet they pay well! Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fingerpicker Posted June 7, 2007 Members Share Posted June 7, 2007 I find many acoustic players to have very poor technique and hyping the lows accentuates the poor technique. I took six years of classical lessons, graduated with a Bachelors in MusicEd (classical guitar), taught music and up to 46 students a week. My technique if fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jess Posted June 7, 2007 Members Share Posted June 7, 2007 Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted June 8, 2007 Moderators Share Posted June 8, 2007 I took six years of classical lessons, graduated with a Bachelors in MusicEd (classical guitar), taught music and up to 46 students a week. My technique if fine.Is there something I typed that upset your manhood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fingerpicker Posted June 8, 2007 Members Share Posted June 8, 2007 Hey don't use subs, I don't care. If you think an acoustic guitar has no business in the sub-mix than thats you're opinion. I certainly don't agree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted June 8, 2007 Moderators Share Posted June 8, 2007 Hey don't use subs, I don't care. If you think an acoustic guitar has no business in the sub-mix than thats you're opinion. I certainly don't agree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dandy Don Posted June 8, 2007 Members Share Posted June 8, 2007 Now why would you not use your sub's, even the small room's need sub's. Your gonna be in a beer garden, all the more reason to use them! I know it sounds like a broken record but we pick up a lot of work at outdoor show's. Why not sound your best bring your sub's!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted June 8, 2007 Members Share Posted June 8, 2007 Why not sound your best bring your sub's!! BINGO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted June 8, 2007 Moderators Share Posted June 8, 2007 Why not sound your best bring your sub's!! Because a lot of people don't think it small rooms that subs make you sound best. Sometimes the band actually has to play good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassred Posted June 8, 2007 Members Share Posted June 8, 2007 Well, now you're just confusing quality of audio wit quality of performance, which have nothing to do with each other. I've seen plenty of bands with and without subs who suck, and plenty of bands that don't suck, most of them use subs...... You can 'mix from the backline' but it is a very fine line between 'OK' and 'Blah' because as soon as the amount of people in front of the band changes, so does the sound, and you can't possibly be on top of everyones individual adjustments to fill in the room apropriately. This is why Sound Reinforcement has gone the way it has, you want clean highs, full mids and fat bass, and you just can't get the same level of controled or polished without proper equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted June 8, 2007 Members Share Posted June 8, 2007 If the band plays good enough, maybe you can leave the tops home too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted June 8, 2007 Members Share Posted June 8, 2007 Give me some ideas. What should I put them on? and how high do I need them to be? A pair of milk crate a piece will be about right...plus, the crates are handy for carrying other (small) gear items. Before I wised up to smaller FOH cabs on stands, this is how we did it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted June 8, 2007 Moderators Share Posted June 8, 2007 Well, now you're just confusing quality of audio wit quality of performance, which have nothing to do with each other. I've seen plenty of bands with and without subs who suck, and plenty of bands that don't suck, most of them use subs...... You can 'mix from the backline' but it is a very fine line between 'OK' and 'Blah' because as soon as the amount of people in front of the band changes, so does the sound, and you can't possibly be on top of everyones individual adjustments to fill in the room apropriately. This is why Sound Reinforcement has gone the way it has, you want clean highs, full mids and fat bass, and you just can't get the same level of controled or polished without proper equipment.I'm not mixing them up at all. Look at the picture of the Hard Rock . . . . . . .half that room (perhaps even less). . . . . . . .and lower the ceiling. Smaller stage, too. Please don't honestly tell me that gig needs a sub to sound great. People clap to the snare, not the kick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted June 8, 2007 Moderators Share Posted June 8, 2007 If the band plays good enough, maybe you can leave the tops home too! This forum actually used to be filled with helpful and knowledgeable people, not people who thought every gig needed subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted June 8, 2007 Members Share Posted June 8, 2007 This forum actually used to be filled with helpful and knowledgeable people, not people who thought every gig needed subs.His/her post made perfect sense. Just not to you, evidently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarharv52 Posted June 9, 2007 Members Share Posted June 9, 2007 Yes we use them even at small gigs.Not only because we think it's better with them but our mains are pole mounted over them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members deepblue Posted June 9, 2007 Members Share Posted June 9, 2007 subs+beer garden=cops w/noise complaints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassred Posted June 9, 2007 Members Share Posted June 9, 2007 I'm not mixing them up at all. Look at the picture of the Hard Rock . . . . . . .half that room (perhaps even less). . . . . . . .and lower the ceiling. Smaller stage, too. Please don't honestly tell me that gig needs a sub to sound great. People clap to the snare, not the kick. So, the music is driven and felt through the snare, that's just plain worng, brother. the low end is what helps to boost the level of exitement without needing to blast everyones heads off (guitar players please re-read that statement). if you want a lowly 'splat' from an unmiked, or less than properly reinforced kick drum then go ahead, obviously the folks in your area don't care or know their way around music. Remember, you can always turn the master down, so therefore, no cops. I can get us as low as we need to be (given the drummer has to be on the same page) and keep a full, PA with sub mix going that will sound more clean, more professional, and more pleasing to the ear. it's your world, brother, just don't ask for opinions and then tell us we're all wrong for having our own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J. Posted June 9, 2007 Members Share Posted June 9, 2007 My current group doesn't need subs, but then again our instrumentation is one or two acoustic guitars, one upright bass, and one snare drum played with brushes. We play vintage country at low volumes in small venues. Since we don't have a kick drum or electric bass, subs aren't an absolute necessity. If I was in a rock or metal band I'd definitely bring subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted June 9, 2007 Members Share Posted June 9, 2007 This forum actually used to be filled with helpful and knowledgeable people, not people who thought every gig needed subs. Trying to encourage a band to sound the best they can, especially when they have the equipment to do it seems both helpful and knowledgeable to me. I don't think anyone said you have to bring subs at every gig... IMO they are not ''essential'' in an acoustic guitar+vocal duo or similar type of performance, although they may certainly help, especially in bigger venues. But as soon as you add a drumset, things change. The snare, high hat and cymbals don't usually need amplification. The kick drum however, DOES. If you don't mic it, you simply don't hear it over guitars, bass and vocals that are all amplified. Sure, you can put it through a full range cabinet and you will hear it somewhat, but a sub will really let you feel it, and will make the overall sound of the band much cleaner (more headroom in your tops) and fuller because of the added lower frequencies, since that's what they are designed to do. I'm reminded of the story of the three little pigs. All three pigs had the materials available to build the best house they could. The pig who worked hardest and built the best house possible is certainly the one who's looking good at the end of the story... Al - Party-Time! DJ Services Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted June 9, 2007 Members Share Posted June 9, 2007 I don't bring the subs to most of the smaller gigs we do, Why? I'm lazy and kick drums are pretty loud already. I'd rather mix the band to the kick drum, not try and bring a kick drum up to a too-loud band. Bigger gigs, I'll bring 4 15+horn tops and get a little something moving. Then there are the gigs needing subs. I'm probably in the minority there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted June 9, 2007 Members Share Posted June 9, 2007 subs+beer garden=cops w/noise complaints No. Not unless you play louder than they want you to play. And that can easily happen with or w/o subs. The vast majority of us understand that using subs doesn't necessarily equate to higher SPL. And, in fact, many times a band will seem louder w/o them, even if a DB meter showed otherwise. And I would think that even a half-assed club would have the volume thing figured out before deciding to do outdoor stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members obgust Posted June 9, 2007 Members Share Posted June 9, 2007 We rehearse with subs. We have taylored our sound around the use of subs and would miss them at any gig we did not bring them to. And since life is short and our time is dear, it is important to us that we sound the best we can at all times, for our sake as well as the clients. Sometimes we'll bring one instead of two, but we'd never go without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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