RoboPimp's weekly boutique rant: What makes you so good?

[RoboPimp]

I see countless working musicians every weekend playing their asses off making good music. They sound great, they have great tone, blah blah. EVERY band I see, they ALL use "mass produced" gear. Fender, Gibson, Squier, Epiphone, Ibanez, Boss, Digitech, Line 6, EHX. I don't see a single "boutique" pedal ANYWHERE! Somehow they get by with this stuff and still get killer tone.

 

Yet I see people here all the time "I couldn't get a usable tone with XXX, then I got Magicman's boutique screeming tube ocverdrive and my tone was killer"

 

what makes you so "good" that you need a $300 dirt pedal to get your tone?

[bieke]

yup, I also had my ears tested earlier this year

[melx]

Because good musicians feel good about themselves and their music without having to look down and go 'wow, look at all my blue led's aren't they wonderful' or 'hey guys look at my pedal board, isn't it great?'.......or maybe they just have better things to spend their money on.....like beer and prostitutes.

[johanwastaken]

I agree about mass produced pedals, that they can indeed sound decent. However, it's likely that those big artists would sound better if they had boutique pedals.

 

With that being said, I also think that most boutique pedals are highly overhyped and rarely worth the $400 bucks they cost on Ebay.

[RoboPimp]

However, it's likely that those big artists would sound better if they had boutique pedals.

 

why is this likely?

 

*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*(you're a dolt, now go bye bye as I laugh at you)

[The Polymath]

Part of it is that these artists have endorsement deals with those huge companies . . . they may very well have used those boutique pedals in the studio or on stage, but YOU will never know about it

 

Part of it is that they're good enough that, sometimes their skill shines through their crappy tone. Some recording artists have better tone than others.

 

Part of it is that any overdrive or distortion pedal is either merely trying to emulate a certain something that's hard to pin down -- the interaction between guitar and a great tube amp -- or trying to produce something new and different (like a fuzz).

[mrweems]

I don't use a single boutique pedal on my board live now. I do have a hotcake on there. but id on't use it.

 

I've started having the mentality that you have. And i feel great about my board. And don't get me wrong i have another ooard with some boutique stuff on it for me to be a corksniffing bitch with. Just different flavors.

My main opinion on the topic is for people to be able to go out and play and have something someone has never seen before and ask them about it.

[johanwastaken]

 

why is this likely?

 

 

Because the diversity is from what I've seen much bigger among boutique pedals than "mass produced" ones.

[6StrngStrangler]

Nels Cline from Wilco has a rather corksniffery board. I think alot of musicans use mass produced pedals when they are on the road because they are easy to replace if something happends to them. They can just jog down to the nearest GC and pick up a replacement. I will admit tho, my lust for boutique pedal's have waned, and i have been paying more attention to my playing then chasing the latest and greatest pedal.

[friendlybunny]

My theory is that most amps sounds great at loud club volumes, so you don't really need a boutique OD when playing loud.

 

Another theory is that most professional musicians are poor, and would rather take the boss pedals to a club than their toneczar.

 

On the other hand, I live in Austin and I have seen at least 1 boutique type pedal at every show I have seen for the past couple of years. They are starting to catch on.

 

I have a growing boutique pedal collection, yet I use a boss OD3 and digitech pds2020 live. I use my nice pedals for recording and home wanking.

 

Also.... part of the problem for me has been the reliability of boutique pedals. I have had a couple of expensive pedals crap out on me live or on tour (bad true bypass switch, and a bad jack). My boss pedals can take some nasty abuse.

[dangerous dan]

I look forward to this thread every week

[mrweems]

Nels Cline from Wilco has a rather corksniffery board. I think alot of musicans use mass produced pedals when they are on the road because they are easy to replace if something happends to them. They can just jog down to the nearest GC and pick up a replacement. I will admit tho, my lust for boutique pedal's have waned, and i have been paying more attention to my playing then chasing the latest and greatest pedal.

 

[AuttumAttic]

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[TheGareth]

Whatever makes people happy is what they should use. If they want to spend lots on a pedal, and they're happy with their tone, then so be it! Mind you, I have said this before, there are a lot of guys who have very expensive rigs and they still sound awful.

[rocket34bg]

i think the problem is people's obsession with "tone" which is just some magical word that doesn't really mean anything.

 

i figure most real musicians aren't worried about tone as much as finding their sound. and i think you can get a lot more interesting sounds from the big brands.. and of course combine them with some crazy boutique items you find and you can do even more..

 

so i just think the whole tone thing is bs. tone is just something you get when you make interesting sounds that sound good along with other instruments or alone. it just kind of happens when you play music.

 

would a band sound better if they had different equipment? why would they? they obviously chose their equipment and their sound for a reason.

 

edit: i'm starting to think attumattic is... robopimp?

[Ben Co.]

"you oughta spend a little more time dealing with yourself and a little less time worrying about what your brother does"

[petejt]

Part of it is that these artists have endorsement deals with those huge companies . . . they may very well have used those boutique pedals in the studio or on stage, but YOU will never know about it Part of it is that they're good enough that, sometimes their skill shines through their crappy tone. Some recording artists have better tone than others. Part of it is that any overdrive or distortion pedal is either merely trying to emulate a certain something that's hard to pin down -- the interaction between guitar and a great tube amp -- or trying to produce something new and different (like a fuzz).

 

 

You're missing the fact that Robopimp is talking about "countless WORKING musicians", ie Joe Blow & teh Schmoes gigging down at the nearby pub on a Saturday night before the rave starts .

 

 

And it's true- I see the same sorts of musicians playing locally, with just common garden gear brands, and the tone is pretty damn good I gotta say.

 

 

He's not talking about big famous bands that headline Castle Donington concerts etc., who are the ones that get those endorsement deals.

 

 

 

I think it's mostly bedroom musicians that get fussy about their gear and THINK they hear flaws, therefore seek the most exclusive of boutique gear. They don't step back and listen to what they got for what it is, and realise it ain't actually that bad.

 

And I'll admit I've fallen into that. I haven't gig for over a year, and in that time have become very fussy about gear. Last night I realised I could pretty do all of my fancy schmansy chorus effects with just the Rockman Stereo Chorus in the fx loop of my MarkIV with one 4x12 cab and perform successfully with as much sweet chorus etc. that I want, no (important) need for big rigs and multiple pedals.

 

 

Of course I do like to indulge . Might be shameful , but why not? It's my hobby so I'll do what I like!

 

 

But another point too- the studio is a much more scrutinising environment than live performance. A tone can sound great live, but in the studio all the little flaws get accentuated. For instance- Kirk Hammett of Metallica uses ESP guitars when performing live, yet will use various Telecasters and Stratocasters in the studio.

[english_bob]

I saw three bands yesterday at an outdoor gig.

 

Band 1: 2x Gibson Les Pauls, 2x Marshall stacks (JCM800, TSL or DSL something)

 

Band 2: Vintage AV1 -> multi-fx -> Kustom QUAD head/cab (SS)

 

Band 3: Epi Les Paul -> Vox Valvetronix combo, PRS Custom 22 -> POS Marshall Valvestate combo

 

 

Who had the best tone? Band #2, the guy with the cheapest rig.

 

Same sound guy, same venue, same crowd, so no other explanation really. Band #1 and band #3 sounded bloody awful- ice-pick treble and overall crappy tone, band #2 (who may have had some sort of endorsement thing with Vintage- singer and bassist may have been using their stuff too) sounded great. I can only assume it's because they had worked hard on getting the best sound they could out of their equipment.

 

Would they have sounded even better with band #1's more expensive equipment? Maybe...

 

I still can't understand why you'd spend two grand on a PRS and play it through an ancient, beat-to-{censored}, horrible sounding old amp when spending half as much on a guitar would have got you an awesome instrument and left you with a sizeable budget for a good amp

[SylphCo.]

Power of suggestion. It's all in the mind. No, you cannot prove otherwise.

People buy expensive {censored} because they think they need it, often due to the emotionally-, not logically-appealing hype, and as a result it sounds better to them. Power of suggestion.

There is no such thing as "good tone," as separated from music, so an SD-1 has a sound equally valid as the Openhaus.

Other than the fact that perception of "tone" is related to the overall impression one has of a player, this is the same sort of bull{censored} that goes on amongst hi-fi enthusiasts (nutjobs.)

 

Check this out for a scientific look at some relevant hi-fi craziness.

 

Guitarists are a {censored}ing slow bunch, and I'm glad to say that I agree with RoboPimp on this issue.

[NetStar]

The only Booteek I own are Mellowtone and that is because he sells them a t sensible price for what they are. It is nothing to do with hype or indeed, Toan. I prefer Mellowtone's Singing Tree Over my SD-1. I am also more than happy to replace a buffered pedal with a TB Pedal.

 

(Note, I have about 10 other buffers on my board, no corksniffery here! It's just a case of whittling them down with good replacements.)

 

 

I also agree that at loud club volumes, everything sounds better.

 

I saw Two bands in one evening.

Elle Milano played a DS-1 (And Something that might have been an ODB-3 and a Big Muff) into an Orange.

The other, Untitle Musical Project, played a DS-1 into an ENGL.

 

AWESOME TOANZ

[starsailor803]

One reason might be that ANY rig just about sounds better at gig levels. Trying to dial in great sounds in the bedroom is a bit more challenging. You want to make everything sound BIG but you can't.

[IvIark]

Whilst I admit $900 for a Klon or $500 for a Mayo is bordering on mindless stupidity, I think Robo, you need to define your thinking on the term "boutique". I sit in the "if it sounds good to me I'll use it" camp and so I've got effects that are both mass produced and hand wired and I'm very happy with the diversity in what I've got. But you can't knock a pedal just because it's been hand made.

 

For instance, I just bought a Timmy and the nett cost to me after shipping and exchange was about

[Ben Co.]

Guitarists are a {censored}ing slow bunch, and I'm glad to say that I agree with RoboPimp on this issue.

Says the guy with a hand-painted SHO, a BoR, and a ReezaFRATzitz?

[HeartfeltDawn]

Most of my favourite albums feature guitarists using fairly stock pedals. They use Boss pedals, RATs, Fuzz Faces, basic wah-wah pedals, that kind of thing. Bernard Butler used pretty basic pedals on the first two Suede albums. The big thing is that a DS-1 used live through an AC-30 sounds different to a recording of a DS-1 used through in AC-30 in the recording studio. The tone a guitarist will hear is different to the end tone on tape. That taped tone goes through preamps (solid state or valve), it goes through expensive EQ, it might be altered in Pro Tools, it might go through a vintage mixing desk and end up on tape.

 

To me, a lot of boutique pedals are trying to get a higher fidelity sound for the live guitarist so his tones might match up to recorded tones that has had the studio processing treatment. Does that make sense? I'm trying to word this better but I can't because I'm feeling stupid this afternoon.

 

I don't think the rush of boutique pedals has helped make vastly better music. It's like digital recording: the technology keeps changing and improving and never gets pushed to the limit. Most of the finest music has come from pushing the technology available at the time to its limit. Something like Detroit techno came from pushing the {censored} out of drum machines. You don't get the same push of the technology now there's Pro Tools and limitless tracks and audio processing opportunities. To me, it's made songwriters lazy in that they don't try to innovate with their songwriting but would rather try and make their song distinctive with some plug-in. A band like the Flaming Lips stand out because the song is still the most important thing, not some plug-in audio trickery. They use the technology for the good of the song rather than using the song to show off technology.

 

It's similar with boutique stuff. Rather than writing a great hook, some people would rather buy something like a HOG or some massive delay effect that sounds good but ultimately is a nice pretty effect over a really crap song. A lot of the more post-rock stuff in the last few years has bored me because it's a selection of pretty effects and nothing else. Something like Tortoise's 'Millions Now Living Will Never Die' is full of effects and sounds but the songwriting is there and it never sounds like a bunch of effects stitched together.

[IRG]

I think the reason(s) are as this:

 

1) playing live makes less difference on the gear you own. The PA system and setup, and your playing ability makes the biggest difference.

 

2) Playing in a quiet (non live) setting/studio is where expensive gear pays bigger dividends. The higher quality components used do pay dividends here.

 

3) Many musicians that don't spend hours here every day, have little knowledge of the options available. If they did, they might spend a bit more on better gear, but often times the "it works for me" mentality wins out over what might actually be better.