Members RoadRanger Posted September 2, 2011 Members Share Posted September 2, 2011 Also, if dynamic range is important, you might wantto look at the burst RMS rating as say 100mSec which is MUCH more real world oriented. 20mSec is fine for say 500Hz on up, but that's not real world for most of the applications I suspect this amp will be used in.I very carefully said that I considered 20ms burst power to be more realistic than rms power but did not say it is the best. Sure, 100ms sounds even better to me. Some real world measurements of the passbands of a large system (quad amp'd ?) showed that none exceeded a 15db crest factor and suggest that would be better still. OTOH in some applications such as running an overdriven SVT modeler into a power amp you might even exceed the 3db crest factor of a sine wave so I can understand your interest in an amp's rms ratings . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted September 2, 2011 Members Share Posted September 2, 2011 The problem is there is no accepted "standard" for burst testing audio amplifiers.Yah, the years have seen quite a few "standards" come and go. Anybody remember IHF power ? When I was with Peavey we did burst test early versions of the IPR amps and the numbers jump up quite a bit. Other manufacturers have been providing burst test specs for years ... notably Yamaha and the king of burst spec power figures Lab GruppenThanks for the reply ! I'll guess that they "jump up" 1-2db like the iNukes do? I seem to remember the old Crowns (D series) having particularly rubbery rails and hitting 3db+ . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted September 2, 2011 Members Share Posted September 2, 2011 Anybody remember IHF power Those were burst tests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted September 2, 2011 Members Share Posted September 2, 2011 Those were burst testsYah, I just don't remember the specifics - and I think there were a couple different revs of that spec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 2, 2011 Members Share Posted September 2, 2011 I very carefully said that I considered 20ms burst power to be more realistic than rms power but did not say it is the best. Sure, 100ms sounds even better to me. Some real world measurements of the passbands of a large system (quad amp'd ?) showed that none exceeded a 15db crest factor and suggest that would be better still. OTOH in some applications such as running an overdriven SVT modeler into a power amp you might even exceed the 3db crest factor of a sine wave so I can understand your interest in an amp's rms ratings . A few cycles of burst at 50Hz would be well beyond the rating of 20mSec, that's why between the two options, RMS continuous has much more value. IF it was a 100mSec burst, I would probably look at that rating first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted September 2, 2011 Members Share Posted September 2, 2011 A few cycles of burst at 50Hz would be well beyond the rating of 20mSec, that's why between the two options, RMS continuous has much more value. IF it was a 100mSec burst, I would probably look at that rating first.One of these days I'll have to capture a kickdrum "hit" going into and out of the sub amp on my DSO. Everything else is generally 6+ db down from that. I'd suspect that is fairly common with generic R&R? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 2, 2011 Members Share Posted September 2, 2011 One of these days I'll have to capture a kickdrum "hit" going into and out of the sub amp on my DSO. Everything else is generally 6+ db down from that. I'd suspect that is fairly common with generic R&R? What about bass guitar and keys? The LF information on both of these is important too. Kick including the decay envelop down 3dB is probably 60-80mSec on a big drum and that's alonmg with everything else since we don't listen to kick by itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted September 2, 2011 Members Share Posted September 2, 2011 What about bass guitar and keys? The LF information on both of these is important too.Unless the mix is compressed that's 6+db down from the kick's peak.Kick including the decay envelop down 3dB is probably 60-80mSec on a big drumYah, I would have guesstimated 100ms +-.and that's along with everything else since we don't listen to kick by itself.Yes, if the kick is the same peak-to-peak as the kick and you're just tickling the limiter lights with both goin' the bass would be 6db down from the limiters, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 3, 2011 Members Share Posted September 3, 2011 No. You are making assumptions that do not IMO hold true. (remember, I have designed more than my fair share of amps) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted September 3, 2011 Members Share Posted September 3, 2011 No. You are making assumptions that do not IMO hold true.Those being? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members VanHalen Posted September 3, 2011 Members Share Posted September 3, 2011 What is the overall sound quality of the IPR Class D amps? Does anyone here even own one of the iNukes? I have heard people say that the Class D amps have weak sound quality compared to conventional amps... is that just a myth? I was SO ready to buy one of these iNukes... but when I couldn't find any reviews by someone who actually owns one or has heard one, I went ahead and bought two Behringer EP4000s on eBay for $300 each. I'm guess I'll just sell them in six months for $250 each and then buy the RIGHT lightweight amps after I have researched the topic a little more. I'd really like to hear from someone who owns the Peavey IPR amps... how does the sound quality and reliability compare to the Peavey CS amp series? Is there any truth to the rumors that these amps have a lot to be desired in sound quality and performance? P.S. - It's hard to beat the 4000-watt EP4000 for $300 each! They are the best amp for the dollar by far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted September 3, 2011 Members Share Posted September 3, 2011 Did you bother to read this thread before posting to it? No, I didn't think so . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stangconv Posted September 3, 2011 Members Share Posted September 3, 2011 Been using 3 IPR amps for coming up a year... Still going strong. Sound awesome. They have a 5 year warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SoundMan Posted September 3, 2011 Members Share Posted September 3, 2011 " I believe that Behringer has been in the Class D business for longer than Peavey has too - in their powered mixer and speaker lines." Seriously? We've been building Class D amps longer than Behringer has been in business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 3, 2011 Members Share Posted September 3, 2011 Those being? Just about everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 3, 2011 Members Share Posted September 3, 2011 P.S. - It's hard to beat the 4000-watt EP4000 for $300 each! They are the best amp for the dollar by far. Except that they aren't 4000 watt amps... they are 2000 watt amps marketed specifically to folks like you who don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted September 3, 2011 Members Share Posted September 3, 2011 " I believe that Behringer has been in the Class D business for longer than Peavey has too - in their powered mixer and speaker lines." Seriously? We've been building Class D amps longer than Behringer has been in business. Yeah but Behringer has been stealing/copying longer than anybody in the business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 3, 2011 Members Share Posted September 3, 2011 I believe that Behringer has been in the Class D business for longer than Peavey has too - in their powered mixer and speaker lines. You believe so wrongly here that it's embarrassing. Peavey made their first class D amp before Behringer was even a company. They own IP that was developed for the DPC models back in the 1980's: Here's some info that might help: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=2&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=70&f=G&l=50&co1=OR&d=PTXT&s1=peavey.ASNM.&OS=AN/peavey&RS=AN/peavey http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=2&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=71&f=G&l=50&co1=OR&d=PTXT&s1=peavey.ASNM.&OS=AN/peavey&RS=AN/peavey http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=2&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=79&f=G&l=50&co1=OR&d=PTXT&s1=peavey.ASNM.&OS=AN/peavey&RS=AN/peavey http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=2&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=84&f=G&l=50&co1=OR&d=PTXT&s1=peavey.ASNM.&OS=AN/peavey&RS=AN/peavey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted September 3, 2011 Members Share Posted September 3, 2011 Good heavens I forgot about those DECA amps. Those were Class D? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted September 3, 2011 Members Share Posted September 3, 2011 Good heavens I forgot about those DECA amps. Those were Class D? I use to have 2 of the Deca 528s. Nice and light but I had to run an external fan on them or they would cut out for a second or two. My roommate at the time had a 724 that didn't have that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 4, 2011 Members Share Posted September 4, 2011 Good heavens I forgot about those DECA amps. Those were Class D? Absolutely, and they were (I am pretty sure) the very first commercial audio oriented class D amps, and IIRC were SMPS as well (it's been a long time since I've seen one). Shows you how far behind Behringer really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted September 4, 2011 Members Share Posted September 4, 2011 ... and how ahead of their time Peavey was incorporating Class D technology in a commercial power amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 4, 2011 Members Share Posted September 4, 2011 ... and how ahead of their time Peavey was incorporating Class D technology in a commercial power amp. Unfortunately, a bit too far ahead. Reliability was not their strong suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted September 4, 2011 Members Share Posted September 4, 2011 The EP4000 is actually rated at 1250WPC @ 2 ohms. The IPR3000 has a bit more power into 2 ohms but a bit less into 4 and 8 ohms. The EP4000 is basically a slight modification of the older EP2500 with improved power specs (better output devices? Higher but less solid rail voltages?) at 4 and 8 ohms. The EP1500/2000/2500/4000 amps are one of 'ringer's better products. A used RMX2450 for about the same money is a better buy IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 4, 2011 Members Share Posted September 4, 2011 Do you know if the "RMS" power is based on a 20mSec burst? That would correspond to the approximate peak power under continuous IME. a 2450 would be a much better buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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