OT: IT'S TIME... Who are you voting for ... ???

[Son of HuHefner]

Expect more racist posts by this poster.

that makes 2 agreements we have.

Pighood is a documented racist poster with numerous complaints filed here against his racist behavior on HC

End of story

[Yoozer]

An ever-decreasing ceiling for the definition of "rich".

You might be familiar with this little graph here:

 

 

Taxing small businesses (let alone large companies)

A business can spend and is then taxed on what's left.

 

penalties for producers of energy (the recent story on killing the coal industry is telling)

 

The thing is that McCain's proposed cap and trade system would have the same effect - make coal power more expensive year by year until they figure out how to make it clean, or they don't, and people stop building them.

 

Under such a system an energy company could try to open a new polluting coal plant, but it would probably bankrupt them.

 

That's not "killing", that's forcing them to get with the times and explore alternative energy sources.

[cruster]

...there is a little more nuance to the lesser of two evils choice in some cases...

Choosing the "lesser of two evils" is still making a conscious choice for evil. I think it's great that so many people are willing to express their belief in and support of evil. This is not directed at you specifically and no animosity is intended.

In any case, (though obviously this isn't an argument to vote as they do), people like Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn...

I don't particularly care what Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn have to say, but, thanks for sharing this:

...have both suggested that (while agreeing with your main points) voting for Obama will make a difference for some people.

And voting for McCain will make a difference for some other people. What is their point? That the people that Obama might help are more deserving than the people that McCain might help? Sounds rather judgmental to me.

So it comes down to a choice of helping them, or going for the long range strategy of voting for a 3rd party

I read this as "it comes down to a choice of voting for evil or not." It seems to me that a lot of voters have an investment in casting a "winning" vote. That is, they want their vote to go to the candidate who ultimately has a chance of winning the election. Third party candidates who arguably represent positions that are more in line with the citizenry do not stand a chance, therefore, the "must win" voters choose evil. Every time.

, or just refusing to participate in the charade. I think that both are legitimate choices in this election - but I don't think that it's fair to dismiss those who will hold their nose and vote for Obama.

I believe that the only vote that is wasted is the one not cast. I disagree that Obama and McCain are legitimate choices insofar as they represent dueling marketing divisions of the dominant party in the US. Thesis, antithesis, synthesis. The Hegelian dialectic played out in the public square, bald faced and most are unaware.

Wait, there're some lyrics there....

[Delicious Lamprey Problem]

Choosing the "lesser of two evils" is still making a conscious choice for evil. I think it's great that so many people are willing to express their belief in and support of evil.

The alternative is revolution, and they have the army.

[plaid_emu]

The alternative is revolution, and they have the army.

 

The Army is weak and stressed at this point. They're attempting to prepare for this scenario, but in reality it will mostly be foreign troops and/or private security firms called in to do the dirty work. They won't feel bad about shooting at us.

 

But remember there's 80 million gun owners in this country. They know if only 10% felt like participating it would be over in 24 hours. This has probably been the ONLY thing keeping us safe from hardcore tyranny the past 25 years. They have to settle on gradually increasing their power over a long period of time, forcing us to psychologically accept our servitude and relinquish our arms willingly.

[cruster]

The alternative is revolution, and they have the army.

The alternative to voting for "the lesser of two evils" is to vote for a "good" candidate. Of course, now we simply must segue into a metaphysical debate about the exact nature and definition of "good." Besides, revolutions come in many forms. Most are non-violent, or at least minimally violent and do not involve armies or armed uprising.

[Khazul]

but the strings lead different places.

You really beleive that? Do the committees get changed, the think tanks, chains of policy advisors etc etc.

Sure, he will have his chosen aids, immediate advisors etc, but the people with the direct links to enconomy, policy, military etc wont change - that needs a revolution.

[Cygnus64]

FFS - just shoot them both and have doen with it already! It doesnt matter anyway -

Whenever someone says "It doesn't matter", they should be locked in a room for 24 hours with eyelids propped a la Clockwork Orange, forced to watch video of George W Bush.

It matters. Palin would be much worse than Bush, and he was the worst president in history. Bush is living proof that "It matters".

[Delicious Lamprey Problem]

I'd say "it doesn't matter" because I believe the outcome is predetermined. Not in some spiritual sense, either.

[pighood]

Isn't China better than us anyway? That's what The One contends.

[YOUTUBE]I-IvjXnkHwA&NR[/YOUTUBE]

[Cygnus64]

I'd say "it doesn't matter" because I believe the outcome is predetermined. Not in some spiritual sense, either.

Explain.......

[droolmaster0]

If Obama is going to be POTUS I think it is only fair that he also have a filibuster-proof majority in both house and senate. So that Obama, Pelosi and Reid can work together, unchecked, to institute what policies they see fit- 1) no new drilling closer than 100 miles offshore (in other words 80% of known reserves are off limits) 2) carbon taxes on coal plants for the purpose of driving them out of business (the San Francisco Chronicle to thank for revealing this) 3) raising the highest marginal tax rates to 39%- because redistributing wealth to remedy income equality (which is manifestly UNFAIR) is more important than stimulating the economy or bringing money into government coffers, even in a recession. 4) troops withdrawn from Iraq immediately, and removal from command (or at least, diluting his authority) of the General Who Betrayed Us (by winning) 5) re-instituting the Fairness Doctrine, so HC can have a government-appointed Fairness Enforcer (I nominate Chick) 6) unauthorized investigations and public humiliation of any private citizen who displays hostility to the new administration. 7) because I know I left something out All Change is Good Change. And the more Extreme the Change, the Better. Don't judge Obama by what he has ever done (or not done), judge him by what he SAYS he will do. Because you can rest assured he is not lying to you just to get elected. Obama "08!

? for instance, he is not saying that he will withdraw troops from Iraq immediately. He will leave quite a few there, and he will escalate the war in Afghanistan. He is not anti-war in any meaningful sense. And some of your other stuff is just paranoid garbage, probably pulled from Fox News, or worse.

[droolmaster0]

Isn't China better than us anyway? That's what The One contends.

 

Have you ever posted anything remotely truthful? He's not saying that they are 'better' - he's saying that we should spend more money on infrastructure, or we will be adversely affected in the long haul.

[droolmaster0]

Whenever someone says "It doesn't matter", they should be locked in a room for 24 hours with eyelids propped a la Clockwork Orange , forced to watch video of George W Bush. It matters. Palin would be much worse than Bush, and he was the worst president in history. Bush is living proof that "It matters".

It's amazing isn't it? After listening to Palin for a couple of minutes, you start thinking of GWB as smart....

[Delicious Lamprey Problem]

Explain.......

Last time this came up and I tried to explain, someone threatened to call Homeland Security and a good time was not had by all.

I just think the underlying political machinery is much bigger than any given administration, and unprofitable elements are removed.

[droolmaster0]

Choosing the "lesser of two evils" is still making a conscious choice for evil. I think it's great that so many people are willing to express their belief in and support of evil. This is not directed at you specifically and no animosity is intended.

Well, I appreciate the no animosity part, however the sentiment is based on very bad logic. Under this logic, one should only ever vote for someone that is good in a very strong way, since ANY compromise would be voting for evil. So, even if there were much stronger differences between the candidates, anyone who vote for the 'lesser' side, would be voting for 'evil'. Voting for evil is a very vague concept, and you latch onto that as a way of slamming anyone who, in some instances, thinks that there are small differences that would help people. And that is what you miss - that unless a candidate is 100% good, you are voting for some evil, and consequently you'd really never be able to vote. There is always going to be a threshold in this system - at what point do I think that there is a difference that will matter to some people - enough to be worthwhile. So, what you're actually voting for is that slight bit of differential towards the good, and hoping that the evil will be lessened just a little. Posturing (as you are doing) doesn't really make your point. Logically, you have to articulate why it never accomplishes anything by voting for anything other than a perfect candidate....no animosity intended.

I don't particularly care what Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn have to say, but, thanks for sharing this:

Well, I'd guess that you don't care what anyone has to say, but thanks for sharing this.

And voting for McCain will make a difference for some other people. What is their point? That the people that Obama might help are more deserving than the people that McCain might help? Sounds rather judgmental to me.

Ok. That's a ridiculous argument. First you JUDGE good/evil in the first part of your post (this is a judgement right, or is it 'written' somewhere?), and then you criticize people for differentiating good/evil in their choice. Makes no sense and is totally contradictory. Obviously we judge who it is better to help - the rich and powerful, or the middle class and poor people. This is not an objective matter - these are our values, and quite obviously, the whole point here is that the Obama ticket will make SOME difference on the side of what (some of us) regard as good.

I read this as "it comes down to a choice of voting for evil or not." It seems to me that a lot of voters have an investment in casting a "winning" vote. That is, they want their vote to go to the candidate who ultimately has a chance of winning the election. Third party candidates who arguably represent positions that are more in line with the citizenry do not stand a chance, therefore, the "must win" voters choose evil. Every time.

One of the most incoherent posts I've read in a long time.

I believe that the only vote that is wasted is the one not cast. I disagree that Obama and McCain are legitimate choices insofar as they represent dueling marketing divisions of the dominant party in the US. Thesis, antithesis, synthesis. The Hegelian dialectic played out in the public square, bald faced and most are unaware.

Ah, I see - a failed philosophy student.

[droolmaster0]

that makes 2 agreements we have. Pighood is a documented racist poster with numerous complaints filed here against his racist behavior on HC End of story

I wasn't aware of the complaints. All I see is that he is obsessed with Obama's color, and brings it up repeatedly. Obviously, his connotation is negative, and I do find it offensive.

[piersonm]

Still voting for the reanimated corpse of Lincoln. ABE in 08!

[Delicious Lamprey Problem]

Damnit Diametro, see what you've done now?

[pighood]

Still voting for the reanimated corpse of Lincoln. ABE in 08!

Lincoln was TOTALLY incapable of steering weather at darkvolk.

[Cygnus64]

Last time this came up and I tried to explain, someone threatened to call Homeland Security and a good time was not had by all. I just think the underlying political machinery is much bigger than any given administration, and unprofitable elements are removed.

If your theory is correct, we will be looking at President McCain tomorrow. We'll know in 35 hours. Tic-toc, Clarice...

[Yoozer]

Isn't China better than us anyway?

Maybe you are afraid of a socialist welfare state. All those capitalist businesses which have been outsourcing like crazy aren't.

 

Criticism does not equal I HAET 'MERIKUH.

[grumphh]

Sizzle, international opinion of Mr. Bush has not had any effect, ever, on my travels. As I said, my observation is that overseas there is an anti-Bush sentiment, not an anti-American sentiment. And I am not Mr. Bush. Forgetting about tourism, because that's not what's really important here, do you believe there is any value to Americans, whatsoever, in having a president (and government in general) that is liked, admired, and respected by the governments and peoples in countries such as the UK, France, Italy, and Germany, just to name a few?

EEEEP! Italy does not have a respected government

[keybdwizrd]

EEEEP! Italy does not have a respected government

I didn't say it did.

[pighood]

Criticism does not equal I HAET 'MERIKUH.

Criticism of The One will be made illegal.