Members Reson8tor Posted August 29, 2012 Members Share Posted August 29, 2012 The Italian/RCF Mackie SRM450's were great. I had a pair for years, then sold them to a friend a couple years ago and he's still using them for weekly gigs. They've held up fine, and sound better than the current versions. I've still got a little 1202 mixer from the old made-in-Seattle days. The pots are a little scratchy, but everything still works and it's good for the odd utility job around the studio. My $.02 about the current version of Mackie... it's not a "made in China" problem because many companies are making products there now, with good quality control. My QSC speakers and my Soundcraft and A&H mixers are all made in China. With Mackie, it's more the chaotic history of the company, and quality control after moving production offshore. Remember the trouble they had with a closed factory in China a year or two ago? Their product design now seems to be moving away from going directly up against the more established speaker lineups of QSC, RCF, JBL, etc., or the quality level of Allen & Heath and Souncraft mixers. The current marketing seems aimed more at people who know nothing about audio gear; people just starting out in bands or as DJ's. Sort of the Bose approach, except with a marketing tilt towards a younger, hipster audience. I suppose it's a way to avoid being swamped by the Behringer tide. It will be interesting to see how that works out. As someone with fond memories of the early Mackie days, I want to root for them. But right now I wouldn't buy one of their products until it has some time in the field, and a whole bunch of positive user feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted August 29, 2012 Members Share Posted August 29, 2012 I don't own any Mackie products and don't plan on buying any, BUT, I really enjoyed the video that Absurd posted. Thanks. I thought it was funny and the fact that we are talking about it shows that it is effective! I think it would be nice if we waited until a product was actually in use before we criticize its performance. The DLM series looks promising and the prices quoted are list prices - I'm sure the street prices will be much lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted August 29, 2012 Members Share Posted August 29, 2012 The video I posted in post #5 is quite insulting to sound professionals IMO . Someone should tell them the sixties are over LOL. I suspect "somebody" went to at least some work and expense to produce that video, and if so, then I suspect they had a compelling reason to do so, and as-is with most propaganda, there's generally a target market... and the propaganda is oftentimes simply reinforcement, confirmation, and/or enhancement of a predisposed belief among some portion of the target market. If that's the case... that's depressing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted August 29, 2012 Members Share Posted August 29, 2012 I wasn't criticizing the product, just the marketing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted August 29, 2012 Members Share Posted August 29, 2012 I wasn't criticizing the product, just the marketing. Ironically, you just assisted in their marketing by posting that video ! Anyway, I enjoyed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tedmich Posted August 29, 2012 Members Share Posted August 29, 2012 -10db specs LOL real spec sheets "coming soon" marketing before specs set is bad practice IME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted August 29, 2012 Members Share Posted August 29, 2012 Ironically, you just assisted in their marketing by posting that video;)! Anyway, I enjoyed it. Yes, I am well aware .... kind of "there's no such thing as bad publicity". I posted it because it was there and topical to the discussion. I have no personal stake in it so I don't care if it helps or hurts the cause. It's funny (I guess) but also pretty much screams consumer grade gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted August 29, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 29, 2012 Yah, I sure want to buy products controlled by the Russian Mob . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flogger59 Posted August 29, 2012 Members Share Posted August 29, 2012 -10db specs LOLreal spec sheets "coming soon"marketing before specs set is bad practice IME It's the Mackie way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 29, 2012 Members Share Posted August 29, 2012 I suspect "somebody" went to at least some work and expense to produce that video, and if so, then I suspect they had a compelling reason to do so, and as-is with most propaganda, there's generally a target market... and the propaganda is oftentimes simply reinforcement, confirmation, and/or enhancement of a predisposed belief among some portion of the target market. If that's the case... that's depressing to me. Absolutely, couldn't agree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dookietwo Posted August 29, 2012 Members Share Posted August 29, 2012 I suspect "somebody" went to at least some work and expense to produce that video, and if so, then I suspect they had a compelling reason to do so, and as-is with most propaganda, there's generally a target market... and the propaganda is oftentimes simply reinforcement, confirmation, and/or enhancement of a predisposed belief among some portion of the target market. If that's the case... that's depressing to me. Or another way to look at it. Look at all the free press they are getting putting out such drool. Everyone is talking about and watching....... those silly videos. Which is what they want. Its kind of like having a For Sale sign turned sideways. Its amazing how many people will stop and turn their heads sideways to read it yet will walk right by a normal "straight hung" sign. Its all marketing. Dookietwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miko Man Posted August 29, 2012 Members Share Posted August 29, 2012 How long until Mackie adds the fine print to the ads that say "Professional acrobat pictured. Do not stand on this product."? Maybe the lawyers are busy defending IP infringement cases for related corporate siblings .... Mark C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 Or another way to look at it. Look at all the free press they are getting putting out such drool.Everyone is talking about and watching....... those silly videos. Which is what they want. Its kind of like having a For Sale sign turned sideways. Its amazing how many people will stop and turn their heads sideways to read it yet will walk right by a normal "straight hung" sign. Its all marketing. Dookietwo I think you're expressing a naive perception of the underlying message (and current evolution of a history of very intentional, well thought-out marketing strategy... by likely some of the best and brightest minds in the business... and motivated by retaining attractive margins for the company who writes their paychecks). BTW: At our last band practice, our guitarist informed the band (and resident soundperson) that at our last performance, we (the band) was too loud, based on the guitarist's rendition of his perceptions of reading of the crowd. Never mind the fact that our guitarist is by-far the loudest ingredient of the band... neither myself or any of the other band members saw fit to rise to the occasion to point that FACT out when the guitarist pitched his bitch at practice. So at the post practice performance (last Friday night), we (the rest of the band) pulled it back more than usual... the guitarist filled up the newly emerged "empty space" with... well... LOUDER guitar. humm... I'd suspect that some "soundperson" stepping up and setting the guitarist straight on what's being heard by the audience would have gone over like a turd in a punchbowl (which is why I said absolutely nothing at the last practice... because pointing out that the king is wearing no clothes misses the point entirely, except for the fact that the audience shares the idiot kid's perceptions... bla, blah, bla, bla, blawwww... all that blaw might be a reason why the top is fairly rarified air). And I'd suspect the guitarist would absolutely relish a chance to pull-up an apt on his smartphone and dial the mix to his idea of perfection (based on his perspective)... and circumvent the resident "know it all" soundperson once and for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 I was at the product launch for the DLM series, took a video of the presentation, and edited it down to about 20-25 minutes. Anyway, regardless of how the company spins the thing, they did play a bunch of material through the system (there are three examples toward the end of the video - Brandi Carlisle doing her rock thing, AC/DC for the "yes, it can be loud" demo, and some dubstep for the "kick in the subwoofer" part of the show). Assuming they can produce the things and maintain quality, there were three main aspects that impressed me. 1. They're not big or particularly heavy. The sub is 50 pounds, but that's still not bad.2. The 2K watts is nice. I'd bet they weren't pushing through more than 100W or so at the club where they had the setup, but there's plenty of headroom, very clean.3. The overall response is balanced. I didn't hear any midrange bumps, holes during bass instrument slides, or strident highs. I was able to hear them A-Bed against several speakers in the same general price/size range, and it was pretty impressive not so much in terms of level, but in terms of frequency response. Mackie got a new CEO not that long ago, and my subjective take on the DLM series is that it's their comeback bid. The series is supposed to be out in October (and of course, being a wiseass I had to ask "is that October 2012?"), so I should be able to get my hands on some and really try to push them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 I was at the product launch for the DLM series, Anyway, regardless of how the company spins the thing, they did play a bunch of material through the system (there are three examples toward the end of the video - Brandi Carlisle doing her rock thing, AC/DC for the "yes, it can be loud" demo, and some dubstep for the "kick in the subwoofer" part of the show). Assuming they can produce the things and maintain quality, there were three main aspects that impressed me.1. They're not big or particularly heavy. The sub is 50 pounds, but that's still not bad.2. The 2K watts is nice. I'd bet they weren't pushing through more than 100W or so at the club where they had the setup, but there's plenty of headroom, very clean.3. The overall response is balanced. I didn't hear any midrange bumps, holes during bass instrument slides, or strident highs.I was able to hear them A-Bed against several speakers in the same general price/size range, and it was pretty impressive not so much in terms of level, but in terms of frequency response.Mackie got a new CEO not that long ago, and my subjective take on the DLM series is that it's their comeback bid. The series is supposed to be out in October (and of course, being a wiseass I had to ask "is that October 2012?"), so I should be able to get my hands on some and really try to push them. No doubt there is room for improvement... at least from a theoretical physics person's perspective... because: I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 No doubt there is room for improvement... at least from a theoretical physics person's perspective... because: I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 What the heck are you talking about? How does that relate in any way to the post you are quoting? In my reading of this, it's Mark's response to the video's suggestion that this product is an "improvement" in the speaker market (or technology). The first company that can take the typical 1-3% driver efficiency and turn it into 25% will have the world eating out of their hand and be made rich beyond their wildest dreams. Hell, even 10% would turn some heads... I doubt any of us will see this in our lifetimes. This will be a "real" improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 i bet we could do that if we just moved some decimals over a couple places or something like banks do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 In my reading of this, it's Mark's response to the video's suggestion that this product is an "improvement" in the speaker market (or technology).The first company that can take the typical 1-3% driver efficiency and turn it into 25% will have the world eating out of their hand and be made rich beyond their wildest dreams. Hell, even 10% would turn some heads... I doubt any of us will see this in our lifetimes. This will be a "real" improvement. Correct. Even fractions of a percent is a market edge... but generally (well almost universially) there's caviots (fine print either expessed or implied) concerning those fractions of a percent. Fractions of a percent improvement without caviots would be (in my opinion) something to scoot up and take notice of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 Correct.Even fractions of a percent is a market edge... but generally (well almost universially) there's caviots (fine print either expessed or implied) concerning those fractions of a percent. Fractions of a percent improvement without caviots would be (in my opinion) something to scoot up and take notice of. caveats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted August 30, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 With 2000 watts and output about the same as my 350W 310A's I'm guessing efficiency wasn't on the top of the priority list for these LOL . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldschooler Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 Yah, I sure want to buy products controlled by the Russian Mob . Dude, where do you come up with this stuff? I have no idea where you are coming from? Any how, I do not understand how you are bashing a product that is not even out yet. It might be bad advertising or what not, but still I have no idea where some of your comments come from sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 Dude, where do you come up with this stuff? I have no idea where you are coming from? Any how, I do not understand how you are bashing a product that is not even out yet. It might be bad advertising or what not, but still I have no idea where some of your comments come from sometimes. well its made by mackie, thats why; the AMC pacer of audio (note i did not say pro audio) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted August 30, 2012 Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 well its made by mackie, thats why; the AMC pacer of audio (note i did not say pro audio) For the benefit of those of you under 40. This is was our family car in 1975-76. I think we had "the fishbowl" all of a year before it started falling apart and my dad traded it in for something else. He should have learned his lesson after owning Javelin in 1974, which also started to self destruct shortly after purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted August 30, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 30, 2012 Dude, where do you come up with this stuff? I have no idea where you are coming from? Any how, I do not understand how you are bashing a product that is not even out yet. It might be bad advertising or what not, but still I have no idea where some of your comments come from sometimes.I'm bashing the marketing - the product could actually be decent. I doubt them 12" subs are gonna be pumping out the bass drops to 300 people though LOL . I actually have a "thing" for coaxial speakers - my home HiFi speakers are coaxial (KEF Infinity Q's over a JBL sub) and I carry 8 coaxial monitors. I do wish Mackie had a 10" version too but we'll see how they sound when they are available . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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