Members jdog1 Posted July 21, 2011 Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 Quick question without too many details at this moment. A friend just purchased two 18 inch powered subs (not going to mention the brand as this post will quickly turn into buy something better). They each have a volume control on the back and Low Pass Filter that runs from about 50 to 900 I think. The company claims they are 1400 Watts RMS. Are they? Who knows. Anyway, they work great when you're pumping dance music through them or some bass heavy music. Nice thump. Good air movement. But a triggered kick is causing the red clip light to light up with each kick. Same thing when running music through the system. Only the hit of the kick cause momentary clip. Channel eq is all unity. Turning down the volume on the speaker or the LPF to get rid of the clip cause losses of nearly half the power leaving them weak sounding. After all this the question is this: Is that type of clipping acceptable as long as there isn't any distortion? Is it going to damage speakers, ect.? We're kind of rookies with this so be nice. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted July 21, 2011 Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 not good. specifically state exact speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted July 21, 2011 Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 What about turning down the trigger signal itself. Cut the bass back a bit on the kick or music. You pointed out, an you may be right, that he just might need a bigger sub. The knob on the sub, isn't a volume knob... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drumstix Posted July 21, 2011 Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 You need to set the channel strip gain properly. PFL the channel on your mixer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jdog1 Posted July 21, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 It's not a volume knob? What is it then? Also, i don't have speaker details at the moment. I can come back with that later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeromus-X Posted July 21, 2011 Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 Are you plugging the kick trigger module directly into the subwoofer, or are you using a mixer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted July 21, 2011 Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 It's not a volume knob? What is it then? Also, i don't have speaker details at the moment. I can come back with that later. its part of the gain structure. on a powered speaker it likely does have both attenuation and gain so it is kind of like a volume knob but it is not used in that manner. it is instead used to match gain between components. your mixer is the "volume knob" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted July 21, 2011 Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 Hey, if they were cheap and you need to be bangin' the clip limiter light to get the SPL you need why not? They'll either be fine or blow up. If they are a typical DJ brand that 1400 watts is peak and the rms is ~ 350 watts so probably OK to flash the lights a bit . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted July 21, 2011 Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 As other mentioned you left out some details.What are you using for your trigger module Roland,Yamaha, Ddrum, Alesis, OSP, software base Ezdrummer, Addictive drummer, BFD ? Do you have external gear in between you mixer and subs like a EQ or crossover ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jdog1 Posted July 21, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 Are you plugging the kick trigger module directly into the subwoofer, or are you using a mixer? mixer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted July 21, 2011 Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 First you need to determine if the flashing LED indicates "clipping" or "limiting" ... regardless of how it's labeled. If it indicates limiting (which I think most do) then flashing with each hit is probably alright. If it indicates clipping this should not be allowed to happen more than very infrequently. In either case the peak signal from your kick is exceeding the capabilities of your system. If I were you I'd add a limiter to your kick channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Consume Posted July 21, 2011 Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 How about turning the gain down on the kick channel of the mixer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crownman Posted July 21, 2011 Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 You could also be slamming the amp input with frequencies it's never going to put out. I've had that happen with a triggered kick before. For the hell of it I cut 12db on the FOH eq on everything below 60. The light disappeared. Just another thing to try out. Also, you said Anyway, they work great when you're pumping dance music through them or some bass heavy music. Nice thump. Good air movement. But a triggered kick is causing the red clip light to light up with each kick. Same thing when running music through the system. So is it doing the same thing running music through the system or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Musicman717 Posted July 21, 2011 Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 I agree with stratguy and Dboomer and Consume. The more bass, Gain And no limiter can all be a factor, maybe not all 3 at the same time. but i had the same trouble and these guys helped me with it and i got to noticeing that mine doesnt clip the amps anymore. my speakers are not powered they are passive but it's still the same thing with either one. don't try to over drive your speakers to get that big boom from bass that a lot of people have in the big concert settings. just use it at the range of it's capabilities. if you need that big boom or want it , you'll have to get more speakers , on my set up i have 2 18's on both sides , and i can really tell the difference and i am not running it hard too. and DO use a limiter if there is one on your amp. it will save your speakers in the long run. I started using one on my FOH rack and man it's great. the subs havent clipped the amp since. Hope this helps you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stangconv Posted July 21, 2011 Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/B1800D-PRO.aspx I believe its 1400 watts peak.... No way that's 1400 rms. Lots of good info to try out in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 Honestly ... the peak power rating is more relative to how an amp will sound when music is the source. The unanswered question is how long do I have to wait before I can get another peak out of the amp? There seems to be no real standard (well at least one that is meaningful when applied to music reproduction). In quickly reading the OM I can't tell if the LED signifies clip or limit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 can you cheat a bit? Be very conservative with everything below 50hz and try and get your kick feel and punch in the 50-150 range? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Chinese Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 I wouldn't be surprised if there was DC Offset somewhere in here... Think about it: the trigger is triggering a Sampled Drumsound. Now, Unless thats a Raw Kick sound, it most likely already has a bit of compression, Limiting etc... juts a different thought... T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jdog1 Posted July 22, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 Wow. There is a lot of great info here! Went over to my buddy's place last night with this info in hand and we started with the EQ and Trim and worked our way from there. Also set a limiter and boosted for punch around 150 to 200. Cut here and there and managed to get rid of the clipping and get some decent punch out of the speaker. So far so good. We will keep putzing. Thanks so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jdog1 Posted July 22, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 So is it doing the same thing running music through the system or not?yes, it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jdog1 Posted July 22, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 Honestly ... the peak power rating is more relative to how an amp will sound when music is the source. The unanswered question is how long do I have to wait before I can get another peak out of the amp? There seems to be no real standard (well at least one that is meaningful when applied to music reproduction).In quickly reading the OM I can't tell if the LED signifies clip or limit? That's the same question I have and I'm in the process of trying to get an answer to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 Are you using a crossover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted July 26, 2011 Members Share Posted July 26, 2011 Honestly ... the peak power rating is more relative to how an amp will sound when music is the source. The unanswered question is how long do I have to wait before I can get another peak out of the amp? There seems to be no real standard (well at least one that is meaningful when applied to music reproduction).In quickly reading the OM I can't tell if the LED signifies clip or limit? The peak power rating is generally just a math conversion for marketing purposes and has nothing to do with how an amp sounds with music or anything else unrelated to marketing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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