Members EmgEsp Posted February 26, 2017 Members Share Posted February 26, 2017 Note that the Gibson comes with a hard shell case (couldn't find case info on the Kiesel site, but it looks like it's another $200?), the Plek setup, and the cryogenic frets. The frets in particular are interesting, most people will never need to get a fret job. Also the Plek process does a great job on optimizing the setup. The case adds a couple hundred dollars to the price, as does the amortization on the Plek machines until they're paid off. You can get a non-Pleked guitar done, but it will cost you anywhere from $200-$300 so that and the case alone accounts for a significant part of the Studio's price. Kiesel comes with a case standard as well. They also do fret crowning/leveling by hand at no extra price. Jeff says each guitar takes about 45 minutes to just over an hour for fret work. All plek process does is allows you to get level frets when your fingerboard isn't perfectly flat throughout the length. Jeff Kiesel commented on why companies choose the plek process and its really because its faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted February 27, 2017 Members Share Posted February 27, 2017 Good to know about the case, that's not obvious from the web site. If you have connections at Kiesel you might want to let them know it's not clear (at least from what I read) that cases are included. As to Plek, that's exactly what it's all about - doing what an expert luthier does in much less time. Sweetwater has a very good description of what the Plek process is. I would add that several luthiers I've talked to say that the Plek process has a degree of accuracy in terms of tolerances that is difficult, if not impossible, for humans to attain. Whether or not the difference is something you'd notice...I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Another issue is the extent to which Gibson guitars are counterfeited. There are people at Gibson whose gig is to keep counterfeiters from getting the guitars to market, and a legal team that's constantly dealing with the repercussions. It's not just a question of "gee, we'd rather they buy our stuff" but the calls to support about "Your guitars suck!! I've only had my Les Paul for a month and the neck is unplayable!!" where it turns out the buyer bought a counterfeit. (One of my favorite memes while walking past a support person: "Yes, sir, it is indeed a serial number. However it's not a Gibson serial number.") Unfortunately, legitimate customers have to cover the cost of dealing with crooks (just like if you buy something at a big box store, you're paying for the losses caused by shoplifters). And there's another aspect to the counterfeit issue - a company pretty much has to vigorously defend their trademarks and copyrights or they risk losing them. They don't have a choice in the matter. https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverherzfeld/2013/02/28/failure-to-enforce-trademarks-if-you-snooze-do-you-lose/#2c6349c46c22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bookumdano4 Posted February 28, 2017 Members Share Posted February 28, 2017 The Keisel stuff has interesting colors, designs etc. I was just looking through their site. But there's nothing there I'm personally attracted to or would ever actually buy. That's for sure a reflection of me coming from the days of only 3 tv networks and only 3 guitar makers. I don't really have a major gripe about Les Paul Customs costing $3500 or more new now. If I woke up one morning and decided to buy a new one to add to my existing old guitars, I could certainly do it. As long as the market can bear the price Gibson sets, everyone gets what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mark L Posted March 4, 2017 Members Share Posted March 4, 2017 I think I've fallen in love with this guitar: http://www.dawsons.co.uk/gibson-2017-les-paul-faded-hp-electric-guitar?prod=110710&gclid=CN3_qZPKvdICFQaVGwodj1gBCg But what does 'sumptuous PAF-inspired tones' mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted March 4, 2017 Members Share Posted March 4, 2017 That's a GREAT choice!! I love the Faded. As I wrote in an article about it, if I could pick one guitar out of the 2017 Traditional lineup, it would be that one. I do prefer the red one, though... But what does 'sumptuous PAF-inspired tones' mean? It's marketing-speak for "you'll like how it sounds." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mark L Posted March 5, 2017 Members Share Posted March 5, 2017 That's a GREAT choice!! I love the Faded. As I wrote in an article about it, if I could pick one guitar out of the 2017 Traditional lineup, it would be that one. I do prefer the red one, though... You can have the red one, I'll take the brown. I already have a faded cherry LP. I like all the silver on this 2017 model. Looks good against the brown wood. I don't like shiny-bodied guitars and I don't like pick-guards, so this would be perfect for me. Not ridiculously expensive, either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AlamoJoe Posted March 5, 2017 Members Share Posted March 5, 2017 The silver pickup rings....Never saw those before I don't think. All the silver appointments, the knobs and switches, set against the wood gives it a really unique look. Sharp Dressed Guitar. I like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted March 5, 2017 Members Share Posted March 5, 2017 Yes, the HP line of guitars all have that chromey look (as opposed to the traditional line). I must say that in person, it looks better than the photo from Dawson's. On stage, if you point the guitar properly to reflect the stage lights, you can cause temporary blindness. The HP version also has the fast access scarf, as well as the titanium bridge and such and the G Force automatic tuning. I know a lot of people hate the concept, but I find it more conducive to songwriting when the guitar is in tune in a few seconds. I can't tune all six strings at once, it can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AlamoJoe Posted March 6, 2017 Members Share Posted March 6, 2017 Yes, the HP line of guitars all have that chromey look (as opposed to the traditional line). I must say that in person, it looks better than the photo from Dawson's. On stage, if you point the guitar properly to reflect the stage lights, you can cause temporary blindness. The HP version also has the fast access scarf, as well as the titanium bridge and such and the G Force automatic tuning. I know a lot of people hate the concept, but I find it more conducive to songwriting when the guitar is in tune in a few seconds. I can't tune all six strings at once, it can. Well it gives that Gibby a edgier look with out taking away from the classic shape. I frankly do not hate the concept of the autotune innovation. Tuning is a necessary must on a guitar, but not a task i take any kind of thrill from. I simply cannot afford a thusly equipped Gibby. I recently bought an Epiphone, the first new guitar purchase in 20 years. I love the thing with the exception of the tuners...And they are not very special at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted March 6, 2017 Members Share Posted March 6, 2017 I love the thing with the exception of the tuners...And they are not very special at all. Can you replace the tuners with something better, assuming the $$ to do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mark L Posted March 6, 2017 Members Share Posted March 6, 2017 I'm not a traditionalist as far as guitars are concerned, so the G-Force tuning system on the LP is a welcome addition. In fact, it's a very welcome addition since I suffer from some kind of dyslexia when it comes to tuning guitars manually. I'll tune each string to my satisfaction, then when I play a chord it sounds discordant. So bravo Gibson for this helpful gadget If I buy the guitar I'm afraid my wife and dog will have to go without food for a while. But hey, we all have to make sacrifices... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AlamoJoe Posted March 7, 2017 Members Share Posted March 7, 2017 Can you replace the tuners with something better, assuming the $$ to do so? Well it's still under warranty so I'm hesitant to do anything to it yet in case there's some kind of electrical malfunction that would be covered under the warranty. Once it expires, I'll definitely jump on a better set of tuners. I like the guitars tone and the neck is very satisfactory. My first hollowbody so I'm still kind of finding things different to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AlamoJoe Posted March 7, 2017 Members Share Posted March 7, 2017 I'm not a traditionalist as far as guitars are concerned, so the G-Force tuning system on the LP is a welcome addition. In fact, it's a very welcome addition since I suffer from some kind of dyslexia when it comes to tuning guitars manually. I'll tune each string to my satisfaction, then when I play a chord it sounds discordant. So bravo Gibson for this helpful gadget If I buy the guitar I'm afraid my wife and dog will have to go without food for a while. But hey, we all have to make sacrifices... Keep the wife, eat the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted March 7, 2017 Members Share Posted March 7, 2017 Keep the wife, eat the dog. From time to time, SSS offers true wisdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Well it's still under warranty so I'm hesitant to do anything to it yet in case there's some kind of electrical malfunction that would be covered under the warranty. Once it expires, I'll definitely jump on a better set of tuners. I like the guitars tone and the neck is very satisfactory. My first hollowbody so I'm still kind of finding things different to do with it. I can't speak officially for Epiphone, but I can't imagine any guitar company would void the warranty on a guitar's electronics just because you replaced the tuning machines on it. And besides, don't most Epiphones come with a lifetime warranty? If so, you probably don't want to wait around until it "expires!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AlamoJoe Posted March 8, 2017 Members Share Posted March 8, 2017 I can't speak officially for Epiphone, but I can't imagine any guitar company would void the warranty on a guitar's electronics just because you replaced the tuning machines on it. And besides, don't most Epiphones come with a lifetime warranty? If so, you probably don't want to wait around until it "expires!" Hadn't considered that actually....perhaps I'll go shopping for some new tuners.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mark L Posted March 11, 2017 Members Share Posted March 11, 2017 Keep the wife, eat the dog. Ended up eating 'em both. Guitars are very important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AlamoJoe Posted March 11, 2017 Members Share Posted March 11, 2017 Ended up eating 'em both. Guitars are very important The experience should inspire a new tune or two. I loved her so much She was really hard to kill I drank a brandy in her honor As I roasted her tenderloins on the grill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bookumdano4 Posted March 12, 2017 Members Share Posted March 12, 2017 Based on this thread, I just popped into a GC and tried out a Faded. I dunno, the neck feels strange to me. Too fat or something. And for my taste, I'd probably stick with an SG instead of a Faded. But... that's what makes the guitar world go round. You know what was slightly disturbing to me as I stood in the store...... that GREEN LP Classic I keep seeing pics of here looks REALLY cool on the store wall. I've never owned a green guitar before. I think I had a turqoise Silvertone at some point in 1964, but hey.... I'm getting concerned that I like this green thing so much. That's a bad obsession indicator on my part. Is anything other than the Classic offered in that green color? As an aside, "green ocean burst" doesn't work for me. Face it, this thing is a "green popsicle". A very tasty looking one at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted March 13, 2017 Members Share Posted March 13, 2017 <...> And besides, don't most Epiphones come with a lifetime warranty? If so, you probably don't want to wait around until it "expires!" I would suspect Gibson/Epiphone would stand by their lifetime warranty. However, there is never a guarantee on their warranty. Years ago I bought an Ultimate Support A Frame keyboard stand. They offered a "Lifetime Warranty". I had a couple of parts wear out, and they always replaced them free of charge. I even lost one of the rubber 'feet' once, called then up expecting to buy one, after all it didn't fail, but they replaced it at no charge. And a particular plastic part does fail, it's a ring that holds the keyboard support to the aluminum tube. For years they replaced them. Then one day another one cracked, I called the company, and they said that they don't make that part anymore. I told them that you sold this product with a "Lifetime Warranty" and I'm still alive and asked them again to replace the part. They replied telling me that I can't expect them to continue manufacturing a part for a product that has been discontinued. I told them that I did expect them to honor their warranty or they shouldn't have offered it in the first place They refused to do so. Now if they had offered me a 5 or 10 year warranty, I could understand that. Any parts that failed after the warranty period are gone - the company bears no responsibility. But a lifetime warranty means just that. Don't say it if you don't mean it. Ultimate Support went from a company that I held in the highest esteem to one I hold in low esteem. I've never bought another Ultimate Support stand since. Except for used ones on ebay so I can cannibalize the parts when those plastic support rings break (I lost one last weekend). If they had done something else to compensate me, it might have been different. But they were very indifferent, short, and cold to my request. I felt they didn't care about me. And that put me off. When a company has a problem it's an opportunity. Either an opportunity to make a customer for life, or to lose a customer, depending on how the problem is handled. Many companies don't realize that. But they should Perhaps you should call Epiphone and ask directly if what you want to do voids the warranty. Insights and incites by Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AlamoJoe Posted March 13, 2017 Members Share Posted March 13, 2017 Methinks you may be right Notes...I'll shoot 'em an email before I jump on some new tuners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bookumdano4 Posted March 14, 2017 Members Share Posted March 14, 2017 Hadn't considered that actually....perhaps I'll go shopping for some new tuners.... With all due respect to Phil, I just read the detailed Gibson/Epi warranty and as an often-attorney (which means nothing of course) I'll suggest that if you change ONE IOTA of that guitar with something that didn't COME WITH that guitar when you bought it, your warranty is effectively void. On paper. Just my two cents opinion. If you put better tuners on the guitar and then five years from now, your body cracks from some defect or other.... and you ship your guitar in for repair and the factory opens it up and sees the non-original tuners they can sure say....... whoops.... no service because you didn't follow point 1 of the warranty which is.....NO MODS.... none... zero....zilch. You do mods, no warranty on nuthin. It makes NO difference that your issue with an exploding guitar or whatever has nothing to do with the tuners you put on. Even though totally unrelated to the issue, your mod of that guitar.... even potentially with just something benign as different volume knob caps..... screws your warranty. Again... on paper. Which is the legal document. That's what the warranty sentence point 1 or whatever boils down to. As I read it... and as certainly I'd see MY out in having to do a repair. But hey, people is people. The factory may well fix/replace the guitar due to the unexpected cave-in of the body in that future year. Or....not. Totally their decision, but the mod is KEY for a "no" answer. If they decide that instead. Just sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AlamoJoe Posted March 15, 2017 Members Share Posted March 15, 2017 Sound advice. The tuners aren't terrible really...But I'm a chronic string bender. Perhaps I should just leave things as they are...And just put up with having to retune frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted March 16, 2017 Members Share Posted March 16, 2017 Fewer string winds on the tuning machines, pencil lead in the nut slots, and one of those clip on tuners sounds like a good thing. And if you ask Gibson/Epiphone about changing the tuners, get it in writing. But IMO they would be crazy to default you on that mod from my point of view if the mod had nothing to do with the problem. As I said in my last post, a problem can make or lose a customer for life. Example: My Parker developed a small crack in the body almost a year after the warranty had expired. I wrote to them, they said send it back and they would fix it. More than a year after the first repair, it cracked again. I wrote to them asking advice on how to fix it. Even though the warranty had expired by a couple of years, they said the wood shouldn't have cracked again, it must have been a bad piece of wood, so they replaced the guitar with a brand new one. They even paid shipping both ways. Unexpected and delightful response to my problem. When I wanted another guitar, I bought another Parker from the custom shop - my specs. Same body, same color but instead of Strat style SSH pickups, I had them build it with two Duncan P-Rails with triple shot rings. I also posted their great customer service on a few guitar forums. It's been another few years, no more problems, and the custom job is my gigging guitar. And when it comes time to get a new guitar, where do you think I'll look first? You guessed it. Insights and incites by Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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