To those who don't learn songs by ear.

[jeremy_green]

guys, here is what i don't get.

 

I taught myself to play almost entirely from picking out melodies. It wasnt some advanced concept.

 

The VERY first thing I learned was Smoke on the water - just the riff on the E string (wrong). I enjoyed that so i started looking for other lines like that i could manage. Sabbath was a plethora of slow easy clear lines. So I picked through their stuff as one liners. Then I saw a photo of a guy holding a power chord - so I tried it. Low and behold it sounded cool. So I turned those one liners into power chord lines.

 

Zeppelin, Priest (breaking the law was a blast) Anvil (Metal on Metal was my first successful power chord tune) along with myriads of nursery rhymes commercials and any other thing that seemed like a clear melody.

 

All of a sudden the world opened up to me and i started picking out song after song using just this method. I wasnt advanced at all! I sucked arse.

 

This is what I am getting at - this isnt hard IF and only IF you start with the right materials. You need to understand what you might be able to lift.

 

Playing the lines your figure out IS playing the guitar isnt it??

[GreenAsJade]

This is like the m*** discussion.

 

I tried to say that there is an easier way to *start* than the "usual" way these are presented. People howled me down - the idea that there's a best way to teach these and it should be applied to all levels seemed to rule.. I'm still brooding on that

 

Similarly here, I agree with b_a that it will be a more unusual person who *starts* guitar by learning by ear. Sure, some people can, as witness Jeremy

 

However, in terms of "advice for a beginner", I think that "learn to play these chords, and _here_, here is how smoke on the water goes, cool eh?" is better than "Here's a record, here's a guitar". Better for your average learner.

 

Once the first level of confidence is achieved, then learning by ear is what we're all raving about, but in the limited context of "advice for beginners", my experience has been that building some fretboard confidence first seems to take hold better.... I don't see why one piece of advice should fit all stages...

 

GaJ

[jeremy_green]

Again, not arguing just discussing.

Jade don't you think possibly we are putting this kind of thing on a bit of a pedestal?

 

OK maybe many people don't learn to play how I did - fine. But I think the concept that this is an advanced concept is misleading. Many raw beginners I have taught typically figure out some little melodies on their own. Actually MOST do this.

 

Can you figure out twinkle twinkle little star on your own? I'd be many people could do that given time. Well what is the difference between that and say Iron man as a single note line?

 

I am not pushing or saying my way is right just offering up a possibly different perspective. Many people are intimidated to TRY... I think they are over thinking it.

 

I learned that way because I HAD NO OTHER OPTION. My parents were broke, I had no lessons - just me a guitar and some time on my hands and most importantly an adventurous spirit. I HAD NO IDEA what I was doing was odd. I just found it fun picking out melodies.

[bigboy78]

Slightly off topic, but Jeremy's post reminded me of this.

When my first son was born my brother bought him a little toy keyboard. One day I get home from work and my wife, who has no musical inclination at all, was all excited and couldn't wait to show me what she'd done.

Out comes the little toy keboard and, proud as punch, she played Mary Had a Little Lamb and Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. It had taken her most of the day to pick it out, but I was suitably impressed.

[jeremy_green]

Thanks bigboy! Great example - this is my point. Many people CAN do that. MOST people do have the ability to hear and find notes. That was EXACTLY how I learned to play. I just kept at it. Before too long I was a hell of a lot quicker at it and slowly more accurate.

[mosiddiqi]

 

I am going to give this a go (my ear is truely crap so it will be a lot of work). So Iron Man and Paranoid are good tracks to start with? Any other suggestions from bands/artists like Smashing Pumpkins, Kiss , Def Leppard, Jimi Hendrix, Pearl Jam, Guns n Roses, etc? The other difficulty for me is that if I only have an hour in an evening to get some guitar work in, it is hard to make myself NOT play the guitar.. Still, got to be worth working it into my routine.

 

 

"Alive" and "Alive II" are GREAT for picking out lots of stock rock licks/riffs. Have a go at "Strutter", great riff, not too hard to pick out by ear, and then when you feel ready, try the solo..again, it's not too hard, but will give you a workout for sure, especially if you really try and nail Ace Frehley's vibrato and feel.

[quarky]

Hey thanks, good tip on the Alive CD's and Strutter. Once I get through Paranoid (in a year the way things are going ), I will give it a go. Hell, I might even give it a go sooner!

The advice and encouragement is much appreciated!

EDIT: Sorry one question though, is that not recorded half a step down or something? If so, it is going to be a bitch because I don't have a tuner to go down half a step yet.. I heard that KISS now play standard tuning a lot so perhaps a more recent show would have some of those songs in standard?

[mcmurray]

It's easy to fall into the trap (if you're a thinking kind of guy!) of thinking that music starts with the written rules and the notation, which you then have to convert into sound (using whatever technical skills you can develop). Wrong - it's the other way round. Music starts and ends as sound. The theory (the names for all the sounds) are only a way of letting us talk - or write - about them; and somewhat imperfectly at that. It's a common problem resulting from the way music is (or has been) normally taught in schools. We're encouraged (culturally) to believe that Great Music is something written by a composer (a god-like "Genius") whose Scripture we must obey to the letter, otherwise it is "imperfect". This is an attitude peculiar to European high culture of the last few centuries (in fact mainly the 19th century). Elsewhere in the world (and in Europe in other eras) music was learned by ear, and understood by ear. There were no "composers" - there were only "musicians". And that tradition is - or should be - alive and well in modern vernacular ("folk") musics such as blues and rock.

Bloody well said Jon

I couldn't agree with you more.

[mosiddiqi]

Hey thanks, good tip on the Alive CD's and Strutter. Once I get through Paranoid (in a year the way things are going ), I will give it a go. Hell, I might even give it a go sooner! The advice and encouragement is much appreciated! EDIT: Sorry one question though, is that not recorded half a step down or something? If so, it is going to be a bitch because I don't have a tuner to go down half a step yet.. I heard that KISS now play standard tuning a lot so perhaps a more recent show would have some of those songs in standard?

 

It is a half step down..but if you use something like "Transcribe"..you can change the pitch to standard tuning..and then still slow it down to whatever speed you like.

[jeremy_green]

Hey thanks, good tip on the Alive CD's and Strutter. Once I get through Paranoid (in a year the way things are going ), I will give it a go. Hell, I might even give it a go sooner! The advice and encouragement is much appreciated! EDIT: Sorry one question though, is that not recorded half a step down or something? If so, it is going to be a bitch because I don't have a tuner to go down half a step yet.. I heard that KISS now play standard tuning a lot so perhaps a more recent show would have some of those songs in standard?

Hey Quarky,

This is why if I were you I would start with Iron Man. The riff is slow and clear. The best part - the very beginning is a bend of the open E string (behind the nut push down with your finger and slowly release). For tuning to it wait for that bend to settle and tune your low string to that. Then tune up the rest of the guitar relative to it. The whole album is at that tuning.

[GreenAsJade]

If you grab Transcribe, you can play it back using Transcribe at a semitone (or any other amount) higher than the original recording, and learn it at your guitar's tuning

 

GaJ

[jeremy_green]

If you grab Transcribe, you can play it back using Transcribe at a semitone (or any other amount) higher than the original recording, and learn it at your guitar's tuning GaJ

True - but it is a good skill to learn how to orient yourself tuning-wise without gizmos. Open strings are almost always the give-aways. You can hear them after a while.

The only time I find re-tuning is a major drag is with floating trems.

[GreenAsJade]

I went through a phase of being willing to retune for different tunes, and learned all sorts of interesting Led Zep at that time. I even had a cycle of pieces in different tunings, sorted out to minimise the changes from one to the next. Then suddenly I got sick to death of retuning ...

 

I'm very happy to move Mary Had A Little Lamb up to E to learn it, even if it does demasculate (word?) Stevie just slightly

 

GaJ

[bigboy78]

the word is emasculate.

 

emasculate

verb [ trans. ]

make (a person, idea, or piece of legislation) weaker or less effective : our winner-take-all elections emasculate fringe parties like neo-Nazis.

 

[jeremy_green]

I went through a phase of being willing to retune for different tunes, and learned all sorts of interesting Led Zep at that time. I even had a cycle of pieces in different tunings, sorted out to minimise the changes from one to the next. Then suddenly I got sick to death of retuning ... I'm very happy to move Mary Had A Little Lamb up to E to learn it, even if it does demasculate (word?) Stevie just slightly GaJ

Jade, I wasnt really directing that directly at you - more at less experienced readers. Of which there could be many. I am sure by your playing that you are more than capable of retuning. If it sounded like I implied otherwise it was unintentional.

The thing I can never really get over is the desire for short cuts - I don't believe in them. In fact i believe most of them undermine good solid learning. With learning to master an instrument EVERY stone needs to be flipped over - least as many of them that you can find. Hell even tuning can teach you subtle nuances about the way your guitar handle tension change!

(this rant is directed at anyone who is SERIOUS about wanting to get good - not hobbyists who just want to riff out a bit)

This is where my brain short circuits.
You see I always assume people actually WANT to improve. Avoiding "work" seems completely counter productive to that end. Guitar NEVER feels like work. I don't dread transcribing a song (or retuning to do so) - I look forward to it! I wish I had more time so I could do it more. I have always felt that way - even at the very start.

I seriously believe if people just stopped trying so hard to "make it easier" their playing would improve at a quicker rate.

Modern tools are great - but some features are best used after the basics are mastered IMO.

Wax on Wax off - and all dem Myagi-isms