To those who don't learn songs by ear.

[gschmittling]

Great story Garrett! Yeah I hear Brad is a tweaker. He is one of the Dr Z Disciples (as am I!) so I am not surprised to hear him doing stuff like that. I am surprised to hear Brad isnt a jazz guy at all. He does a pretty good job of it on the Les Paul tribute on play. Jazz, Blues & Country all share the same roots so I am not surprised he can make the switch.

 

 

Dr. Z's are my FAVORITE amp, once I got one, I don't need another amp. His Les Paul tribute is spot on. When I heard him playing that, it didn't really click with what the keyboard player said. He's such a monster player though, I'm sure he can play whatever. Some of his legato licks in that stuff has been on my list for a long time, but I think it's time to invest in "transcribe" when I start with that stuff. The little country licks I do know is like a blend between jazz and blues, but not a fusion vibe. The way I look at it is it's the feeling of blues (with that spank!) with the chord tone and changes approach of jazz. I'm a tele player with a Maz18NR, so I actually have the tone (if I want it), all I need is the playing.

 

 

To actually be on topic, I think tab on the internet is awful. Ultimate guitar is the only tab resource I recommend. If I have to learn a song in a pinch, I'll sometimes listen to the song and look at the tab/chords and correct them as I go, like Mike. Very rarely do you find a flawless tab, and a lot of the times the chords are labeled wrong. The good thing with the guitar magazines is they're usually pretty good, so that's better at least. It's often hard for beginners to start transcribing but if you start easy with simple stuff, start with the bass notes and move on forward. The key is to do it often. My motto is nothing in music is hard... just unfamiliar. There is no better teacher than the music you listen to.

[TrickyBoy]

Two things:

The first is a question. Is it even possible to write a song or even a solo without a good ear? I mean how do you play what you hear in your head without a good ear. IMO the answer is you don't. You can only ever be a technician without a good ear.

Point two. A fun game I play is to listen to a song a few times in the car and then figure out the rhythms and solos without having the song there. My rationelle is this: If I can sing a solo in my head, I should be able to play it.

Granted I play in a cheesy party band, but it's fun to come to practice and have someone else say "We should play XXXX" and then without getting out an iPod, figure the tune out and run through it.

[TrickyBoy]

I always figure, those who don't learn...don't learn. Everything you learn is part of the big picture. I think the most important thing is hanging out with players who can already play, and who 'get it'. I think this is why there are so many decent guitarists out there who started out as drummers, because they got to hang around guitarists. In some cases good guitarists. You can learn stuff wrong whether it's by ear or out of a book your whole life...but unless you run into someone who's playing it right, you could very well still be left in the dark playing half ass'ed renditions of stuff you didn't hear or read correctly, or the parts you gave up on or just "called it good".

 

 

I agree with this, but I'll add one caveat. The Genesis for some of the best original stuff I wrote began with trying to figure out something that was beyond me. Sure I couldn't get it, and I knew that. But just the act of trying to work it out started the creativity flowing and led to my taking my half-assed rendition and running with it.

 

I guess the key is that I KNEW that my half assed rendition was wrong.

[Virgman]

In a book about Van Halen I read, Eddie said his "covers" of popular songs the band would play at their early gigs were not true.

 

He learned them by ear and did the best he could but they were not "right".

 

I'm not advocating bastardizing songs but don't get paralyzed if you can't figure something out exactly. Do the best you can and move on.

[gennation]

I agree with this, but I'll add one caveat. The Genesis for some of the best original stuff I wrote began with trying to figure out something that was beyond me. Sure I couldn't get it, and I knew that. But just the act of trying to work it out started the creativity flowing and led to my taking my half-assed rendition and running with it. I guess the key is that I KNEW that my half assed rendition was wrong.

 

 

That's exactly what I'm saying. Whether you get by ear or by book, it can still be half assed...and you may or may not know it...but if you hang with someone who's got it right, then there is no mistake...and you can excel faster...and not have it half-assed.

[3shiftgtr]

Ok, here's a story I tell to some of my students about how important working your ear is. It is very personal and all about me.

It's the 80's and I'm in my mid 20's. A hobbyist. Totally self taught. I wasn't in a band at the time so I set a goal to learn a (Dixie) Dregs tune. They had been my favorite band since high school so what the hell, let's give it a try. Cruise Control was up first. Here's the song for those not familiar.

[YOUTUBE]

[/YOUTUBE]

My skill level at the time was that I could play minor scale and barre chord/power chord stuff pretty good, but I didn't know my modes, couldn't read, etc. NEVER played in major! My technique was O.K., as I could play Rush tunes and some Van Halen but nothing on the "other level" (Morse, Holdsworth, DiMeola etc.) and my ear was pretty weak. If it didn't fit in what I know, I couldn't find it.

So off I went. The first chord of the tune was this:

e----3---
b----1---
g----0---
d----3---
a---------
e--------

I was stuck. This Fadd9 threw me DOWN! Suddenly I had to ZONE IN on the intervals. I couldn't flub around the scales and chord shapes I knew. Never had to identify intervals INSIDE a chord before. I heard the C and the G but couldn't find the rest cuz I was playing them the 5th and 8th fret of the g and b string and it was KILLING me! After several hours I was ready to quit. Feeling really sorry for my self.

But something in me said "{censored} YOU YOU WUSSY! QUIT ACTING LIKE A WHINY BITCH. KEEP WORKING."

It is sad to admit that it took me 4 days of 1 hour a day work to find that voicing. On the last day I made a commitment that this is either the first song of the rest of my musical life, or the last. And if I die at 90, I'll still be trying to find that chord. ON MY OWN THANK YOU.

Well I got it. Whew. Here was the next part:

e--------------------------
b---3--------6--6--3------
g---3h4------7--5--3h4---
d---3--------8--7--3------
a-------------------------
e-------------------------

This may sound ridiculous, but these voicings were not in my vocabulary. Dominant was not in my wheelhouse. The only thing I got right away was the Bb major triad. This section took me another week of 1 hour practices. I was seriously doubting whether I would ever amount to anything on this damn instrument. I was convinced that there were geniuses like Morse, and then the rest of us. About 10 hours of work for something like 1 into chord and a 5 second riff. pfft.

But something said "It took you 1 week to find one chord. Then it took you a week to find 4. That is progress." So I strengthened my resolve.

I then figured out the melody that goes in between the chords above and learned how to play both at the same time. That took another week or 2. Then came the next chord section. And I sh*t you not, that took almost 3 months. Even tho I had snagged little bits and pieces of the tune during this time, that section almost broke my back. I seriously contemplated quitting music, playing and listening, forever. Here's the first part of it:

e-----------------------------6------------------------10-----
b---6----8------11--13-------6--8--6---------11--13--11--11--
g---6h7--8-----10---10----------8--6tr7------10--10--10--10--
d---6----8------12--10----------8--6---------12--10------13--
a--------------------12---------------------------12------10--
e------------------------------------------------------------

Not that hard, right? But finding those staccato, chopped chords with my ear threw me for a loop. But it forced my ear to COME ALIVE. I had to concentrate like I had never done before. I had no idea even what KEY the song was in. My knowledge was no help. And when I say 3 months, I'm not kidding. So now I am into 4 months of working on this song. No help from anyone or any books. Just me and the record.

Well, 3 months later I could play the whole song, solo and all. 7 months total. YA DAMN STRAIGHT. Then I took off after Refried Funky Chicken. And it took me only a month and a half. Then Twiggs Approved only took me 3 weeks. My ear was officially open for business. It was the early 80's and I started whacking some Yngwie (he was new back then), and some old Mahavishnu, and whatever else I felt like slogging thru. KUZ I KNEW I COULD DO IT!!!!

And then it hit me. It takes work. Real, frustrating work. The guys I idolized have done the work. So I can do anything I want on the instrument, it just takes time. And so can everyone else. And that realization came from trying to ear out Cruise Control. Hell, it changed my life!

I love your sentiment, Mo'. NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING is better for the improvement of your musicianship than to sit down with something that is over your head, and getting it under your fingers BY USING YOUR EAR.

[jonPhillips]

So this is how this forum works? Instead of offering people tabs to songs you douchebags tell them to learn the songs by ear.

Still my favourite running gag in the Loft...

[Jasco]

Great story 3shiftgtr!

I too remember the song that I sludged through come hell-or-high-water until I finally got it, and in the process improved my listening skills, and maybe more importantly, my confidence in my listening skills.

[mosiddiqi]

 

Great story 3shiftgtr! I too remember the song that I sludged through come hell-or-high-water until I finally got it, and in the process improved my listening skills, and maybe more importantly, my confidence in my listening skills.

 

 

What was it as a matter of interest Jasco?

 

Mine was "Child In Time" from the live "Deep Purple Made in Japan" album..I took months and months to work out each 4 bar phrase of Blackmore's solo..and then several more months to be able to stitch them all together. Damn, it felt good.

[Jasco]

What was it as a matter of interest Jasco?

 

 

It was an old traditional Celtic tune called Gravel Walk.

[jeremy_green]

3shift - I completely relate to that story! Funny enough my song was "Cruise Control" (by you guessed it Steve Morse!). Damn that song nearly killed me but it opened up life in a whole new way - like you.

 

This is the part I think most people don't get. I always hear "my ear isnt as good" or "i tried and just couldnt do it" or "I dont know where to start". All of these statements are non-enablers. "It is hard" therefore "I can't"

 

Some of the HARDEST times with the instrument were the ones spent trying to lift something over my head. But all those experiences have accumulated bringing my ear to where it is today.

 

People CAN do this. his is not something only "naturals" can do. I have experimented with this with my kids and with students over the years. This CAN be done. If people approached it with this mindset I think they would surprise themselves with what they can accomplish. I am able to pull things today that I would have NEVER thought possible.

[jeremy_green]

Dr. Z's are my FAVORITE amp, once I got one, I don't need another amp. His Les Paul tribute is spot on. When I heard him playing that, it didn't really click with what the keyboard player said. He's such a monster player though, I'm sure he can play whatever. Some of his legato licks in that stuff has been on my list for a long time, but I think it's time to invest in "transcribe" when I start with that stuff. The little country licks I do know is like a blend between jazz and blues, but not a fusion vibe. The way I look at it is it's the feeling of blues (with that spank!) with the chord tone and changes approach of jazz. I'm a tele player with a Maz18NR, so I actually have the tone (if I want it), all I need is the playing. To actually be on topic, I think tab on the internet is awful. Ultimate guitar is the only tab resource I recommend. If I have to learn a song in a pinch, I'll sometimes listen to the song and look at the tab/chords and correct them as I go, like Mike. Very rarely do you find a flawless tab, and a lot of the times the chords are labeled wrong. The good thing with the guitar magazines is they're usually pretty good, so that's better at least. It's often hard for beginners to start transcribing but if you start easy with simple stuff, start with the bass notes and move on forward. The key is to do it often. My motto is nothing in music is hard... just unfamiliar. There is no better teacher than the music you listen to.

 

 

I should have bought the Maz18 - I got the 38 which sounds soooo good but is too loud for most of my applications. Dr Z is THE MAN. Love his gear.

 

In my experience Internet Tabs are almost useless.

 

Garrett do yourself a favour - get Transcribe. I am definitely not a company shill. I did without it for years (despite hearing great reviews) and only recently got it. It is absolutely awesome. It has sped up my ability to get the parts exponentially with the user friendly way it works.

 

The speed reduce thing is cool but for me the real coolest part has been the ability to very quickly loop the part I am working on.

[gennation]

Learning by ear has never been a problem. Later in years it's remember what I learned that is the most challenging.

 

In my current gig I'll learn about 30 tunes a weekend to roll out a new show rehearsal. These days I write EVERYTHING out and leave nothing to memory except what sinks in.

 

Plus, a year down the road when we've learned 300 (easily 300 tunes a year) and the leader calls one out we haven't played for months, I have chords and lines ready to pull out and play on the spot.

 

Actually, keeping a book that size in order it the biggest challenge, I'll have to post pics as I need to arrange it this weekend for a road trip. Right now it's a 4" binder and and about 5 "specialty packs" customized for certain shows (tribute shows, story shows, etc...). I do need to get a pic of it all, it's a goldmine.

[Virgman]

How can you learn 30 tunes in a weekend?

 

Wow!

 

Can you play these without leadsheets?

[gennation]

How can you learn 30 tunes in a weekend? Wow! Can you play these without leadsheets?

 

 

I've just always been a quick learner, and precise. I remember when I decided to quit wasting my time starting bands and instead started joining established bands (around '80 or '81) the first established band I auditioned for gave me two tapes with 40 tunes and said to learn 7 tunes in 3 days for the audition. I learned them all. I went to the audition and when they said 'what tunes did you pick?' I said 'all of them'. They laughed and then started busting my balls picking tunes across their setlist. I was ready for everyone of the 25 or so they called. And assured them I was ready for the 15.

 

Needless to say I got that gig at the audition. They canned their guitarist that next day and I played what was supposed to be his last gig that weekend.

 

 

That's just the way I am...I love to learn.

[MuyLoCo444]

I agree with Mo on this, about learning by ear I mean. I downloaded the free trial period version of Transcribe, and I must admit it is really important in using this to develop your ear. I still practice my scales regularly, but transcribe has made my whole life a lot easier, especially with solos played at warp speed. I would love to be able to play the stuff I hear in my head on the guitar.

[gennation]

Nowadays with all the resources available, I can trim all a full day off learning what I did in the 70's and 80's. And when in doubt I'll hit a tab site or even better, youtube, I'll just watch the guy play it.

 

There is so many wrong tabs and cats on youtube who show things wrong that it not only helps your ear but it builds your confidence too in know how many guys out there are playing something wrong.

 

My ears have paid A LOT of dues over the last 30+ years, and they're loving the kind of accessibility there is today!

[atarilovesyou]

Here's my experience with this. I learned how to play the guitar in the early 90's via tab in mags like GW and GFTPM. I had no idea how to play before that...none. All I knew was if I put my fingers where they told me, it sounded right. While I didn't know how to play the guitar, I had a good ear in that if I heard something that was 'wrong', I could tell...if the tab wasn't right, I could hear it and would set off to find out if the tab was wrong, or perhaps I had mis-interpreted the lick.

I was a huge Rhoads fan, but couldn't find any tabs. So when I went to one of my five or so 'lessons' (basically hanging with a good guitarist), I asked him if he could play the intro to Crazy Train. The next week he had it for me...well, not the into but the chords for the verse. It blew my mind that he could figure that out...it was over a decade before I realized what chord inversions were and how they applied to that verse, but at the time I couldn't even tell you what KEY Crazy Train was in! And I thought that anybody who could, back then, must have been gifted.

I have no use for {censored}ty internet tabs. I have a HUGE collection of good tab books. I even keep a few of the crappy ones just for my amusement and as a reminder that these are simply INTERPRETATIONS, not 'the real deal' so to speak.

I've slowed music down with all kinds of software, and picked apart certain licks (Vai and Van Halen) until I was certain that what I was playing was good enough to my ears. The tabs alone are not enough...I found that out after learning a lot of licks were wrong not because of the notes, but the timing I used.

There is a certain amount of theory that is required for someone to effectively ear train alone. My suggestion is a good teacher, not to pound out something for seven months. If you can't afford one, you put your efforts into getting the money to get one. And books, of course.

Unless you're a natural, simply slowing down songs and trying to figure out things like chords if you know NOTHING about their structure is at best inefficient, and at worst so difficult as to cause newbs to quit. Just my opinion.

[Virgman]

Here's my experience with this. I learned how to play the guitar in the early 90's via tab in mags like GW and GFTPM. I had no idea how to play before that...none. All I knew was if I put my fingers where they told me, it sounded right. While I didn't know how to play the guitar, I had a good ear in that if I heard something that was 'wrong', I could tell...if the tab wasn't right, I could hear it and would set off to find out if the tab was wrong, or perhaps I had mis-interpreted the lick. I was a huge Rhoads fan, but couldn't find any tabs. So when I went to one of my five or so 'lessons' (basically hanging with a good guitarist), I asked him if he could play the intro to Crazy Train. The next week he had it for me...well, not the into but the chords for the verse. It blew my mind that he could figure that out...it was over a decade before I realized what chord inversions were and how they applied to that verse, but at the time I couldn't even tell you what KEY Crazy Train was in! And I thought that anybody who could, back then, must have been gifted. I have no use for {censored}ty internet tabs. I have a HUGE collection of good tab books. I even keep a few of the crappy ones just for my amusement and as a reminder that these are simply INTERPRETATIONS, not 'the real deal' so to speak. I've slowed music down with all kinds of software, and picked apart certain licks (Vai and Van Halen) until I was certain that what I was playing was good enough to my ears. The tabs alone are not enough...I found that out after learning a lot of licks were wrong not because of the notes, but the timing I used. There is a certain amount of theory that is required for someone to effectively ear train alone. My suggestion is a good teacher, not to pound out something for seven months. If you can't afford one, you put your efforts into getting the money to get one. And books, of course. Unless you're a natural, simply slowing down songs and trying to figure out things like chords if you know NOTHING about their structure is at best inefficient, and at worst so difficult as to cause newbs to quit. Just my opinion.

 

 

Many good points I can agree with.

[The Extremist]

I've just always been a quick learner, and precise. I remember when I decided to quit wasting my time starting bands and instead started joining established bands (around '80 or '81) the first established band I auditioned for gave me two tapes with 40 tunes and said to learn 7 tunes in 3 days for the audition. I learned them all. I went to the audition and when they said 'what tunes did you pick?' I said 'all of them'. They laughed and then started busting my balls picking tunes across their setlist. I was ready for everyone of the 25 or so they called. And assured them I was ready for the 15. Needless to say I got that gig at the audition. They canned their guitarist that next day and I played what was supposed to be his last gig that weekend. That's just the way I am...I love to learn.

 

 

yo thats balla kid

[1001gear]

Take 2

 

[GtrProductions]

Also just for the appreciation of music. I have such a deeper respect for music and its workings when I learn things by ear.

[startagain]

My ear will tell me if a tab is wrong, but I'm pretty much a talent free zone and to learn right from scratch would take way too long. So I start with a tab, and refer that back to how the music really sounds.

The internet is turning out to be a great tool, I'm picking up guitar after a long lay off, and in a week I already understand things that years of hanging out didn't show me last time. Could be that I was young and a lousy listener last time too.

[jeremy_green]

startagain do yourself a favour man, start using your ears to figure stuff out. It is hard yes but I believe avoiding trying will only make it never possible. Start with some really obvious power chord lines (like Sabbath) and learn to pick them out. The key to it is understanding what is a "simple" song and always trying stuff in your range of abilities.

 

To play really well you MUST HAVE good ears. All the technique training in the world wont get you there IMO. I have never understood why many who REALLY want to be better avoid doing this. It is a critical part of the process.

 

Make TAB step 2 (checking your work) if you must.

 

Seriously dude - do it!

THEN buy me beer : )

[Jasco]

...to learn right from scratch would take way too long.

 

 

I'm with Jeremy here. Using your ears to learn is really important. You may think it takes a long time at first, but it will ultimately be your quickest path to improvement.