Members dimibetan Posted May 16, 2018 Members Share Posted May 16, 2018 Hi Wood Experts, I ordered a custom-made 000 which is currently being done by a famous Philippine guitar maker. The price for the order is round $600.I just want to confirm and know your inputs the woods they used. Top is a booked-match solid AAA Engelmann Spruce, solid Afzelia Rhomboidea (locally, they call it 'Bayong' - also 'Mahogany') back/sides and Philippine Cedar neck with Macassar Ebony stringer. I'm not an expert on wood, their weight and tonality. Maybe you guys can help me out and say something about them. Cheers [img2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/image.ibb.co\/fqFwbJ\/32507921_1737159269656446_7299298628948983808_n.jpg"}[/img2][img2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/image.ibb.co\/gcPdqd\/32661348_1737159299656443_1728019777319862272_n.jpg"}[/img2][img2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/image.ibb.co\/nMxbbJ\/32595122_1737159329656440_3837463015943307264_n.jpg"}[/img2][img2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/image.ibb.co\/hTVJqd\/32536943_1737159362989770_1274358174438129664_n.jpg"}[/img2][img2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/image.ibb.co\/ht1f3y\/32525922_1737159419656431_6621674526193221632_n.jpg"}[/img2][img2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/image.ibb.co\/mWZdqd\/32637217_1737159526323087_7101559292418850816_n.jpg"}[/img2] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 I'm not a wood expert, and most of those woods (besides the ebony and spruce, and possibly the cedar) I've never come across before on a guitar... but it looks nice. Did the builder give you any suggestions about wood choices or describe the tonal qualities of the wood he's using to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dimibetan Posted May 16, 2018 Author Members Share Posted May 16, 2018 I'm not a wood expert, and most of those woods (besides the ebony and spruce, and possibly the cedar) I've never come across before on a guitar... but it looks nice. Did the builder give you any suggestions about wood choices or describe the tonal qualities of the wood he's using to you? Thanks Phil Initially, I requested for Mahogany b/s and these are what they have. They are saying that these are 'Premium Mahogany' but called 'Bayong' locally. As per my research, 'Bayong' is Afzelia Rhomboidea and nothing relates to it as Mahogany. They look nice though (look exotic than Mahogany) so I'm not complaining so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 How soon do they expect to have it finished for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dimibetan Posted May 16, 2018 Author Members Share Posted May 16, 2018 How soon do they expect to have it finished for you? Around July Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 Around July Cool - please post lots of pics (and a clip or two wouldn't hurt either) when it's finally finished and in your hands. Seriously - I'd be very interested in hearing how it sounds once it is finished. I'm curious about those woods now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted May 16, 2018 Members Share Posted May 16, 2018 Here is what my wood database says about it http://www.wood-database.com/afzelia/ They say it does compare with mahogany. Important characteristic for a tone wood include density and stiffness (Youngs modulus). From the database this seems to be both denser and stiffer than African mahogany and very similar to EIR. I would expect the guitar to be heavier than one built with mahogany.. A good builder compensates for stiffness and strength by the way he braces the guitar - if he has worked with this wood then he will know what to do. Worksmanship looks fine but I am not crazy about the non quartered neck. The fact that it is laminated should help with stability. I don't know what "Philippine cedar" is - a common wood for necks is "Spanish cedar" which is neither a cedar nor from Spain. The wood does not seem to be on any of the endangered lists so you shouldn't have any problems taking it across boarders. I don't know about guitars built in the Philippines but in other parts of southern Asia frequently high humidity can be a problem. Looking forward to pictures when its done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted May 17, 2018 Members Share Posted May 17, 2018 One other question - is your builder planning to install a truss rod or is he relying on the ebony lamination to provide control of the relief? A few builders do the latter - it does make a lighter neck but in my humble opinion it doesn't leave you any options to control the neck. The reason I ask it that most of the time the slot will be milled before the neck is shaped - its easier to align the router. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted May 17, 2018 Moderators Share Posted May 17, 2018 actually: Afzelia is on the IUCN Red List for sustainability. The typical use I'm aware of for Philippine cedar wood is cigar boxes... and yes, humidity is a huge concern in much of the PI...as is the saltiness of the moisture. Kills strings in Manila in a month or so...gotta have coated strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted May 17, 2018 Members Share Posted May 17, 2018 I'm not familiar with IUCN but it does not appear to be an CITES appendix I or II wood. Always good to get that documentation for any guitar that you plan to take across boarders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted May 19, 2018 Members Share Posted May 19, 2018 If you stained it dark it might pass for Brazilian rosewood. But you'd probably have to stain the inside too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted May 22, 2018 Members Share Posted May 22, 2018 I installed 300 square feet of Afzalia (Doussie) flooring in my house. That's some hard stuff. Burned out 4 miter saw veneer blades. Anyway, the PI is humid, the shop is not environmentally controlled, so all that humidity (expanded state) is built into the guitar. Things will get interesting when it's exposed to a drier climate and the box, assembled with materials that expand and contract at different rates and extents, starts to contract as it dries out to the new RH. Check the fret ends when you first get it and keep checking them over the acclimation period of a couple weeks. You might attempt to get a reading on this famous builder's fame. Fact or fiction? Who rates him and where do they live (climate-wise). I think I'd pass on the build because of the humidity differential and lack of controls by the builder. There's another famous VN builder who ships stateside. So far those who commissioned builds from him have remained silent about the status of his products. Sorry to go all Frank Luke on it but due diligence and all that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted May 22, 2018 Members Share Posted May 22, 2018 Actually they haven't gone all silent, there was an article in Fretboard Journal a while back about people buying a couple of Mr B's guitars and bringing them back to the States (PNW to be specific). They had issues which is why I brought up the possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dimibetan Posted May 29, 2018 Author Members Share Posted May 29, 2018 They did say that their guitars are assembled in a temperature and humidity controlled room. Anyway, here are the updates where they applied lacquer: [img2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/image.ibb.co\/mEAfdJ\/33524370_1747117625327277_5994979960949833728_n.jpg"}[/img2][img2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/image.ibb.co\/iQBmJJ\/33662024_1747117655327274_421652998331039744_n.jpg"}[/img2][img2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/image.ibb.co\/hYicQy\/33501894_1747117668660606_7774587337786261504_n.jpg"}[/img2][img2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/image.ibb.co\/dfMxQy\/33608641_1747117708660602_2918072412366962688_n.jpg"}[/img2] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dimibetan Posted May 29, 2018 Author Members Share Posted May 29, 2018 Neck glued with the ebony board. No lacquer nor stain application yet. The neck beside it is Sapele. I chose the cedar because they say its lighter. [img2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/image.ibb.co\/m5SRJJ\/33745985_1749885258383847_5008063391919505408_n.jpg"}[/img2][img2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/image.ibb.co\/iGTYyJ\/33994728_1749885205050519_9089489655606280192_n.jpg"}[/img2] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dimibetan Posted May 29, 2018 Author Members Share Posted May 29, 2018 Yes. Truss rod access will be at the soundhole. I also noticed that they shaped the neck before milling the slot. Weird but they are building guitars since 1919. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dimibetan Posted May 29, 2018 Author Members Share Posted May 29, 2018 I did actually. You can Google them if you like to check them out: Ferangeli Guitar Handcrafter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted May 29, 2018 Members Share Posted May 29, 2018 Looks good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted May 29, 2018 Members Share Posted May 29, 2018 Looking good so far. I look forward to seeing the finished guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Neal Posted June 4, 2018 Members Share Posted June 4, 2018 I installed 300 square feet of Afzalia (Doussie) flooring in my house. That's some hard stuff. Burned out 4 miter saw veneer blades. Anyway, the PI is humid, the shop is not environmentally controlled, so all that humidity (expanded state) is built into the guitar. Things will get interesting when it's exposed to a drier climate and the box, assembled with materials that expand and contract at different rates and extents, starts to contract as it dries out to the new RH. Check the fret ends when you first get it and keep checking them over the acclimation period of a couple weeks. You might attempt to get a reading on this famous builder's fame. Fact or fiction? Who rates him and where do they live (climate-wise). I think I'd pass on the build because of the humidity differential and lack of controls by the builder. There's another famous VN builder who ships stateside. So far those who commissioned builds from him have remained silent about the status of his products. Sorry to go all Frank Luke on it but due diligence and all that... Holy smokes, I remember getting flamed pretty badly for observing this...you guys must’ve woke! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dimibetan Posted July 2, 2018 Author Members Share Posted July 2, 2018 To pickguard or not to pickguard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dimibetan Posted July 2, 2018 Author Members Share Posted July 2, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted July 2, 2018 Members Share Posted July 2, 2018 That is quite stunning, thanks for the follow up. I don't put pickguards on my guitars but then I never use a pick. A clear one might be a good choice if you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nabisco Posted July 2, 2018 Members Share Posted July 2, 2018 Yikes, that is gorgeous! Congratulations and use it in good health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted July 2, 2018 Members Share Posted July 2, 2018 Oh, my. That turned out very pretty, didn't it? Stunning guitar. I'd probably lean toward a clear or basic black pickguard if you need one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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