Fret level work......

[Freeman Keller]

Good job on the fret job, LPL. Let me make one comment on dremels and fretwork - be really careful on a bound f/b - you can burn thru the binding in no time at all. In fact, don't use a dremel on a bound f/b. FWIW I almost never use a dremel on frets period - just go up thru the grades of Micro Mesh.

[AlamoJoe]

Great thread guys! Good on ya LPL!

 

[Les Paul Lover]

Good job on the fret job' date=' LPL. Let me make one comment on dremels and fretwork - be really careful on a bound f/b - you can burn thru the binding in no time at all. In fact, don't use a dremel on a bound f/b. FWIW I almost never use a dremel on frets period - just go up thru the grades of Micro Mesh.[/quote']

 

Thank you.

 

In any case, at least with the diamond files I used, a dremel isn't an option straight after filing or you would need an actual filing wheel and I wouldn't trust that - removing too much material would be a real concern.

 

The filing marks were best removed with 400 grit then 600 and 800. There you have great control, and the process is gradual enough that you can see exactly when you can stop.

 

I liked that degree of control.

I suppose you could use different grades of polishing implements thereafter, but to be honest, since you only to pass over the fret 2 or 3 times with each subsequent grade of sand paper and micromesh, it's very fast by hand - perhaps even faster as you can go up and down the neck, as opposed to doing it one fret at a time with the dremel.

 

Both methods I'm sure would give excellent results, after it's a matter of choice or tools available.

 

Good heads up on binding = no dremel though. Thanks.

[catscurlyear]

i made my own file for the re shaping of the frets ,crowning or fret dress whatever it`s called. i used the same one for years ,it was just a small regular file with a small plastic handle the file was roughly 6" long 1/4" wide, i ground on a grind wheel and then smoothed and polished all along one side of the file so that it didn`t dig into the masked wood of the neck while shaping the frets it worked good , i had a specialy made fret file with the shape of the top of the fret but that didn`t work very well.

[DeepEnd]

Happy New(ly crowned) Frets Day. Looks great and I'm glad you were able to do the job yourself.

 

If you just need shiny frets' date=' Flitz will do.[/quote']

I use steel wool for that. I've only used Flitz on guns.

[Les Paul Lover]

i made my own file for the re shaping of the frets ' date='crowning or fret dress whatever it`s called. i used the same one for years ,it was just a small regular file with a small plastic handle the file was roughly 6" long 1/4" wide, i ground on a grind wheel and then smoothed and polished all along one side of the file so that it didn`t dig into the masked wood of the neck while shaping the frets it worked good , i had a specialy made fret file with the shape of the top of the fret but that didn`t work very well.[/quote']

 

Yeah, I did consider buying a single cut smooth file and amgle grinding the edges smooth, but that diamond comcave file (much more expensive) looked really well made and so i took the plunge.

 

I'm glad i did, it's a very well designed tool. That and the flat diamond file ate the only reason I managed to do the job so well I reckon. Experience (and a lot of diy overnthe years) has taught that having the right tool for the job is half the job done.

 

You can do it with something else - it's just going to be harder, take longer, and the chances of a (difficult to fix) mistake to happen a lot higher.

 

Whilst I don't expect to recrown a lot of guitars, I know it will.happen ahain, so at least it's there. In any case, those 2 tools have paid for themselves (And over!!!!) with the 2 level jobs ive done here. Consoder the work I've put in, I can see that anybody charging £60 To £80 for a levelling is very reasonable (about the going rate) and I've paid just under £60 for the tools and various grades of sand paper. Well worth it.

[Les Paul Lover]

Thanks.

 

Glad I managed it myself too. It's been very enjoyable too, which is all the better. Reasonnably easy too, though time consuming.

[catscurlyear]

yeah ,looks like a nice job you`ve done ,i wouldn`t mind trying the diamond file ,even though the file i used was very basic it didn`t take that long to get the frets smooth and rounded enough. I still don`t quite understand the orange marker lol but that could be another thread ha ha

[Les Paul Lover]

@catscurlyear

 

I saw the Orange marker better than the black marker. (I wish I had a red one at hand back then though).

 

The black marker just looked sort of grey and didn't stand out very well on grey metal frets.

 

Yeah, those diamond files are great. I really enjoyed working with them.

To be honest recrowing doesn't take all that long..... when you don't take off too much material.

 

On my Aria Pro II RS X80, I took a lot away to eliminate deep fret grooves and compensate for the back bow from the 4th fret, and there, recrowning took a long time.

[catscurlyear]

sounds like you`ve got a grey marker ? , mine definatly looks thick black ,dead easy to see, .i don`t know how i would manage to stone it, if it had a bad back bow, maybe tie something round it to pull it into shape

[Les Paul Lover]

Perhaps I simply need to buy a new back marker pen next time I do such a job.

 

The back bow is manageable with the fret level now. Since it only start at the 4th fret, whilst it has an impact, the fret level deals with that appropriately.

 

The difficulty with trying to bend it back, is that it's a 5 piece neck through neck - maple / walnut/ maple / walnut / maple with an ebony fret board.

 

I don't have the equipment required to warm up the neck and try to bend it correctly, and with some many bits of wood, the scope for twisting sideways is high if not done correctly.

 

But with the frets levelled, it isn't really an issue now.

[Freeman Keller]

LPL, if you have to "take a lot away..." then its time for a refret. That also gives you a chance to level the board itself so you are back in the working range of your truss rod. Just the next step in your education and a chance to buy a few more cool tools.

 

And, while I hear of people bending necks back into shape with various medieval torture instruments I've never tried it (and I really worry about how you control it). It seems like if the neck is stable at some configuration then its pretty easy to plane it flat and not have a bunch of stress built into it. So, if it were up to me, I'd take some careful measurements, pull the frets, set the t/r to neutral, sand it flat (gives you a chance to deal with the body hump if you have one), then refret it.

[Freeman Keller]

 

Unfortunately, radiused beams are pretty expensive and out of bounds for most enthusiasts - a aluminium beam will set you back around £70.

 

Here I had 2 guitars, 12" and 9.5" radius...... that gets expensive pretty fast!!!

 

However, if you're a professional or serious DIY hobbyist, they would be a great investment.

 

 

A flat diamond file like mine has to be used carefully, you have to make you go up and down a couple of time, move it slightly, and repeat.....

You could overfile an area and alter the radius if you spend too long on one specific spot, but if you're serious and keep giving it only a couple of pass in each spot and then move along the radius, it's very effective and does a great job.

 

As usual, I didn't bother to read WRG's thesis, but I don't happen to have radiused beams. I was given a 24 inch flat beam that I use quite a bit and I have 8 inch radius sanding blocks in the three sizes that I use most often (12, 16 and 20 inch, most electric player can get by with 9 and 12) - they are 20 bucks each from StewMac, cheaper elsewhere.

 

Here is a look at what I usually use for leveling or refrets - at the bottom is my 24 inch beam, then two 8 inch radiused blocks which mostly get used on the board (not the frets). The one above that with the red paper on it is an 8 inch flat aluminum block - I use that a lot, then a 6 inch and two 3 inch aluminum blocks. All of those have various grits of sand paper - I buy the stuff with sticky back already on it but you can certainly use double sticky tape. A couple of crowing files, a 6 inch bastard and a little jewelers file, just basic stuff. The shiny thing bottom left is an old draftsman's eraser shield (back when we used to draw stuff with pencils) - most of the time I can use it rather than mask off the f/b. Steel wool for cleaning the board (and micro mesh for polishing the frets, not shown) - I've dressed, fretted and refretted a lot of guitars with that little quiver of tools

 

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Here is another handy trick - one of my little 3 inch blocks has a piece of 320 grit paper in the middle and two pieces of the same paper on both ends, only stuck on upside down. That way I can span three frets but only sand on the middle one - lets me level it relative to the outside. You can also see some pretty serious divots in the fretboard - if I was doing a complete refret I could level those but for right now there isn't much that can be done

 

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[Freeman Keller]

If anyone is interested in a refret (or in this case a partial refret), here is a thread I posted a while back. Its an acoustic and I'm only doing the first few frets (cowboy chords, you know). My first experience with SS wire - I was happy with it and have done other SS refrets. This board is bound with rosewood so I have that to deal with - its a little easier than plastic binding but still adds a bit of work.

 

http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/...s-steel-refret

[Preacher]

If anyone is interested in a refret (or in this case a partial refret), here is a thread I posted a while back. Its an acoustic and I'm only doing the first few frets (cowboy chords, you know). My first experience with SS wire - I was happy with it and have done other SS refrets. This board is bound with rosewood so I have that to deal with - its a little easier than plastic binding but still adds a bit of work.

 

http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/...s-steel-refret

 

 

Great thread there, Freeman, and all of your posts in this thread have been extremely helpful, per usual. Thanks!

[Stratmaster]

Wow that acoustic is in some bad shape.. well loved but bad shape..

 

[Les Paul Lover]

I was hesitating about a refret. I was about the order the fret wire, when measuring the grooves was showing a level should be enough.

 

At that stage, I didn't know the neck was back bowing a little form the 4th fret up to the nut.

 

Once I knew, since 8t was my 1st try at a fret level I went ahead with it anyway, knowing that if it didn't turn out right, a refret was the next step.

 

In the event, whilst the fret profile is low in places, it plays fantastically now, so I'm very happy with my decision.

 

I can see a refret in its future though. Sanding the fret board....... I suppose that would a good option, though I'd be wary of filing through the cat's eyes inlays and having to replace them.

 

Certainly, regretting it with the highest fret wire I can get and fret levelling after that would be another good option.

[Grant Harding]

You mean the "cut your damned fingernails" one with the fingerboard divots? That's so common!

[WRGKMC]

Unlike W above' date=' I LOVE the Dremel withy a bit of Compound 7. What would take 3 or 4 hours by hand, can be done in 10 minutes.[/quote']

 

 

Haven't tried using a Dremel with an abrasive compound. What kind of tip are you applying the compound to, some kind of felt tip or buffing pad?

 

When I was talking about using a Dremel, I was referring to using these abrasive rubber wheels being hard to use.

 

 

I use super jumbo frets on most of my instruments and a single wheel isn't much wider. Drawing the wheel across the fret requires exact precision. If you stall it grooves the fret. If you don't keep the wheel perfectly parallel, it jumps off the fret.

 

I did come up with an idea I need to try. If I can find a longer screw for the Dremel an put two on. Maybe tack the two together with a drop of glue toward the center, then make a groove where the two meet they would be easier to use.

[WRGKMC]

Have you tried them? If not you should read this before you jump to concusions and make statements like that. http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online_Resources/Learn_About_Instrument_Finishing_and_Finish_Repair/Using_fret_polishing_wheels_on_a_flex_shaft.html

 

They are made of a hard rubber material with an abrasive embedded. Maybe divot is the wrong word I was searching for. Lets say it can create a wavy surface if you aren't extremely careful. The article makes it look fairly easy to use which is why I bought them (and a new Dremel cause my old one was pretty beat) When you actually try it yourself its a whole different ball game. Its like doing friggin surgery. One wrong move and you can burn a low spot.

 

You have to run the Dremel at a high enough speed to prevent rotational stall when adding pressure.

You have to add enough pressure to prevent chatter.

Then you have to draw the wheel across the frets in a single perfect pass parallel and centered on the fret without stalling.

 

If you any any kind of arch to your hand movement drawing it across it will zip right off the fret and create a slight groove in the crown.

 

I like the idea of using a wheel but using some kind of bench grinder wheel while holding the neck to draw the fret across the wheel might be a better solution. Those flexible Dremel arms are not that flexible and using it on a mounted neck is even more difficult then an unmounted neck.

 

Like I said, these can work but I get better and faster results using other techniques.

[WRGKMC]

You can buy long hard wood radiused blocks on ebay for around $20. Shorter ones are less than $10.

This ones a 13" for $7.67 with free shipping. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fret-Leveling-Fingerboard-Radius-Sanding-Blocks-13x6-5x4cm-for-Luthiers-Tool-/162599550380?hash=item25dbb03dac:g:Z5AAAOSwqeZZcfC3

 

I use a 18 " made from a very hard mahogany type wood which is long enough to do the job without removing the nut (which is what you'd need to do with anything longer). If you use a hard wood its just as good as aluminum for stiffness. Once the 3M paper is applied adds a slight cushion to the surface. Its not going to matter what its made of so long as its dead flat.

 

What's tough to find at low cost is self sticking paper. Stuart sells it for $2 a yard which is pretty steep. I found the same stuff for less than $1 a yard so I bought a decent sized roll. I still need to find some with a finer grit. I'd rather take longer doing the job and have less material removed so it doesn't leave as much scratches.

[WRGKMC]

I been doing fret work for 50 years. I clearly stated these were used for polishing the frets, not crowning.

http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Tools_by_Job/Tools_for_Fretting/Fret_Polishing_Wheels.html

 

You obviously haven't tried them and have no idea how difficult they are to use. Heres an article on their use. Read and learn. http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online_Resources/Learn_About_Instrument_Finishing_and_Finish_Repair/Using_fret_polishing_wheels_on_a_flex_shaft.html

[Grant Harding]

I just use a little cloth buffing wheel attachment and rub some fine compound on it.

 

The shaping and working through the grits is still done, but the extra polishing with the Dremel makes them gleam and feel great.

[WRGKMC]

I think I have a few of those. One's cone shaped felt which might work. I suspect it will get loaded up quickly. I normally use using the buffing compound between string changes on guitars I don't play very often to get rid of the tarnish, but I'm open to giving it a shot with a Dremel.

[WRGKMC]

Here's that procedure using the polishing wheels http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online...lex_shaft.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

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These abrasive erasers do an excellent job extremely fast. They cost about $7 and will last for at least a hundred polishing jobs or more.

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